2016 TdF, Stage 10: Escaldes-Engordany → Revel (197km)

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WillemS said:
Lance Armstrong said:
happytramp said:
Perfectly played by Matthews.
Wheelsucking last 30 kms. Yep, he played it to perfection.
Well, in a way, cycling is a team effort. They played the game, they won. Why whine?
I was reacting to "played perfectly by Matthews". He did nothing. Played perfectly by Durbridge and Impey. Wheelsuckers don't deserve any appreciation.
 
Nov 29, 2010
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Yea you can't fault the tactics of ORICA, played it as they should .. and it worked.

Still annoying though and doubt it will win many new fans.
 
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DFA123 said:
Krokro said:
I understand basic tactics and how Orica perfectly played it. But I surely can dislike that panache-less win. Anyway, great breakaway action at the end of the day.
Blame the other four guys then for not winning with panache. Everyone there knew what Orica's plan was and no-one did anything near enough to disrupt it. GVA, EBH or Sagan should have gone on a hard attack immediately after Impey had been brought back from one of his attacks - then we'd have seen what Matthews was made of.
In reality, Sagan was another OGE rider at the end. He went too hard for GVA and EBH to launch and get a gap but it wasn't enough to drop all of Matthews help. Good result for him in the end though.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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cipurian said:
I have to say good on tinkoff to support Sagan so splendidly today.
come on, he got bidons and food bags... unfortunately got no advice from DS to sit and let orica work
 
May 29, 2015
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DFA123 said:
Andro said:
Pretty awful tactics by Orica, they almost threw away the win despite having 3 riders, but Michael Gerrans managed to save it in the end.

No idea what GVA was doing.
They only nearly lost it because Matthews got boxed in. But he was so much fresher than everyone else, that he still won pretty comfortably in the end. I'd say that's the mark of excellent tactics - keeping your sprinter fresh for the finale.
There was plenty of ways that sprint could have gone wrong. Matthews wasn't much fresher than everyone else. Dumoulin and GVA also sat on wheels the entire way. And in the end, Matthews didn't really win the sprint all that comfortably.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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It's not all about pure strenght and agressive riding in cycling. Riding the best tactical race possible is also part of the sport.

I can enjoy a victory like today just as much as an agressive Sagan win. The diversity in race-approach makes the sport so interesting.
 
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trucido said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Great win by Matthews. Wheelsucking? Come on! I'm not sure OGE's tactics today were the best but it panned out at the end after all. Sagan spent way too much energy. I think he's becoming too self-confident. What was GVA doing?
That's not a great win, it would have been a big fail if he didn't with the rider advantage.

Sagan weighed up that the points for 2nd-3rd were worth more than an all or nothing approach for the stage.
No way. He'd have taken a stage win over an extra 10-15 points every single time. He just burnt himself out following all the attacks. Should have either bluffed and forced someone else to chase Impey (if no-one did he'd have finished 2nd/3rd from the group anyway), or gone on a hard attack himself. What he did was a bit ridiculous - burn himself out.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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Perfect team tactics by Greenedge. It's perfectly fine to 'wheelsuck' when you have one or more teammates in the breakaway.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
trucido said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Great win by Matthews. Wheelsucking? Come on! I'm not sure OGE's tactics today were the best but it panned out at the end after all. Sagan spent way too much energy. I think he's becoming too self-confident. What was GVA doing?
That's not a great win, it would have been a big fail if he didn't with the rider advantage.

Sagan weighed up that the points for 2nd-3rd were worth more than an all or nothing approach for the stage.
When you're in a break with Nibali, GVA, Sagan, Hagen, Costa and Cummings it's a great win no matter how you look at it.
Sure, if he did it without Impey and Durbridge.

Not a great win in my book.
 
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Arredondo said:
It's not all about pure strenght and agressive riding in cycling. Riding the best tactical race possible is also part of the sport.

I can enjoy a victory like today just as much as a agressive Sagan win. The diversity in race-approach makes the sport so interesting.
Yeah... but it would have been nice to see Sagan win after being worked over by Orica.
 
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Andro said:
DFA123 said:
Andro said:
Pretty awful tactics by Orica, they almost threw away the win despite having 3 riders, but Michael Gerrans managed to save it in the end.

