2016 TdF, Stage 10: Escaldes-Engordany → Revel (197km)

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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
trucido said:
DFA123 said:
trucido said:
Hugo Koblet said:
Great win by Matthews. Wheelsucking? Come on! I'm not sure OGE's tactics today were the best but it panned out at the end after all. Sagan spent way too much energy. I think he's becoming too self-confident. What was GVA doing?
That's not a great win, it would have been a big fail if he didn't with the rider advantage.

Sagan weighed up that the points for 2nd-3rd were worth more than an all or nothing approach for the stage.
No way. He'd have taken a stage win over an extra 10-15 points every single time. He just burnt himself out following all the attacks. Should have either bluffed and forced someone else to chase Impey (if no-one did he'd have finished 2nd/3rd from the group anyway), or gone on a hard attack himself. What he did was a bit ridiculous - burn himself out.
He was pretty happy in his interview post-race, so I'd say mission accomplished for the day.
If he's happy with that, it probably explains why he's only won one Tour stage in the last three years. Not the sharpest tool in the box, that's for sure.
he certainly could gamble and not pull back the attacks and it could work...and if it didnt work youd call him an idiot who threw green jersey away

there is no win with people like you
 
Re: Re:

saganftw said:
he certainly could gamble and not pull back the attacks and it could work...and if it didnt work youd call him an idiot who threw green jersey away

there is no win with people like you
Well, he could have won the stage. This is far from the first time he's burnt himself out by closing everything down and using up all his matches, only to have nothing left for his sprint. All his big wins have come by going long, or sitting in the bunch saving himself for the sprint. He can't put in numerous hard anaerobic efforts at the end of a race and sprint well - but he never seems to learn this.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
he certainly could gamble and not pull back the attacks and it could work...and if it didnt work youd call him an idiot who threw green jersey away

there is no win with people like you
Well, he could have won the stage. This is far from the first time he's burnt himself out by closing everything down and using up all his matches, only to have nothing left for his sprint. All his big wins have come by going long, or sitting in the bunch saving himself for the sprint. He can't put in numerous hard anaerobic efforts at the end of a race and sprint well - but he never seems to learn this.
you are acting like GVA,dumoulin and matthews were ready to pull at the front but sagan said "no thank you"

ofc he had to pull back the attacks of Impey,who else? GVA was cooked,dumoulin as well,matthews wouldnt and god knows whats EBHs problem

it could actually end up with impey winning the stage and matthews possibly outsprinting sagan for second - he was actually not really competing with matthews but rather with cavendish

he is jugling 2 goals here,green jersey and a stage win - winning another stage would be nice,but getting as many points as possible is paramount...he doesnt have a room to gamble with points because he doesnt have the speed of an elite sprinter,thats how you win green jersey- by being around all the time,not by being 1st one day and 10th the other,the downside is you have to spend energy where others dont
 
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
 
Re: Re:

saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
Wow Peter I didn't know you were writing on the CN forums and racing the TdF at the same time! Chapeau!

I mean you must be Sagan to proclaim that a stage is worth infinitely more to you than some inconsequential green jersey points no?

Why did you throw away a guaranteed stage win? All you had to do was bluff or go in an all out attack! Shame on you!
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
depends who you ask...oleg said green jersey is the goal
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
Maybe not when your trying to go for the green jersey for a 5th time. He could make history in just a couple of years.
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
Maybe not when your trying to go for the green jersey for a 5th time. He could make history in just a couple of years.
The point is he's going to win green whether he got 20 or 40 points from today's stage. And, of course, if he would have won the stage - like he could have done by being a bit cleverer imo - he would have got even more points than he did.

Winning the stage and getting points aren't mutually exclusive goals - in fact, they're mutually beneficial.
 
Re: Re:

trucido said:
DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
DFA123 said:
Sagan's easily going to win the green jersey again. That doesn't change whether he finished 2nd or 4th today. He had a great chance to win the stage, but did too much in the last 40km. He'd have been better just sitting at the back of the main bunch and launching one hard attack on the climb himself - the bigger bunch would have had more hesitation before organising how to pull him back. Once he split the race it was more complicated, but he should at least have just sat at the back and made Orica do all the pulling, instead of taking monster turns himself.

