2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

[DFA123]

I understand why people are discussing if the neutralization was the right decision but I really don't get why people discuss if it's a different situation than for example in San Sebastian last year because back then it was the fault of the moto and this time a spectator. Thats completely beside the point. It only matters if the rider was affected by something which wasn't his own fault and in both situations that was the case.

To be fair, what could they have done in San Sebastian? Given GVA the win when there was still 10km to race and he had about a 5 second advantage? A one day race isn't really the same as a GT.

Still agree that it's a bad precedent though. The result is basically artificial now - and there is no way they would have done this if the yellow jersey wasn't involved.

 

[ggusta]

Re: Re:

Froome's bike had a broken fork apparently:

Hmmm, I don't think I'll be buying a pinarello any time soon. Was hardly a high speed pile up.

I always thought titanium was a better bet

Isn't the guy who took this photo a thief ?

What's the source for the stolen bike story?

I don't think the bike was actually stolen. For one, where would a spectator take it?

if the bike turns up tomorrow with a motor installed in it, sky can blame it on the 'thief'

a broken fork at 13 mph crash? Are they sourcing them from chinarello?

 

[PhiberAwptik]

Froome keeps the yellow! Well that's it, I'm not watching this **** anymore. They are in Sky's pocket. They want to make Froome the winner no matter what. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this ****.

This is a ridiculous reaction. You should be embarassed.

 

[Rollthedice]

One disgrace repaired with another. Tour de Farce.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Dumb fans boo Froome. Sky's charm offensive undone through no fault of their own.

Lol. I need to ask.

Charm offensive?

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Dumb fans boo Froome. Sky's charm offensive undone through no fault of their own.

Where did you see that? I didn't see them booing him when he crashed.

When he received his yellow jersey on the podium about 5 mins ago.

 

[jaylew]

There is no "right" solution to this. Someone was always going to get hosed. We can only hope Froome, Porte, Nairo, TGBM, Yates or someone else really puts his stamp on the race from here on out. At least then no one can complain about the proper winner. That said, it's likely some spots in the top 10 will be ultimately affected. Hopefully podium will clearly separate themselves, however. Porte has got to be rueing that mechanical he had more than ever.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Well basically any decision will piss off a lot of people.

Organizers should've done better organizing. I would not like to be them right now.

How would giving Froome, Porte and Mollema the same time piss people off? It's the minimum.

Quintana had lost time.

In any other case of mechanical or accident on a MTF, they don't give crap. Why should they now?

THIS

I dont want Froome and Porte lose time because of that, but this is very controversial

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This decision makes the situation even worse. At first you had 2.5 riders affected by the decision (Mollema managed to keep going quickly so I give 0.5) but now the whole peloton is affected by this and there are even more people who are not happy. Terrible decision.

But this alters the time to best approximate how the stage would've occurred if not for the negligence of the organizers and the actions of the 'fans'. Any alteration is going to be artificial, but this seems the most sporting solution to me, but YMMV...

Exactly this. So don't alter it. It's basically a cop out by ASO to cover for their own inability to organise a race properly.

And the yellow jersey losing almost 2 minutes due to a moron causing a bike crash isn't artificial? The simple fact is the crash caused an impossible situation. To me the best solution is to try and approximate what would have happened if the fans hadn't interfered. A bit like they have rules in baseball for fan interference with the ball.

Well no, it's not artificial. Sure, it's a strange event that happened on the road, but the time gaps at the finish were still real. Taking them from a random point in the race, when riders would have been at different levels of fatigue/pacing themselves differently - is artificial.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

What rule have they invented to prevent Froome from being DQ'd for moving without a bike?

Inb4 they penalise Aru but not Froome

Your allowed to do so if your team car is blocked to reach neutral service, the Sky car was stuck behind the jury's.

I don't think Froome should be DQ'd, but neutral service was behind him, so he was running away from the neutral service.

He ran forward to clear a path for the motorcycles and cars to get through and probably also to get away from the crowd.

he had to run because he could not just stay and wait... with legs set to 200 rpm

 

[movingtarget]

Does anyone know what the time gap was when the accident happened ?

 

[saganftw]

they screwed TGBM,cycling gods will not look at this farce without acting

 

[markene2]

Re:

Does anyone know what the time gap was when the accident happened ?

23 seconds

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

And the yellow jersey losing almost 2 minutes due to a moron causing a bike crash isn't artificial? The simple fact is the crash caused an impossible situation. To me the best solution is to try and approximate what would have happened if the fans hadn't interfered. A bit like they have rules in baseball for fan interference with the ball.

