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2017 TdF Doping Discussion

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Tonton

Tonton

May 17, 2013
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Good Evening!

We are already discussing the '17 TdF, so let me begin a thread that will gather the discussions pertaining to this event. This hopefully will help gather feelings and comments all in one spot. Cal me lazy: but personally, I dislike the surfing of many threads to find info and arguments about one single thing. And for a mod, it's convenient. Debates get heated, passions are high during Le Tour. Let's all stay respectful. of one another's takes. We can agree to disagree.

Here we go.

In the blue corner, Sky, and Dawg, winner of the "The Thrilla in PSM" and "The Rumble on Mont Ventoux". Froome, from dom to dominant, a very controversial character to say the least. The new USPS (blue)? Sky is under a microscope, but until the blue wall of silence cracks, we will never know. And blue is Astana's color too...'nuf said. When you have Vino in your corner, who needs a doctor? AG2R, it's not not just Vayer having doubts about Bardet, but there have been riders busted in recent years. FDJ? I will be biased, but honest, when claiming that Benotti69 has never called out Tibopino a doper. Madiot has a shady past, and therefore can he be trusted? And finally Movistar, Banesto all over again...cycling is clean!

In the red corner, Katusha, and the Berto team, blaming the prime rib a while back but not likely to enjoy prime time. Unless a miracle. Ritchie the new Froome. And all the rest...

We have to be ready for some head-scratching moments. Let's share them here. Le Tour de France: where miracles happen...
 
Tonton

Tonton

May 17, 2013
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With the rain today, I don't think that bashing Sky is fair. But it's only beginning. To me, stage 9 is HUGE. Multiple climbs, hard as can be, some will look human, others will look more or less human, and some will be unreal. The waiting game has begun. One of Bertie's guys got busted, what's next?
 
Galic Ho

Galic Ho

Aug 12, 2009
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Tonton said:
With the rain today, I don't think that bashing Sky is fair. But it's only beginning. To me, stage 9 is HUGE. Multiple climbs, hard as can be, some will look human, others will look more or less human, and some will be unreal. The waiting game has begun. One of Bertie's guys got busted, what's next?
Click to expand...

When a team does better, on paper, than Astana 2009 vintage edition, in the opening prologue and in doing so, manages to beat the standing time trial world champion, it needs to be raised.

Not normal.

Of course, if one was around in 2009, it's all kittens and boxes of chocolates! That was a good year!!
 
Blanco

Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
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Not normal of course. Thomas was back from injury, said himself he's nowhere his Giro form, he didn't take too many risks, yet he comfortably beat specialists who prepared for this day only for more than 3 months! He was gaining time on Tony Martin on the straight part, he gave more than 10sec to everyone in that 2nd part! And guess who was 2nd fastest on that part - Froome Dawg himself! So are this 2 riders biggest powerhouses in the peloton?! Are they supposed to be faster than Martin, Kung, Van Emden on that straight flat part?! I guess everybody knows the answer...
 
J

Jacques (7 ch)

May 16, 2015
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Tonton said:
With the rain today, I don't think that bashing Sky is fair. But it's only beginning. To me, stage 9 is HUGE. Multiple climbs, hard as can be, some will look human, others will look more or less human, and some will be unreal. The waiting game has begun. One of Bertie's guys got busted, what's next?
Click to expand...

I think stage 5, Belles Filles, will be a good first look at the Sky train and also the GC contenders generally.
 
Pantani_lives

Pantani_lives

May 3, 2010
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Since 2012 I have the terrible feeling that history is repeating itself. One team is dominating the Tour. They work with controversial doctors, they behave like bullies, their domestiques are stronger than the leaders of other teams. The media treat them like heroes, cycling "fans" are supporting them, arguing that "the others are doing it too". Josh Edmondson has testified to the BBC and UKAD that Team Sky has covered up his use of banned injections. Once again the UCI is doing nothing.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39591676

After the truth came out about US Postal I thought there was hope for this sport; now I think we're back in the same situation as fifteen years ago.
 
vedrafjord

vedrafjord

Jan 15, 2013
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Tonton said:
In the blue corner, Sky, and Dawg, winner of the "The Thrilla in PSM" and "The Rumble on Mont Ventoux". Froome, from dom to dominant, a very controversial character to say the least. The new USPS (blue)? Sky is under a microscope, but until the blue wall of silence cracks, we will never know. And blue is Astana's color too...'nuf said. When you have Vino in your corner, who needs a doctor? AG2R, it's not not just Vayer having doubts about Bardet, but there have been riders busted in recent years. FDJ? I will be biased, but honest, when claiming that Benotti69 has never called out Tibopino a doper. Madiot has a shady past, and therefore can he be trusted? And finally Movistar, Banesto all over again...cycling is clean!
Click to expand...

