2016 GP Cyclistes: Québec et Montréal, Sep. 9 and 11

[SeriousSam]

Pleased to see the Gold Medalist managed to beat sagan.

 

[Anderis]

Holly crap, Bettiol top10 again. The guy is only 22 but has an impressive string of results recently.

Think he could have been on the podium if he didnt go for a 350-400 meter long headwind uphill sprint.

Yeah, I once thought it was Uran, who attacked (I got confused by the comentators), but the results clearly show it had to be Bettiol.

At least he tried to win instead of bringing home a safe 4th or so.

 

[SKSemtex]

I only watched the last 5 km, but damn that was exciting. Sagan with his old problem which cost him so many races this spring. Everyone expects him to close every gap but after that much work his sprint just isn't that good anymore so guys like GVA can beat him. Anyway I guess it's fair that Sagan won the first and Greg the 2nd race. Probably the two strongest guys there.

Sagan pulling a lot last two kilometeres. Typical Greg win against Sagan. You could see how superior is Sagan sprint compares to Greg at friday. But honestly I think that pursuivaints working together quite good. Sagan done most work though. Anyway that was a lot better race than Quebec as usual.

Van Avermaet is the stronger sprinter at the end of tough races with lots of climbing; always has been. Sagan can either work really hard in a race, or he can sprint well. He can't do both.

lol . Trolling?

No. He's clearly the better sprinter at the end of a hard race. At the end of a flat stage of a stage race, or a fairly easily ridden classic Sagan is way faster. At the end of a monument or tough, hilly race where Sagan have to work hard, GVA is better - always has been.

Fortunately Sagan also knows this; which is why he didn't wait for the sprint in his two big wins so far.

I fixed it for you.

 

[MichalJ]

Greg took an awful lot of pulls too and is now superior to Sagan whenever the race is hard. The Slovak's absence in Rio is quite significant about the fact he cannot climb anymore. 3 years ago he attacked on Polytech and held through, now he's not able to outsprint Greg. In Quebec Greg was just too badly positioned.

Too badly positioned?? :lol: He was right behind Sagan and couldn't follow at all

 

[trucido]

I only watched the last 5 km, but damn that was exciting. Sagan with his old problem which cost him so many races this spring. Everyone expects him to close every gap but after that much work his sprint just isn't that good anymore so guys like GVA can beat him. Anyway I guess it's fair that Sagan won the first and Greg the 2nd race. Probably the two strongest guys there.

Sagan pulling a lot last two kilometeres. Typical Greg win against Sagan. You could see how superior is Sagan sprint compares to Greg at friday. But honestly I think that pursuivaints working together quite good. Sagan done most work though. Anyway that was a lot better race than Quebec as usual.

Van Avermaet is the stronger sprinter at the end of tough races with lots of climbing; always has been. Sagan can either work really hard in a race, or he can sprint well. He can't do both.

lol . Trolling?

No. He's clearly the better sprinter at the end of a hard race. At the end of a flat stage of a stage race, or a fairly easily ridden classic Sagan is way faster. At the end of a monument or tough, hilly race where both riders have had to work hard, GVA is better - always has been.

Fortunately Sagan also knows this; which is why he didn't wait for the sprint in his two big wins so far.

I guess GvA missed the memo in G-W. I mean it must have be raced way to easy for him to miss the Vanmarcke/Cancellara/Sagan move no? Sagan also happened to win the sprint.

If it was raced 'hard' he would have definitely been there (and won).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Holly crap, Bettiol top10 again. The guy is only 22 but has an impressive string of results recently.

Think he could have been on the podium if he didnt go for a 350-400 meter long headwind uphill sprint.

Yeah, I once thought it was Uran, who attacked (I got confused by the comentators), but the results clearly show it had to be Bettiol.

At least he tried to win instead of bringing home a safe 4th or so.

Exactly, he was clearly strong enough to do that. These autumn races doesn't get much attention, but holy has he been money lately. He is top-20 WT ranking now - without a doubt the most unexpected on that list.

 

[Jagartrott]

Don't do this guys. Don't make this a Sagan vs. GVA feud.
They're both great attacking riders, that entertain the audience. Which makes me support both without caring who wins exactly. Strongest riders in Canada, both one win and one 2nd. Perfect.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Sagan pulling a lot last two kilometeres. Typical Greg win against Sagan. You could see how superior is Sagan sprint compares to Greg at friday. But honestly I think that pursuivaints working together quite good. Sagan done most work though. Anyway that was a lot better race than Quebec as usual.

Van Avermaet is the stronger sprinter at the end of tough races with lots of climbing; always has been. Sagan can either work really hard in a race, or he can sprint well. He can't do both.

lol . Trolling?

No. He's clearly the better sprinter at the end of a hard race. At the end of a flat stage of a stage race, or a fairly easily ridden classic Sagan is way faster. At the end of a monument or tough, hilly race where both riders have had to work hard, GVA is better - always has been.

Fortunately Sagan also knows this; which is why he didn't wait for the sprint in his two big wins so far.

I guess GvA missed the memo in G-W. I mean it must have be raced way to easy for him to miss the Vanmarcke/Cancellara/Sagan move no? Sagan also happened to win the sprint.

If it was raced 'hard' he would have definitely been there (and won).

He was dropped on the descent of Kemmelberg because of a trajectory error. He was strong.

 

[Mr.White]

Greg took an awful lot of pulls too and is now superior to Sagan whenever the race is hard. The Slovak's absence in Rio is quite significant about the fact he cannot climb anymore. 3 years ago he attacked on Polytech and held through, now he's not able to outsprint Greg. In Quebec Greg was just too badly positioned.

