2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

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Apr 10, 2011
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The Hitch said:
Gloin22 said:
The Hitch said:
In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?
Because times change??? 2011... different juries, different opinions.

And essentially, Tour PR. Tour would be mockery across the world and media if they let that stand like that.
So in other words, 1 rule for some, another rule for others. Why didn't they give Stybar the Paris Roubaix stone in 2013 when the fan took him out?
I'll qoute BigMac as he put it succinctly.

Doesn't mean it was the correct decision back then. Time change. Fortunatly we humans have this capacity to correct mistakes, have critical thinking instead of basing every decision on [unfair] precedents. Else there would be no point in having comissaires.
 
Re: Re:

djpbaltimore said:
RattaKuningas said:
This decision makes the situation even worse. At first you had 2.5 riders affected by the decision (Mollema managed to keep going quickly so I give 0.5) but now the whole peloton is affected by this and there are even more people who are not happy. Terrible decision.
But this alters the time to best approximate how the stage would've occurred if not for the negligence of the organizers and the actions of the 'fans'. Any alteration is going to be artificial, but this seems the most sporting solution to me, but YMMV...
Exactly this. So don't alter it. It's basically a cop out by ASO to cover for their own inability to organise a race properly.
 
May 26, 2012
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DFA123 said:
Sartorius said:
Even after neutralization Quintana is winner here...he would have definitely lost more seconds without that incident.
Obviously you can't know that.
Well it's only my opinion, but he looked bad and he was steadily losing time...
 
Re: Re:

Fight.The.Power said:
bigcog said:
DFA123 said:
spalco said:
Froome's bike had a broken fork apparently:

Hmmm, I don't think I'll be buying a pinarello any time soon. Was hardly a high speed pile up.
I always thought titanium was a better bet :D
Isn't the guy who took this photo a thief ?
Posting about the photo. I'm assuming the impact was in an unusual force vector. If the layup is not designed to handle force in that vector, then it fails. This is the reason carbon isn't so great. It's nice until it breaks though!
 
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AICA ribonucleotide said:
Absolute bs is this the new rule now?

Contador in 2011 and Armstrong in 2003 were both taken out by spectators.
The race wasnt neutralised. There was no lets stop and take the time from there.

All a rider has to do now is go all all out at the start of a summit finish, get someone to take them halfway up and the race will be neutralised as that point under the new rules.
Everyone waited for Armstrong in 2003, so I don't know why you brought this up
 
Aug 9, 2009
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Looks like a lose-lose situation for ASO. I swear they'd probably be better off if the whole stage is neutralized for GC.
 
Re: Re:

Ramira said:
TMP402 said:
Dumb fans boo Froome. Sky's charm offensive undone through no fault of their own.
Don't think it's that simple. The dumb fans who hate Froome for no reason will keep hating him, sure.

But real fans realise this wasn't his fault. And shouldn't hold the decision against him. You can hardly call for someone to act like a champion and complain when he tries to get back almost two minutes he lost through no fault of his own.
Its not his fault but it's bike racing and these things happen. You have to deal with these bits of luck.
 
they have to do what they did.

otherwise crazies will think that they can do stuff like that and alter the result of the race in the favor of their favorite rider.

they could not allow what happened to stand and drastically affect the actual result of the race.
 
Re: Re:

djpbaltimore said:
The Hitch said:
In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?
Apples and oranges. You have the fact that the motorbike was involved, so there is some direct responsibility for the organization. And you have the fact that the team support was essentially nil due to the course congestion.
2009 Vuelta Cadel lost a minute waiting for the moto. Didn't get that back
 
Jul 26, 2009
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Not Happy with giving Porte and Froome the same time as Bauke without compensating the bunch behind with 10 sec at least. They got stuck behind the chaos with cars etc when Bauke could just go ahead
 
Re:

AICA ribonucleotide said:
Absolute bs is this the new rule now?

Contador in 2011 and Armstrong in 2003 were both taken out by spectators.
The race wasnt neutralised. There was no lets stop and take the time from there.

All a rider has to do now is go all all out at the start of a summit finish, get someone to take them halfway up and the race will be neutralised as that point under the new rules.
Maybe because the moto was involved and the whole group was effected ?
 
Jun 13, 2016
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Gloin22 said:
The Hitch said:
In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?
Because times change??? 2011... different juries, different opinions.

And essentially, Tour PR. Tour would be mockery across the world and media if they let that stand like that.
So in other words, 1 rule for some, another rule for others. Why didn't they give Stybar the Paris Roubaix stone in 2013 when the fan took him out?
There's a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do. What they did back then has absolutely no impact as far as doing the right thing today.

In fact, I'm sure you bitched and moaned enough in 2011. What made you change your mind? If it was a fan and a fan alone in 2011 and the organizers did the wrong thing and penalized Alberto, the new organizers (or the same) can't learn with those mistakes?

You are only complaining because of irrational hate and blind fanboyism. You feel no one, Hitchens would've been sick.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
djpbaltimore said:
RattaKuningas said:
This decision makes the situation even worse. At first you had 2.5 riders affected by the decision (Mollema managed to keep going quickly so I give 0.5) but now the whole peloton is affected by this and there are even more people who are not happy. Terrible decision.
But this alters the time to best approximate how the stage would've occurred if not for the negligence of the organizers and the actions of the 'fans'. Any alteration is going to be artificial, but this seems the most sporting solution to me, but YMMV...
Exactly this. So don't alter it. It's basically a cop out by ASO to cover for their own inability to organise a race properly.
And the yellow jersey losing almost 2 minutes due to a moron causing a bike crash isn't artificial? The simple fact is the crash caused an impossible situation. To me the best solution is to try and approximate what would have happened if the fans hadn't interfered. A bit like they have rules in baseball for fan interference with the ball.
 
Re:

AICA ribonucleotide said:
Absolute bs is this the new rule now?

Contador in 2011 and Armstrong in 2003 were both taken out by spectators.
The race wasnt neutralised. There was no lets stop and take the time from there.

All a rider has to do now is go all all out at the start of a summit finish, get someone to take them halfway up and the race will be neutralised as that point under the new rules.
Exactly. This is a precedent and each and every time there is a collision with a spectator there will be a neutralization now (because based on this decision riders have right to ask for neutralization).
Some desperate rider might use it to his advantage in the future.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
djpbaltimore said:
The Hitch said:
In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?
Apples and oranges. You have the fact that the motorbike was involved, so there is some direct responsibility for the organization. And you have the fact that the team support was essentially nil due to the course congestion.
2009 Vuelta Cadel lost a minute waiting for the moto. Didn't get that back
I think the neutral bike didn't have the correct wheels.
 

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