2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

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happytramp said:
What_What said:
happytramp said:
Off topic... but who are all these poster with single or low double digit posts?
I'm going to take a wild punt here and say... *Drum roll*... wait for it... *More drum roll*... New members!
I can tell the forum is going to benefit massively from.....*Drum roll*..... your continued presence.
And my least favorite new trend is..... "Drum roll*..... drum rolls.
 
Re: Re:

Ataraxus said:
DFA123 said:
Ataraxus said:
Clear as mud. Looked to me like he was racing back on to the group. What is the time gap from him to the back of the group at that point; how would that be calculated?

The fact is it is all guesswork. Valverde's the fastest finisher in that group by far; he could claim he could have pulled out another five seconds on the sprint for the line if he hadn't been held up. A massive can of worms has been opened and there is no satisfactory solution.
Gee.
A blind person and a blind fanboy at the same time.
How much I love bashing them.
\

It's very clear Quintana got dropped when watching that video. There isn't even any discussion about it.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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DFA123 said:
Kwibus said:
DFA123 said:
I don't agree. Why take into account what happened to Quintana after passing the incident, but not Froome?
Inthat last km or so, Froome had a mavic bike, but couldn't clip or change gear and lost loads of time messing around. He could have come in half a minute earlier if he had been a bit more composed. Why is his incompetence there not taken into account?
It would've been if he crashed himself or just a mechanical. Now there was a moto accident, something the riders had absolutely 0% fault in. Another moto cracked Froomes wheel.

If he had a mechanical and went beserk like he did today then he would've got his time back. Thing is that the times got reset because of a crash caused by poor organisation and not by the riders fault.
Sure, I accept that. I don't necessarily agree with the decision, but certainly the crash wasn't the riders fault. But Quintana was undoubtedly held up by the crash as well. I don't think it's then fair to ignore the impact it had on him and his team-mate. Is there even footage of that group going past the incident? Perhaps Yates and Aru raced off and Quintana couldn't get on because he's not as explosive. A situation that wouldn't have happened without the incident.

Even if something like that didn't happen, he came to an almost complete stop and would have had to put in an anaerobic effort to get up to speed again. For a guy who had already made several attacks on the climb, that would have been a big effort, perhaps burning his last match, and may have contributed to him being dropped. Again, something caused by the incident.

Whether or not Quintana was directly involved in the crash, it clearly had an impact on the last 1.5km or whatever it was of the race. It meant that he couldn't ride at or just above threshold, as presumably he would have liked to without the incident.
What's the point of this argument about Quintana and held by the crash. Quintana got dropped. Fair and square He ain't gonna come back to Froome group. He was lucky that there was as crash, otherwise he would be loosing much more time. He got no legs. Not in Arcalis and not today. Yesterday clearly zapped his energy. Tomorrow is a survival mode for him.
 
Re: Re:

Armchaircyclist said:
mc_mountain said:
winkybiker said:
mc_mountain said:
just to play devil's advocate is there a case that Porte is culpable (at least in part) as he chose to draft so closely behind the moto, which gave him no time to react?
It is 100% the responsibility of the motorbike to keep far enough ahead. Porte had zero responsibility to slow just because the motorbike was slowing. It was reasonable of him to expect it to re-accelerate. Unfortunately, a bunch of drunken idiots ensured that didn't happen.
I agree but he choose to draft behind the moto, when he could have been offset from it.
----------------------
Yes, of course he could have just ridden on top of the spectators on the sides of the road ? Would be real easy for him. And after falling, a motorbike drove over Froome's bike, that's just racing eh ?
Well if Porte was too close to the moto ahead, the moto behind was clearly too close too. I am not looking to blame Porte just to see how the incident might have been avoided. If (and I appreciate he didnt particularly have a choice) if he wasn't so close directly behind the moto he might have seen the blockage that meant to the moto had to brake. If you disagree no problem.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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My kids love watching the tour on TV, but pictures of drunk 18 stone men wearing mankini's for TV exposure make me uncomfortable to allow them to watch. Why are these idiots not arrested for indecent behaviour?

I love the Tour and & have watched it avidly for 30 years. However it's becoming a shameful spectacle because of the fans. ASO & the UCI need to decide, do they want a bike race or a travelling circus?
 
Re: Re:

doperhopper said:
mc_mountain said:
just to play devil's advocate is there a case that Porte is culpable (at least in part) as he chose to draft so closely behind the moto, which gave him no time to react?
hahaha, imagine this outcome: no neutralization, Richie punished for drafting and Vroom for running without bike
Chose to draft? Why would it be Porte's fault for drafting motos and cars that wouldn't be in the way if not for the crowds? Porte, Froome and Mollema were trying to distance the pack behind - including Quintana. Would you ease up in that situation? Anyhow if Quintana and co were strong enough they'd have been in the same draft.
 
Re: Re:

webvan said:
TomekA said:
It's officially confirmed now that the gap between Froome group and Yates group (with Quintana) at the moment of the crash (1.2 km before the finish) was 22 seconds: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnWNJ7mWgAAY5av.jpg
No it says that the named riders get the gap of their group, at the finish that is. So why Quintana lost 26" on Froome today I don't know, unless they fixed that later.