I think he over-estimates his abilities at times; either that, or he just doesn't care so much about winning.
your problem is you are only thinking about winning the stage,he wanted the intermediate sprint as well and for the break to make it to the finish...if he wanted just a stage win,he would have sat in the bunch

in the end he gained like 40+ points on cavendish,sitting in the bunch waiting for sprint would made him what? 20 tops? that last climb wasnt nowhere near hard enough to do what he did in tour de suisse
That's because winning a stage is worth infinitely more than 20 green jersey points.
Wow Peter I didn't know you were writing on the CN forums and racing the TdF at the same time! Chapeau!

I mean you must be Sagan to proclaim that a stage is worth infinitely more to you than some inconsequential green jersey points no?

Why did you throw away a guaranteed stage win? All you had to do was bluff or go in an all out attack! Shame on you!
Chod' do riti, vole. ;)
 
Im not sure what to think about todays Sagan stage. But one thing is sure, the man has two big balls. The only one who made the race, and its always the same with him, hes not afraid of race hard even it doesnt benefit him. Mathews win today doesnt tell me nothing.
 
Re:

saganftw said:
there are 4 sprinter stages left...if by some act of god cav wins all of them thats 200 points

its not time to gamble...yet

maybe in 3rd week?
To be fair, if Cavendish wins seven stages in the Tour and still doesn't win the green jersey, then the competition is a bit devalued anyway. I don't think Sagan needs to be compromising to get points at the expense of going all out to win the stage, just in case another guy wins seven stages. Strikes me as being a bit cautious.
 
i personaly think cav wont finish tour,but you cannot possibly act like its a forgone conclusion

better to be safe than miss the jersey by few points because you gambled in the break that didnt work out
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
saganftw said:
he certainly could gamble and not pull back the attacks and it could work...and if it didnt work youd call him an idiot who threw green jersey away

there is no win with people like you
Well, he could have won the stage. This is far from the first time he's burnt himself out by closing everything down and using up all his matches, only to have nothing left for his sprint. All his big wins have come by going long, or sitting in the bunch saving himself for the sprint. He can't put in numerous hard anaerobic efforts at the end of a race and sprint well - but he never seems to learn this.
Yes he never learn.Shame he doesn't have Kwiatek ''cycling brain''.Today he lost stage and not Matthews win.Even three they were not that strong.Maybe at Bora start to learn him how to use better his power.
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
Andro said:
People on here are way too results oriented. A tactic wasn't necessarily "perfect" just because you won. That's simplistic thinking.
Hi! Welcome to sports. We have two types of fans. Type A thinks that whomever won must have done everything right, because they won. And Type B thinks that whomever won must have either done so beautifully or cheated the universe in some way. The rest of us aren't real sports fans, since we're not smart enough to grasp either of these universal truths.
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It's a New concept this critique of a winning team, and talk about how they did not do Things right. The winner had quite a good margin, but for some it is never enough. The tactic of Impey attacking again and again, seemed to work pretty well too. Even an armchaircyclist noticed it. As for comments about EBH "should have attacked" well he tried in the downhill, but just could not make up any gap.
 
Jul 13, 2016
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Wrer gonne have to be waiting untill thursday for the fireworks. Expecting a boring stage today with a bunch sprint coming down to greipel, Kittel and Cav.
 
Jul 6, 2016
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Why was Sagan allowed in the break? And what about all the teams that didn't have a rider in the front as well? I don't understand. There was nearly 150km of flat riding to reel them in.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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Re:

Billie said:
Anyone ever saw a break that had 3 out of 7 from the same team but it was 6v1 against another rider?
Nope 3 out of 7 but 6v1 a few times.Cancellara vs......
 
Aug 15, 2012
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Sagan is just marked to point where he can't expect cooperation, and has to cover every move. Despite coming in second, it's sort of a compliment that it takes 40 odd percent of a team and some hard charging wheel sucks to keep him off the top step. Dude's a beast.
 
I dont know if someonewrote it before, but for me the strangest thing in this stage was Tommy V nailing the front of peloton, he was able to rip of almost two minutes from the break's advantage. I still dont understand that, why did he do it? They had "sitting bull" Chavanel in the front. Did they believe in Coquard's victory? The result of his effort was (I believe it was one of the reasons) Sagan's attack at the crosswind section, who split the front group and suddenly Chava lost the stage. More shocking to me, at this moment, Tommy V and the rest of his team pulled of the front of peloton. And we never saw Chava do a turn in a second group. What kind of tactics did Direct energie play in this stage?
 

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