No idea what GVA was doing.
They only nearly lost it because Matthews got boxed in. But he was so much fresher than everyone else, that he still won pretty comfortably in the end. I'd say that's the mark of excellent tactics - keeping your sprinter fresh for the finale.
There was plenty of ways that sprint could have gone wrong. Matthews wasn't much fresher than everyone else. Dumoulin and GVA also sat on wheels the entire way. And in the end, Matthews didn't really win the sprint all that comfortably.
So in what way was it awful tactics; do you think they should have won it a different way? Matthews was celebrating 10 metres from the line - that's pretty comfortable as far as sprints go.
 
True, GvA looked cooked. Sam Dum defintely. EBH tried and Sagan had to defend numerous times. But yeah they should have tried harder (could they have ?). Anyway as I said, I like Orica sonit's not a big deal. I just like so much how Sagan rides, sometimes without caring about basic tactics. He seems to ride wildly and crazily and that's why I love to watch !
 
Apr 12, 2009
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King Boonen said:
DFA123 said:
Krokro said:
I understand basic tactics and how Orica perfectly played it. But I surely can dislike that panache-less win. Anyway, great breakaway action at the end of the day.
Blame the other four guys then for not winning with panache. Everyone there knew what Orica's plan was and no-one did anything near enough to disrupt it. GVA, EBH or Sagan should have gone on a hard attack immediately after Impey had been brought back from one of his attacks - then we'd have seen what Matthews was made of.
In reality, Sagan was another OGE rider at the end. He went too hard for GVA and EBH to launch and get a gap but it wasn't enough to drop all of Matthews help. Good result for him in the end though.
Correct analysis.
 
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Andro said:
Pretty awful tactics by Orica, they almost threw away the win despite having 3 riders, but Michael Gerrans managed to save it in the end.
Pretty awful tactics that resulted in a win? So Matthews should have wasted more energy in the win just to appease a bunch of armchair forum critics? I think they did what they could and it worked. Go ride your bike son.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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happytramp said:
I'm more surprised that the others (who must have known they couldn't win in a sprint) didn't try something when Orica and Sagan were watching each other.
exactly, especially EBH and GVA should have tried to launch an attack immediately after Matthews
 
May 29, 2015
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DFA123 said:
Andro said:
DFA123 said:
Andro said:
Pretty awful tactics by Orica, they almost threw away the win despite having 3 riders, but Michael Gerrans managed to save it in the end.

No idea what GVA was doing.
They only nearly lost it because Matthews got boxed in. But he was so much fresher than everyone else, that he still won pretty comfortably in the end. I'd say that's the mark of excellent tactics - keeping your sprinter fresh for the finale.
There was plenty of ways that sprint could have gone wrong. Matthews wasn't much fresher than everyone else. Dumoulin and GVA also sat on wheels the entire way. And in the end, Matthews didn't really win the sprint all that comfortably.
So in what way was it awful tactics; do you think they should have won it a different way? Matthews was celebrating 10 metres from the line - that's pretty comfortable as far as sprints go.
It was awful because they put all their money on one horse. They burned out 2/3 of their riders. If Matthews had lost the sprint(which not that unlikely the way it played out), it would have been up there with Stannard beating Etixx.

People on here are way too results oriented. A tactic wasn't necessarily "perfect" just because you won. That's simplistic thinking.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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If I understand correctly, what some are saying is team tactics are a bad thing? Maybe we should shift to single rider teams.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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Re: Re:

Andro said:
DFA123 said:
Andro said:
DFA123 said:
Andro said:
Pretty awful tactics by Orica, they almost threw away the win despite having 3 riders, but Michael Gerrans managed to save it in the end.

No idea what GVA was doing.
They only nearly lost it because Matthews got boxed in. But he was so much fresher than everyone else, that he still won pretty comfortably in the end. I'd say that's the mark of excellent tactics - keeping your sprinter fresh for the finale.
There was plenty of ways that sprint could have gone wrong. Matthews wasn't much fresher than everyone else. Dumoulin and GVA also sat on wheels the entire way. And in the end, Matthews didn't really win the sprint all that comfortably.
So in what way was it awful tactics; do you think they should have won it a different way? Matthews was celebrating 10 metres from the line - that's pretty comfortable as far as sprints go.
It was awful because they put all their money on one horse. They burned out 2/3 of their riders. If Matthews had lost the sprint(which not that unlikely the way it played out), it would have been up there with Stannard beating Etixx.

People on here are way too results oriented. A tactic wasn't necessarily "perfect" just because you won. That's simplistic thinking.
especialoy if you realize that Sagan lost mainly because he was boxed in by early-launching EBH and GVA
 

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