2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

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rzombie1988

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Jul 19, 2009
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Trying to figure this out while watching the replay:

- If Phil is right and you can't go on without your bike, then Froome must be punished.

- If the rule about there being no 3KM safety zone on MTF's is legit, then Froome should not be getting the same time.

If both these are correct, Froome should be given his finishing time + a time penalty or a DQ.

Some other thoughts:

- I don't blame anyone for going on if someone is down. I remember Schleck/Contador. It's sleazy or whatever, but it's better than losing an oppurtunity. I don't think it's right, but the time/organizers traditionally don't care, and the time is the only thing that matters.

- I do not like changing of the rules. Every situation is different and if they give Froome the same time, there should be a lot of angry cyclists who had other incidients happen to them.
 
If Quintana was held up by the incident and somehow assumed that he would therefore get the same time as the group he was in, then why did Valverde say that these things just happen and that it's too bad for Froome?
 
Re: Re:

Cervelo77 said:
You can run the course carrying a bike...he was bikeless that is the difference.

This whole discussion about running with or without bikes is moot since the jury decided to give the same time to Mollema, Froome and Porte. He could have been skipping or cartwheeling or sitting at the curbside sipping a cola for a few minutes.
Maybe all riders will learn not to leave their bikes, if in future they decide to enforce the rule (if it is a rule)

Remember I'm just quoting Liggett and taking his word for it that it is a DQ offense, but he has served on race juries so certainly knows more about it than I do!
 
Re:

djpbaltimore said:
If he was held up, Quintana is within his rights to ask for the 7 secs back. But I still think it was his legs that did him in. It really looked like he needed the wheel of Valverde on the finishing stretch.
Unless Quintana finds some rockets to strap onto his back next week, he's not going head-to-head with Froome.

There's no hiding on Ventoux. It sorts out the GC every time. Porte needs a great TT.
 
Re: Re:

Cookster15 said:
movingtarget said:
Porte is jinxed. Even when he is making time he loses.
Can't believe Porte's bad luck. He is obviously in great form I just hope he can hold his head up now the organisers have, lucky for him, adjusted the finishing times. Big question is how hurt he is physically and mentally - the TT is tomorrow.
I heard that he banged his knee and he seemed very upset in an interview post race.
 
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Cycling1984 said:
Can someone please answer me this, why they didn't change the stage result if both porte and froome finished on the same time as Bauke Mollema?????????
Because they don't change the placings, only the time. Same thing was done at the Yates-incident.
 
rzombie1988 said:
Trying to figure this out while watching the replay:

- If Phil is right and you can't go on without your bike, then Froome must be punished.

- If the rule about there being no 3KM safety zone on MTF's is legit, then Froome should not be getting the same time.

If both these are correct, Froome should be given his finishing time + a time penalty or a DQ.

Some other thoughts:

- I don't blame anyone for going on if someone is down. I remember Schleck/Contador. It's sleazy or whatever, but it's better than losing an oppurtunity. I don't think it's right, but the time/organizers traditionally don't care, and the time is the only thing that matters.

- I do not like changing of the rules. Every situation is different and if they give Froome the same time, there should be a lot of angry cyclists who had other incidients happen to them.
Exactly! And therefore you can't rely on one set of rules, you need to use the power of intellect that God gave you!!!
 
Re:

PremierAndrew said:
I look forward to seeing GVA being awarded last year's San Sebastian. I look forward to seeing Contador being given 1:20 in the 2011 TdF. I look forward to a whole bunch of results being changed after today's change.

From a Froome fan.
Do you look forward to Yates losing the time he gained when the flamme rouge attacked him?
 
rzombie1988 said:
Trying to figure this out while watching the replay:

- If Phil is right and you can't go on without your bike, then Froome must be punished.

- If the rule about there being no 3KM safety zone on MTF's is legit, then Froome should not be getting the same time.

If both these are correct, Froome should be given his finishing time + a time penalty or a DQ.

Some other thoughts:

- I don't blame anyone for going on if someone is down. I remember Schleck/Contador. It's sleazy or whatever, but it's better than losing an oppurtunity. I don't think it's right, but the time/organizers traditionally don't care, and the time is the only thing that matters.

- I do not like changing of the rules. Every situation is different and if they give Froome the same time, there should be a lot of angry cyclists who had other incidients happen to them.
The jury have the power to divert from the rules to deal with situations such as this. The best scenario would be if they could take the time differences from just before the incident, but this is the easiest solution that's pretty fair as well, IMHO.
 
