2017 TdF Doping Discussion

[The Hegelian]

Not arguing for cleans, but quite frankly both the Giro and the Tour have been alien-free.

My eyebrows are not raised. Maybe a little bit on Landa.

 

[benzwire]

Re:

good thing it's legal

https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/status/887570376338939904

Littering is not legal!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re:

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

Maybe if they had a 20km/h tailwind?

I think you know what's up.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

For the last time, the w/kg number means little with the associated time the climb was ascended in. Col d'izoard is a long long climb. 5.3 for 60 mins is alien.

 

[Nomad]

Though it wasn't a MTF in the past, any reference to what kind of #'s were seen with Armstrong, Pantani, Ulrich, Indurain, etc.?

 

[Dr.Guess]

It was nice to see the women's race where the winner was dead tired in the interview and sweat was running down her face. Although I'm not arguing clean.

 

[Puckfiend]

Re:

It was nice to see the women's race where the winner was dead tired in the interview and sweat was running down her face. Although I'm not arguing clean.

Not to mention that she could barely walk when she first got off the bike...bent over and shuffling like she was in her nineties.

 

[DanielSong39]

It's obvious that the women are dirty too but it just doesn't seem to have the same kick.

 

[Benotti69]

i dont think the women compete any differently from the men. In fact those who run women teams generally came from the mens side and we know the culture there.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

i dont think the women compete any differently from the men. In fact those who run women teams generally came from the mens side and we know the culture there.

The difference will be money, not ethics. Rewards are less, costs of a programme are higher relative to salaries. Therefore the risk/reward calculation is different. There are, no doubt, people doping on the women's side of the sport, but there are practical reasons why doping is likely to be less prevalent and bespoke fully medically supervised programmes very rare. Those reasons do not involve assuming a different level of desire to win or a different moral stance.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re: Re:

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

For the last time, the w/kg number means little with the associated time the climb was ascended in. Col d'izoard is a long long climb. 5.3 for 60 mins is alien.

Thanks. Sorry - not an expert here. Can you put that into context then? What has Froome done for comparable times? Peak Contador, Lance, etc. Just seeing a lot of noise about how, Look, clearly not doping because Barguil won with low wattage. See front page article on Cyclingnews, for example.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

For the last time, the w/kg number means little with the associated time the climb was ascended in. Col d'izoard is a long long climb. 5.3 for 60 mins is alien.

:lol:

Ah. So, that's what it is?

Absolutely embarrassing. :lol:

 

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/barguil-cycling-is-cleaner-otherwise-i-wouldnt-have-won-on-the-izoard/

Here we go again!

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/barguil-cycling-is-cleaner-otherwise-i-wouldnt-have-won-on-the-izoard/

Here we go again!

You're a genuinely good poster. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with? Is it because The Clinic INSIST cycling is not clean and never will be? Have you even seen the climbing times this year?

Don't let their cynicism and hate cloud your judgment.

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

Is 5.3 W/kg accurate? That doesn't seem possible. At all. That would put the GC contenders at more like 5...that seems crazy low, right? Especially since Barguil crushed the record.

For the last time, the w/kg number means little with the associated time the climb was ascended in. Col d'izoard is a long long climb. 5.3 for 60 mins is alien.

:lol:

Ah. So, that's what it is?

Absolutely embarrassing. :lol:

No. Schleck/Contador 6W/kg on Tormalet for an hour was alien. Hinault and LeMond were at 5.7ish for 45 minutes on the alpe per Lemond. Merckx could put out 6.2 for an hour in training, so I would imagine he was close to that level, too. I wouldn't bet that these are clean, but as far as suspicious performances go this one isn't anywhere near the top.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/barguil-cycling-is-cleaner-otherwise-i-wouldnt-have-won-on-the-izoard/

Here we go again!

You're a genuinely good poster. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with? Is it because The Clinic INSIST cycling is not clean and never will be? Have you even seen the climbing times this year?

Don't let their cynicism and hate cloud your judgment.

We could accept Bardet if there was something to back it up. Like rigorous dope testing, complete transparency over checking for motors and those in the sport abhor and reject the culture to dope.

But in order to believe Bardet, we need to have seen something to make that change, to make the teams that are full of former dopers and doping enablers suddenly say nah no more doping, it worked before but no more!

So Bardet has to prove something has changed to make it cleaner. Talk is very cheap in cycling.

Dont let fairytales cloud your judgement.

 

[tyson766]

Third fastest Tour ever apparently according to the Euosport commentators. Only faster tours were 2003 and 2005, peak Lance era.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

 

[S2Sturges]

Third fastest Tour ever apparently according to the Euosport commentators. Only faster tours were 2003 and 2005, peak Lance era.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Farcical to the extreme....

 

[AICA ribonucleotide]

Third fastest Tour ever apparently according to the Euosport commentators. Only faster tours were 2003 and 2005, peak Lance era.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

You'd expect it with that route.

You can't argue that Froome is better this year than he was the previous 3 years.

 

[ontheroad]

Given that it is over 3 weeks ago since Cardoso tested positive and he requested that the B sample be tested asap, were the results of this B sample ever revealed?

After all he said that he never took any PED's before and surely he deserves an explanation.

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/barguil-cycling-is-cleaner-otherwise-i-wouldnt-have-won-on-the-izoard/

Here we go again!

You're a genuinely good poster. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with? Is it because The Clinic INSIST cycling is not clean and never will be? Have you even seen the climbing times this year?

Don't let their cynicism and hate cloud your judgment.

We could accept Bardet if there was something to back it up. Like rigorous dope testing, complete transparency over checking for motors and those in the sport abhor and reject the culture to dope.

But in order to believe Bardet, we need to have seen something to make that change, to make the teams that are full of former dopers and doping enablers suddenly say nah no more doping, it worked before but no more!

So Bardet has to prove something has changed to make it cleaner. Talk is very cheap in cycling.

Dont let fairytales cloud your judgement.

It gives it away that you did not read the article given you are referring to the wrong French cyclist :razz:

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/barguil-cycling-is-cleaner-otherwise-i-wouldnt-have-won-on-the-izoard/

Here we go again!

You're a genuinely good poster. I would be interested to hear what you disagree with? Is it because The Clinic INSIST cycling is not clean and never will be? Have you even seen the climbing times this year?

Don't let their cynicism and hate cloud your judgment.

We could accept Bardet if there was something to back it up. Like rigorous dope testing, complete transparency over checking for motors and those in the sport abhor and reject the culture to dope.

But in order to believe Bardet, we need to have seen something to make that change, to make the teams that are full of former dopers and doping enablers suddenly say nah no more doping, it worked before but no more!

So Bardet has to prove something has changed to make it cleaner. Talk is very cheap in cycling.

Dont let fairytales cloud your judgement.

It gives it away that you did not read the article given you are referring to the wrong French cyclist :razz:

Bardet was the one claiming it was cleaner.

 

[burning]

Third fastest Tour ever apparently according to the Euosport commentators. Only faster tours were 2003 and 2005, peak Lance era.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

I do believe that most if not all of the relevant riders are charged, but average speeds do mean jack sh*t, majority of the pace in a GT is dictated by the pointless breaks in flat stages

 

[Tonton]

Third fastest Tour ever apparently according to the Euosport commentators. Only faster tours were 2003 and 2005, peak Lance era.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

I do believe that most if not all of the relevant riders are charged, but average speeds do mean jack sh*t, majority of the pace in a GT is dictated by the pointless breaks in flat stages

Isn't average speed based on the GC leader distance/time?