You keep pretending as if no fan has ever influenced the outcome of the race. It happens.

Baseball is a terrible analogy unless you want barriers for every kilometer ridden.

 

[vedrafjord]

Pro Cyclists Data ‏@procyclistsdata 3m3 minutes ago
Froome & Porte get same finishing time as Mollema in Stage #TDF2016

Phew!

 

[Lynton]

Re:

In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?

Because the whole situation would not have occurred if the race organisers had not stuffed up and only erected barriers for the last few 100 metres. Even the race winner stated he did not know where the finish was because there were no crowd barriers. Normally the barriers start a few km out from the finish line and if this had been done by the race organisers the whole situation would not have occurred. The organisers failed to protect the riders and the validity of the sport yet again.

I have lost a lot of respect for Quintana. What happened to not attacking an opponent that has suffered a mechanical or other misfortune as is the unwritten rule? Prior to the Porte/Froome crash Quintana had been dropped and was not going to be able to respond, he was loosing time on both of them. He should not have intentionally profited from their misfortune, that is just not done. Just another sign cycling is losing its traditions and etiquette.

 

[3wheeler]

Froome will need a good massage tonight because running in cleats kills your legs the next day if you have done nothing but lived on the bike for six months prior..

 

[Cancelled]

Re: Re:

In fact, I'm sure you bitched and moaned enough in 2011. What made you change your mind? If it was a fan and a fan alone in 2011 and the organizers did the wrong thing and penalized Alberto, the new organizers (or the same) can't learn with those mistakes?

You are only complaining because of irrational hate and blind fanboyism. You feel no one, Hitchens would've been sick.

You joined a month ago, you have no idea what anyone did in 2011..

You really need to simmer down, calling for people to be killed off and attacking anyone with a different view to yours is not the way to have a discussion.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Does anyone know what the time gap was when the accident happened ?

DD has GPS data and uses that to gauge a gap in this case around 30secs.

 

[arvc40]

Re:

Reckon Porte was about to crack Froome when the attack happened with 1.8km to go. Porte is damn unlucky.

Yeagh he was about to unleash the beast !. 30 seconds minimum !.

 

[Ramira]

Re: Re:

What rule have they invented to prevent Froome from being DQ'd for moving without a bike?

Inb4 they penalise Aru but not Froome

Your allowed to do so if your team car is blocked to reach neutral service, the Sky car was stuck behind the jury's.

I don't think Froome should be DQ'd, but neutral service was behind him, so he was running away from the neutral service.

He ran forward to clear a path for the motorcycles and cars to get through and probably also to get away from the crowd.

he had to run because he could not just stay and wait... with legs set to 200 rpm

Ok, that's just funny. Well done

 

[webvan]

Should have neutralized at the crash, what would have happened if Mollema hadn't finished?

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Dumb fans boo Froome. Sky's charm offensive undone through no fault of their own.

Where did you see that? I didn't see them booing him when he crashed.

When he received his yellow jersey on the podium about 5 mins ago.

If he keeps it to Paris I doubt he will give a stuff.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Does anyone know what the time gap was when the accident happened ?

23 seconds

Wow I thought it was more than that.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

That narcissistic French goof Prudhomme needs to get fired for this. This never happens at the Giro. Yet, Zomegnan had to go in 2011, after Wouter's fatal crash and the controversial route design. It's time to get rid off that nationalistic clown! Prudhomme is a disgrace for cycling!

You can't blame him for public mistakes. You have to remember he shortened the Ventoux summit for public and riders safety.

That's unfair.

No, it ain't unfair. Enough is enough with Prudhomme.

In the end he's the one to take responsibility for a correct organization of this bike race. There should've been barriers, police officers and/or marshals to take care of the fans. Prudhomme eventually takes the guilt for this lack of safety.

We've got a Tour start at Düsseldorf next year. Close to Dinslaken, where many radical islamics and potential terrorists are located. And this incompetent goof should devise a proper safety concept!? No. He needs to go!

It's not just his lack of organization. It's about his arrogance, his constant provocation to the cycling government. His laird behavior towards the riders and unwillingness to share the generated cash with the teams. His pathetic route design that gets worse and worse. Etc. pp.

And then such an incident is happening insulting the whole Tour of France openly in the whole wide world.

He's unbearable from my pov. You can't constantly point percy at others porcelain and then can't get your own act together!