I don't want to say they make it up as they go along, but given the uniqueness of all of these various incidents, they do have to have some latitude in deciding how to square things. And yeah, they'll never make everyone happy. Remember when some jackwad threw NAILS all over the road a few years ago?
 
rzombie1988 said:
Trying to figure this out while watching the replay:

- If Phil is right and you can't go on without your bike, then Froome must be punished.

- If the rule about there being no 3KM safety zone on MTF's is legit, then Froome should not be getting the same time.

If both these are correct, Froome should be given his finishing time + a time penalty or a DQ.
That's not the way the UCI works. Rules are not rules until they almost randomly enforce them. No one is going to penalize Froome.

When they do enforce a rarely mentioned ruled, it's generally the case they have read something into the rules that are not there.
 
Re:

TMP402 said:
Bauke Mollema ‏@BaukeMollema 1m1 minute ago

What's going on? Seems like everybody gets time bonuses. I wonder what would have happened if I would have been the only one to go down...
1 retweet 1 like
He's spot on and absolutely correct to be annoyed. ASO pandering to the big names.
 

rzombie1988

BANNED
Jul 19, 2009
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Vasilis said:
rzombie1988 said:
Trying to figure this out while watching the replay:

- If Phil is right and you can't go on without your bike, then Froome must be punished.

- If the rule about there being no 3KM safety zone on MTF's is legit, then Froome should not be getting the same time.

If both these are correct, Froome should be given his finishing time + a time penalty or a DQ.

Some other thoughts:

- I don't blame anyone for going on if someone is down. I remember Schleck/Contador. It's sleazy or whatever, but it's better than losing an oppurtunity. I don't think it's right, but the time/organizers traditionally don't care, and the time is the only thing that matters.

- I do not like changing of the rules. Every situation is different and if they give Froome the same time, there should be a lot of angry cyclists who had other incidients happen to them.
The jury have the power to divert from the rules to deal with situations such as this. The best scenario would be if they could take the time differences from just before the incident, but this is the easiest solution that's pretty fair as well, IMHO.
Then what about all of the incidents in the past?

And now, you have to think for the future, because this rule is now going to be the standard. The other competitors are going to know this and the fans will as well.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
TMP402 said:
Bauke Mollema ‏@BaukeMollema 1m1 minute ago

What's going on? Seems like everybody gets time bonuses. I wonder what would have happened if I would have been the only one to go down...
1 retweet 1 like
He's spot on and absolutely correct to be annoyed. ASO pandering to the big names.
That's consistent with how the race has been run for at least 30 years.
 
Re: Re:

DirtyWorks said:
DFA123 said:
TMP402 said:
Bauke Mollema ‏@BaukeMollema 1m1 minute ago

What's going on? Seems like everybody gets time bonuses. I wonder what would have happened if I would have been the only one to go down...
1 retweet 1 like
He's spot on and absolutely correct to be annoyed. ASO pandering to the big names.
That's consistent with how the race has been run for at least 30 years.
+1 .
 
rzombie1988 said:
And now, you have to think for the future, because this rule is now going to be the standard. The other competitors are going to know this and the fans will as well.
This is the UCI and ASO. There is very little consistency.

There aren't that many fans that know or care.
 
Jul 14, 2016
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Juan Speeder said:
DirtyWorks said:
The Death Merchant said:
Froome keeps the yellow! Well that's it, I'm not watching this **** anymore. They are in Sky's pocket. They want to make Froome the winner no matter what. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this ****.
Were you watching the sport when Armstrong was wiping the floor at the TdF? Same sport, different guy wearing a GC leader's jersey. This time, ASO is making good money at it.

I find it odd that nobody has noted that it's the FRAME, not the fork that's been broken.

One of the seatstays is broken, which is part of the rear forks.

People usually just say 'forks' and mean the 'front forks', but the fork-shaped bit at the back of the frame that the rear wheel fits between is also called the (rear) forks.

It would have been much clearer had people just said 'seatstay' though.


Edit: Looking around on the web it's quite rar e refer to the backend of the bike as the forks, maybe it's am old fashioned term, but wikipedia mentions 'rear fork' a couple of times on their bike parts page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_parts.
 
Re:

jyrgen said:
Not Happy with giving Porte and Froome the same time as Bauke without compensating the bunch behind with 10 sec at least. They got stuck behind the chaos with cars etc when Bauke could just go ahead
You do know Mollema crashed don't you? You do know Porte Froome and Mollema had a 23" gap at time of crash, and it was rising?

The level of vitriol in here for all the haters coming out of the woodwork is mad, it makes me want Froome to win all the more.
 

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