Based on the high speed stalemate in the mountains last year, like the way they blasted up the Aspin faster than anyone bar Ricco, I can't see any of the 2016 top 10 being clean - that includes guys I like like Martin and Bardet. I have some sympathy for riders who have to earn a livelihood in an environment where the UCI seem to have no interest in catching big names or fixing the holes in the passport, which isn't to say I condone it, because they still have a choice at the end of the day.

I think Pinot could be one of the good guys - he's not skeleton-thin, his team aren't suspicious these days, he will sometimes beat the big guys on a MTF in a one week race, but then in a GT they'll turn up turbocharged and he'll be at the same (believable) level.

Planche des Belles Filles will be very interesting - obviously it's where Sky's TDF domination began in 2012 (it's really preposterous watching it now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbRxKUm1WSM ) although Nibali in 2014 was actually 16 seconds faster than Froome in 2012. If Sky do the same thing again (which would mean being in yellow after stage 5 - very early - remember 2012 had a prologue so PDBF was really stage 8) will the other teams have the firepower to handle it?
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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I think most of the doping talk in this 2017 edition will be Sky related and will be better in the Sky/Froome thread.

Other clinic material, be it Quintana, Aru, Contador etc all have their own threads. For the future for those wanting to find related discussion will it not be better to keep the discussion to relevant threads rather than a minestrone of the 3 weeks.
 
Tonton

Tonton

May 17, 2013
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Not a bad point, although the counterpoint is obvious: in Froome's thread there's a lot of Quintana and so forth. Everytime there's a comparison, it's a minestrone as you call it. So having all under one July roof may not be a bad idea: we can digress, compare, argue and counter argue without being off-topic.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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Re:

ebandit said:
..team skys vortex generator skinsuits will make any positive tests....................... vanish

Mark L

...and benny i will post in the thread i choose..................
Click to expand...

I made a post, which contained a suggestion not a demand.
 
A

AustCyclingFan

May 27, 2016
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Whoo, what an incredible finish to stage 3. Sagan pulls a shoe, loses rhythm and still bursts away. Uphill. Unaided. The guys a superstar

Naked eye says the wattage those guys must have produced over that final kilometre would have been tremendous

Shaping as a power tour for the ages

/s
 
O

ontheroad

Oct 10, 2012
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Will be interesting to see the numbers on that last climb, 6 Sky doms appeared to be driving out a ferocious pace until Kwiatowski dropped off the front. Mountain goat Quintana then getting dropped by half a dozen riders, it appears as though there could yet be sparks at this years tour as the gap to Porte is nowhere near what it seemed at the Dauphine. Froome back as strong as ever though peaking at just the right time.
 
Tonton

Tonton

May 17, 2013
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Sunday is not a MTF, but with so much climbing, Vayer's radar will be out, and we may see some crazy stuff. Too bad that the Chat from Yenne has no data/times from top-riders to compare. Some of our experts here will be precious for us to truly appreciate the feats accomplished.
 
86TDFWinner

86TDFWinner

Aug 11, 2012
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Re:

Benotti69 said:
I think most of the doping talk in this 2017 edition will be Sky related and will be better in the Sky/Froome thread.

Other clinic material, be it Quintana, Aru, Contador etc all have their own threads. For the future for those wanting to find related discussion will it not be better to keep the discussion to relevant threads rather than a minestrone of the 3 weeks.
Click to expand...


Where's Nibali been? His disappearing act has been shown yet again. Is he afraid he'll get outed as a cheater again?
 
Irondan

Irondan

Apr 30, 2014
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Re: Re:

86TDFWinner said:
Benotti69 said:
I think most of the doping talk in this 2017 edition will be Sky related and will be better in the Sky/Froome thread.

Other clinic material, be it Quintana, Aru, Contador etc all have their own threads. For the future for those wanting to find related discussion will it not be better to keep the discussion to relevant threads rather than a minestrone of the 3 weeks.
Click to expand...


Where's Nibali been? His disappearing act has been shown yet again. Is he afraid he'll get outed as a cheater again?
Click to expand...
Huh?

He did the Giro, how is that a "disappearing act"?
 
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