Yeah badly, he was on Sagan's wheel

 

[SKSemtex]

What a great work both from Roman and Rafael again.

 

[Keram]

Next chapter of great rivalry will be written at Eneco. If Greg is participating. Sagan is sure. I didn´t check parcours thought. I hope it will be good enough to show another epic battle of this two

 

[animir]

If Sagan wouldnt close the gap to Costa, he would probably beat GVA in the sprint for the second place. But Sagan was riding for the win.
OK, you can say GVA was smart and probably he was, but for me his win was not nice.

 

[Echoes]

Too badly positioned?? :lol: He was right behind Sagan and couldn't follow at all

No he definitely was not in his wheel at the start of the Quebec sprint. You had the same gap at start and finish. His fault though. He was in the wheel in Montreal. Difference in result is there.


By the way, Greg was back from sickness at Wevelgem, if I remember well.

 

[trucido]

He was dropped on the descent of Kemmelberg because of a trajectory error. He was strong.

I didn't see it, but it just sounds to me he was trying too hard on the descent to catch up.

In simpler terms, he wasn't good enough and got dropped.

 

[Echoes]

Re:

Next chapter of great rivalry will be written at Eneco. If Greg is participating.

He is but unmotivated due to the lack of Ardennes stages.

 

[Brullnux]

Nice win from GVA, Sagan worked hard but so did Greg. Greg probably stronger today, but it's right that they both won a race here in Canada. Actual tactics from Lampre was nice to see too, but Ulissi just wasn't fast enough. Moscon like usual, amazing. So glad Orica and Matthews came 4th. Actually pretty annoyed they cam so close but glad they didn't podium. Bettiol smashing these races too. Expected better from Alaphillippe, though. Isn't in great form right now.

 

[El Pistolero]

What more proof do you need that the cobbled classics have a better field, for one-day races, than the hilly classics?

Strade Bianche - Cancellara
Olympic Road Race - GVA
GP de Quebec - Sagan
GP Montreal - GVA

The likes of Valverde are lucky that the real big boys don't care for the Ardennes classics.

 

[F e r o x]

Van Avermaet was recovering from illness at Gent-Wevelgem (had to forfait E3!) and he still could follow the best up the Kemmelberg. So this was not your best example.

We've seen it many times, Sagan his sprint is totally gone when he works hard during a race. Van Avermaet produces the same sprint no matter how tough the race was.

And everybody knows Sagan is much faster on a flat easy sprint then GVA. This is not the discussion.


PS: I know Sagan likes to ride full gass, but this was just plain stupid. Every single one was pulling in that group. There was no reason to keep riding at the front for so long. It was like he wanted Van Avermaet to win.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

What more proof do you need that the cobbled classics have a better field, for one-day races, than the hilly classics?

Strade Bianche - Cancellara
Olympic Road Race - GVA
GP de Quebec - Sagan
GP Montreal - GVA

The likes of Valverde are lucky that the real big boys don't care for the Ardennes classics.

90% of cobbled riders would fail horribly at the ardennes and vice versa.

 

[trucido]

Re:

Van Avermaet was recovering from illness at Gent-Wevelgem (had to forfait E3!) and he still could follow the best up the Kemmelberg. So this was not your best example.

We've seen it many times, Sagan his sprint is totally gone when he works hard during a race. Van Avermaet produces the same sprint no matter how tough the race was.

And everybody knows Sagan is much faster on a flat easy sprint then GVA. This is not the discussion.


PS: I know Sagan likes to ride full gass, but this was just plain stupid. Every single one was pulling in that group. There was no reason to keep riding at the front for so long. It was like he wanted Van Avermaet to win.

Sagan is also returning from illness and back to road racing from MTB.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

What more proof do you need that the cobbled classics have a better field, for one-day races, than the hilly classics?

Strade Bianche - Cancellara
Olympic Road Race - GVA
GP de Quebec - Sagan
GP Montreal - GVA

The likes of Valverde are lucky that the real big boys don't care for the Ardennes classics.

90% of cobbled riders would fail horribly at the ardennes and vice versa.

I'm not talking about the 90% now am I? When's the last time you saw a climber or hilly classic specialist win a cobbled race? I just gave you 4 examples this year where a cobbled specialist won a hilly one-day race. Beating these so called "specialists" on their own terrain. Must be quite humiliating.

 

[MichalJ]

Too badly positioned?? :lol: He was right behind Sagan and couldn't follow at all

No he definitely was not in his wheel at the start of the Quebec sprint. You had the same gap at start and finish. His fault though. He was in the wheel in Montreal. Difference in result is there.


By the way, Greg was back from sickness at Wevelgem, if I remember well.

https://youtu.be/_-EH2mCE-nA?t=44m40s

Look at that again. At 150m to go he was on Sagan's wheel. He lost it there.

And Sagan was back from sickness here. What can you to say about that?

 

[Anderis]

Re: Re:

When's the last time you saw a climber or hilly classic specialist win a cobbled race?

25.03.2016

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=163617

 

[Valv.Piti]

I agree, riders like GVA, Sagan and Cancellara are a level above the riders who do well in the Ardennes generally, mainly because there isn't Bettini or Gilbert at the moment and the best Ardennes-rider probably is Valverde who has ridden 3 GT's this year and thus concentrates on completely other things. Not an overwhelming amount of star power, really.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

What more proof do you need that the cobbled classics have a better field, for one-day races, than the hilly classics?

Strade Bianche - Cancellara
Olympic Road Race - GVA
GP de Quebec - Sagan
GP Montreal - GVA

The likes of Valverde are lucky that the real big boys don't care for the Ardennes classics.

Valverde is the real big boy, whatever race he enters