Oh sorry. Yes the only question mark is Quintana and van Garderen time loss - Quintana was with the Yates group at the moment of the crash and then he lost 7 seconds at the finish line.
 
Jul 12, 2013
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Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
Ataraxus said:
DFA123 said:
Ataraxus said:
Clear as mud. Looked to me like he was racing back on to the group. What is the time gap from him to the back of the group at that point; how would that be calculated?

The fact is it is all guesswork. Valverde's the fastest finisher in that group by far; he could claim he could have pulled out another five seconds on the sprint for the line if he hadn't been held up. A massive can of worms has been opened and there is no satisfactory solution.
Gee.
A blind person and a blind fanboy at the same time.
How much I love bashing them.
\

It's very clear Quintana got dropped when watching that video. There isn't even any discussion about it.
Quintana?
 
Sep 12, 2015
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Re: Re:

BYOP88 said:
RattaKuningas said:
Anyone thinks that Trek protest will change anything?
Not a chance.
Not much they can do, there is no 4th reference rider from that group that was not held up by that moto crash. He is the reference. At best Froome & Porte wil thank him for setting an OK time for them.
 
Jelantik said:
What's the point of this argument about Quintana and held by the crash. Quintana got dropped. Fair and square He ain't gonna come back to Froome group. He was lucky that there was as crash, otherwise he would be loosing much more time. He got no legs. Not in Arcalis and not today. Yesterday clearly zapped his energy. Tomorrow is a survival mode for him.
You've missed the point. He got dropped after having to stop to pass the crash. It clearly impacted the way the last 1km of the stage was raced. If Froome's time was neutralized at the point of the crash, then it's correct that Quintana's was as well.

Of course it's very unlikely he was coming back to the Froome group, no-one has suggested that. He may well have been luck that the crash minimized his time loss; but that doesn't change the fact that you can't apply one rule to some riders, and a different one to others, when they were both affected by the same incident.
 
happytramp said:
What_What said:
happytramp said:
Off topic... but who are all these poster with single or low double digit posts?
I'm going to take a wild punt here and say... *Drum roll*... wait for it... *More drum roll*... New members!
I can tell the forum is going to benefit massively from.....*Drum roll*..... your continued presence.
I'm not sure what your problem is with new members though? Unless they act like buffoons....
 
DFA123 said:
Jelantik said:
What's the point of this argument about Quintana and held by the crash. Quintana got dropped. Fair and square He ain't gonna come back to Froome group. He was lucky that there was as crash, otherwise he would be loosing much more time. He got no legs. Not in Arcalis and not today. Yesterday clearly zapped his energy. Tomorrow is a survival mode for him.
You've missed the point. He got dropped after having to stop to pass the crash. It clearly impacted the way the last 1km of the stage was raced. If Froome's time was neutralized at the point of the crash, then it's correct that Quintana's was as well.

Of course it's very unlikely he was coming back to the Froome group, no-one has suggested that. He may well have been luck that the crash minimized his time loss; but that doesn't change the fact that you can't apply one rule to some riders, and a different one to others, when they were both affected by the same incident.
I think that Quintana was just tired today and that's why there was a gap between him and the group in the end.
 
Jul 14, 2016
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
And another snippet of news. Trek Factory Racing protesting the result now. Especially regarding Quintana/Valverde being placed in ST as Yates group
I joined today. I want to change my avatar to Bahamontes eating an ice cream, but the website won't let me.
 
Re:

MountTiede said:
My kids love watching the tour on TV, but pictures of drunk 18 stone men wearing mankini's for TV exposure make me uncomfortable to allow them to watch. Why are these idiots not arrested for indecent behaviour?

I love the Tour and & have watched it avidly for 30 years. However it's becoming a shameful spectacle because of the fans. ASO & the UCI need to decide, do they want a bike race or a travelling circus?
Drunken spectators dressing like idiots has become popular indeed, unfortunately. I wish they did something against, but what can you do? I'm not sure if it's possible to arrest them for indecent behaviour.
 
Kwibus said:
happytramp said:
What_What said:
happytramp said:
Off topic... but who are all these poster with single or low double digit posts?
I'm going to take a wild punt here and say... *Drum roll*... wait for it... *More drum roll*... New members!
I can tell the forum is going to benefit massively from.....*Drum roll*..... your continued presence.
I'm not sure what your problem is with new members though? Unless they act like buffoons....
What?... I don't have a problem with anyone. I just thought it was weird how many people seemed to have set up accounts in the last day or so. I thought it might all be the same person or there were a lot of bans or something.
 
Let's be fair, there are no winners here, except De Gendt. Of course, only a small number of riders were affected, but it was massive. It's a shame this happened. It doesn't matter if it was Froome or Quintana or Mollema or Porte in the yellow jersey and they had to scurry to adjust the times. It seems this Bastille day was full of bad luck. First the stage was shortened, we didn't get to see the top of the Ventoux (hats off to the ASO for at least getting that part right!) and there surely would have been some real (non motorbike incidents and crashes) fireworks as a number of guys are strong enough to at least challenge Froome (Porte, Mollema, Yates...perhaps even Quintana would have tried something), then the incidents. We'll see what the 2nd half of the tour brings. I hope guys like Mollema and Porte still have the legs to push Froome and make it to their first GT podiums. They are due.
 

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