2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2, 260k

[GraftPunk]

Re:

Vanmarcke is not injured anymore. He had stomach / intestine problems on Friday, but those don't 'eat' all of your shape (normally)(pun intended), so I expect he will actually be very fresh, maybe lacking the ability to go very deep / over the limit, but still a factor to consider (I heard the definition of factor is hotly debated!).

Good to know, he's a brave rider and one I always enjoy in the classics!

 

[loge1884]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quick-step-on-sagan-we-try-to-win-but-if-we-dont-win-then-he-loses/

So if QS's plan to win fails, the secondary goal would be to make sure Sagan loses? How pathetic is this?

psychowarfare is on ... however, quite pathetic in this case: the strongest team should put all efforts on wining, not on making someone losing (not even in thoughts) ... if I were sponsoring the team, the DS would receive quite a harsh e-mail ....

 

[loge1884]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

A lot of heat on. It is baked for the best Ronde in the years. Bring it on.

I'm quite happy if it matches last year's edition of RvV (except for the accidents and injuries in that race) ...

 

[sir fly]

No Cancellara, but there's Gilbert instead.
And this year there's Degenkolb, as well.
And what's the most important - everybody seem to be peaking right on time.
It's going to be exciting. Weekends to remember.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Voted for Degenkolb. I can see a slightly less favourite/outsider take it, and apart from the two major favourites, he strike me as the 3rd best rider, when we take his recent run on Kemmelberg and unrivaled sprint into account. I would love for Kristoff to take home a podium, but he just looks a little heavy on the Hellingen - but his shape is clearly progressing based on De Panne. Etixx will, as usual, have to rely on strength in numbers rather than one great candidate, but in Flanders that could be a great advantage.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

This is war! From now on the group ride in July shall only be called Ronde van Frankrijk!

Better yet.

All threads on here shall be abou the Tour of France.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen- April 2 -

8 million refugees in Australia since 1950s and 7 million can't speak English. Italians who migrated here 60 years ago can say yes or no, I'll call it tour of Italy and I'll call it the tour of Flanders.

I take it you are fluent in aboriginal languages then.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quick-step-on-sagan-we-try-to-win-but-if-we-dont-win-then-he-loses/

So if QS's plan to win fails, the secondary goal would be to make sure Sagan loses? How pathetic is this?

What an idiot. He can be saved only by Gilbert now, GVA wins he looks like an idiot, Sagan wins he looks like an king of idiots. His odds are pretty bad.

Just mind games isn't it; trying to avoid the same kind of ridiculous stand-off that happened last week. Basically telling Sagan that he will have to do more work if he wants to win the race.

Anyway, RVV is by far the easiest monument for the strongest rider to win. It's pretty hard for a team to do much damage tactically, as the course is so selective itself. It's an exciting race, but also tends to be a bit formulaic. This year, for example, I imagine the peloton gets thinned out on the Muur; a bit more on the Kopppenberg; reduced to a handful of rides on last pass of the Kwaremont and then everyone tries to drop everyone on the Paterberg and solo to the line. With everyone else chasing but not being able to bridge.

I'm not really sure how Quickstep plan to make Sagan lose the race. Sagan just needs to mark GVA and Gilbert. If Terpstra or whoever else goes up the road, then he can work with GVA to bring them back and should do so pretty comfortably given how strong those two are.

 

[kingjr]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen- April 2 -

8 million refugees in Australia since 1950s and 7 million can't speak English. Italians who migrated here 60 years ago can say yes or no, I'll call it tour of Italy and I'll call it the tour of Flanders.

I take it you are fluent in aboriginal languages then.

Would it be particularly useful?

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quick-step-on-sagan-we-try-to-win-but-if-we-dont-win-then-he-loses/

So if QS's plan to win fails, the secondary goal would be to make sure Sagan loses? How pathetic is this?

What an idiot. He can be saved only by Gilbert now, GVA wins he looks like an idiot, Sagan wins he looks like an king of idiots. His odds are pretty bad.

Just mind games isn't it; trying to avoid the same kind of ridiculous stand-off that happened last week. Basically telling Sagan that he will have to do more work if he wants to win the race.

Anyway, RVV is by far the easiest monument for the strongest rider to win. It's pretty hard for a team to do much damage tactically, as the course is so selective itself. It's an exciting race, but also tends to be a bit formulaic. This year, for example, I imagine the peloton gets thinned out on the Muur; a bit more on the Kopppenberg; reduced to a handful of rides on last pass of the Kwaremont and then everyone tries to drop everyone on the Paterberg and solo to the line. With everyone else chasing but not being able to bridge.

I'm not really sure how Quickstep plan to make Sagan lose the race. Sagan just needs to mark GVA and Gilbert. If Terpstra or whoever else goes up the road, then he can work with GVA to bring them back and should do so pretty comfortably given how strong those two are.

i agree, P-R will be much better suited for what quickstep wants to do, even tho i fully expect them to bottle it anyway and imanol erviti to solo win or some other obscure rider :lol:

 

[Billie]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quick-step-on-sagan-we-try-to-win-but-if-we-dont-win-then-he-loses/

So if QS's plan to win fails, the secondary goal would be to make sure Sagan loses? How pathetic is this?

only guy on their team that can follow the best doesn't give a damn about team orders.

And he surely would much prefer to see Sagan win than GVA.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

And he surely would much prefer to see Sagan win than GVA.

I'm pretty certain Phil would prefer to see himself to win than either PS or GVA .....

but I get your point: Phil is perhaps not the guy who would happily follow some destructive race orders, which in this case, as QSF is clearly the strongest team on overall, would be completely silly ....

I mean last year's Paris-Roubaix Etixx in a team effort (and mainly Tony Martin, who is no longer there) destroyed the chances of both Peter Sagan and Fabian Cancellara, but not in a destructive way ... if they play such kind of tactics that would be fair and ok - another Niki-Terpstra-gamble however would be idiotic ....

 

[yaco]

QS has proven to be a tactically inept team in the classics in recent years - With a talented squad they should always aim to get their third or fourth or fifth best rider in the break - That way they have a chance if the break stays away but more importantly they do less work in the earlier parts of the race - This should allow them to have 2 or 3 support riders in the last 40km of RVV or PR - Especially when in recent years they've been blown out of the water on the last couple of climbs - I can guarantee that if Gilbert breaks clear with Sagan, he'll not only work but he'll back himself to ride Sagan off his wheel.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Tour of Flanders? What's next, you'll call the Giro "Tour of Italy"?

I google Tour of Italy and I get many touristic attractions offers with beautiful landscaping!!!

 

[Brullnux]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen- April 2 -

8 million refugees in Australia since 1950s and 7 million can't speak English. Italians who migrated here 60 years ago can say yes or no, I'll call it tour of Italy and I'll call it the tour of Flanders.

I take it you are fluent in aboriginal languages then.

Would it be particularly useful?

No, but you can have no righteous indignation at others not learning your language in your country when you (and your ancestors) did the same. Well, almost the same. They also killed quite a few.

I'm also not sure where that fact came from, when only about 4 million people living in Australia (19%) do not speak English at home. Most of them undoubtedly also speak English. Pauline Hanson's rhetoric isn't always accurate. Sorry, is never accurate.

 

[kingjr]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen- April 2 -

8 million refugees in Australia since 1950s and 7 million can't speak English. Italians who migrated here 60 years ago can say yes or no, I'll call it tour of Italy and I'll call it the tour of Flanders.

I take it you are fluent in aboriginal languages then.

Would it be particularly useful?

No, but you can have no righteous indignation at others not learning your language in your country when you (and your ancestors) did the same. Well, almost the same. They also killed quite a few.

I think it's actually completely different.

 

[Brullnux]

Why?

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Lol, don't take it so seriously.

But maybe not the smartest thing to do by Sagan to 'provoke' the strongest team in the race when you're gonna be all alone

Remind me again how exactly QS helped Sagan last year? They will be dead after Kwaremont (maybe except for Gilbert)

Don't understand your point? I said QS helped Sagan last year? Where?

 

[kingjr]

Re:

Why?

It's an entirely different situation. People come to a place, if they have the numbers and technology, they don't need to adapt to anyone, they just make it their own. This isn't gonna work for the refugees Scarponi mentioned, however.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Why?

It's an entirely different situation. People come to a place, if they have the numbers and technology, they don't need to adapt to anyone, they just make it their own. This isn't gonna work for the refugees Scarponi mentioned, however.

I understand, but I don't think that people can be angry about one and then just not care about the other.

 

[sir fly]

C'mon, people,... What kind of discussion is this?!
Cultural differences are way to better understanding, not to confrontation.

 

[Hellyea]

Re: Re:

Lol, don't take it so seriously.

But maybe not the smartest thing to do by Sagan to 'provoke' the strongest team in the race when you're gonna be all alone

Remind me again how exactly QS helped Sagan last year? They will be dead after Kwaremont (maybe except for Gilbert)

Don't understand your point? I said QS helped Sagan last year? Where?

I meant that Sagan won no matter what QS did. They are completely irrelevant to him at RVV. They don't have legs to stop him, just like they didn't have them last year. That was my point.

 

[TomLPC]

This one has a real big fight feel to it this year, a proper showdown type atmosphere

Sagan quite visibly angry is good for the race

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Lol, don't take it so seriously.

But maybe not the smartest thing to do by Sagan to 'provoke' the strongest team in the race when you're gonna be all alone

Remind me again how exactly QS helped Sagan last year? They will be dead after Kwaremont (maybe except for Gilbert)

Don't understand your point? I said QS helped Sagan last year? Where?

I meant that Sagan won no matter what QS did. They are completely irrelevant to him at RVV. They don't have legs to stop him, just like they didn't have them last year. That was my point.

Kind of agree, that is Sagan positions well and just concentrates on his own race he shouldn't really be troubled by Quickstep as a team. Just mark GVA and Gilbert - because at least one of those will be at the sharp end of the race. The problem is that they have got inside his head now, and what Quickstep have the ability to do is have a lot of riders make attacks throughout the race. If Sagan ignores them all apart from Gilbert (and GVA) he should be fine. But he's riled right now. If Terpstra or Boonen, for example, launches a ridiculous attack on the Muur a long way from the finish, will Sagan be able to resist the temptation to close it down, wasting energy - only to find they then stop working. Especially if they're winding him up all day in the peloton.

Hopefully his DS sits him down and calms him down, because if he starts the race angry, I think he could get played.

 

[Valv.Piti]

***Sagan, GVA
** Gilbert, Vanmarcke
* Stybar, Terpstra, Kristoff, Degenkolb, Naesen, Rowe, Stuyven, Benoot, Durbo, Trentin