2017 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya, March 20-26, WT

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen. It might not be to everyones liking, especially a certain segment on this forum, but thats just how the route is. It might open up for some other scenarios and lets remember, the race as it was before wasn't exactly riveting racing either with a couple of shallow MTFs and nothing else.

Give it a chance. Maybe this will make for better racing, who knows.

I'm pretty sure you'd be among the moaners if Valverde was on, say, Caja Rural instead.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

European cycling has always been "picturesque," but rulings like this make it seem utterly provincial and farcical.

Is there cycling outside of Europe?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

A lot of moaning about the TTT, but when you see a team like Movistar winning it shows it's not all about having a team full of great TTers. Its a very technical and tactical discipline that requires a lot of hours practising to do well in, and the teams who put the work in deserve their rewards imo.

Plus, it's a way to stop teams from just filling their line-up with climbers, who already have far too much of a dominant role in stage races.

Actually I'd say Movistar winning proves the opposite. Movistar have Valverde, Amador, Oliveira, Castroviejo, Erviti. The first 4 are great TTers and Erviti is a rouleur. Only BMC had a similar team and we saw that because they finished very close. Rather, I'd point to FDJ, the only clear rouleur/ TTer is Ludvigsson and perhaps Le Bon, and they still achieved a decent result.

That's true, with Movistar though it was more about the whole team staying together. Most teams seem to go too hard on the climbs and drop guys who would be useful later; or have some guys stay too long at the front and burn themselves out. Takes a fair bit of practice and preparation to fully understand who needs to work where and when and to still have the whole team contributing throughout the course. Very difficult to get the balance right, as well as technical aspects like not accelerating too hard on your turn and putting other riders in the red. Movistar seem to do it consistently well in the last 2-3 years whichever riders they put out.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen. It might not be to everyones liking, especially a certain segment on this forum, but thats just how the route is. It might open up for some other scenarios and lets remember, the race as it was before wasn't exactly riveting racing either with a couple of shallow MTFs and nothing else.

Give it a chance. Maybe this will make for better racing, who knows.

I'm pretty sure you'd be among the moaners if Valverde was on, say, Caja Rural instead.

Moaning like posting the same over and over and over again in this thread? Probably not, a few posts had been sufficient. Its frankly annoying to read. Pretty much every posts of your in this thread is related to how unfair and stupid a TTT is. We get it man.

Anyways, BMC are clearly worse when it comes to that department. I thought showing was allowed since I see it in every TTT. Especially TJ, uuuugh.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen.

So?

We knew this would likely happen, so there was justified moaning. Then it actually happened, so there was justified moaning.

I know that some people judge a parcours in large part on the basis of which favourite it advantages or disadvantages. I don't really care which of them wins, but I do care about seeing a good race. And this is about as good a way as I've seen to make that unlikely to happen.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen.

So?

We knew this would likely happen, so there was justified moaning. Then it actually happened, so there was justified moaning.

I know that some people judge a parcours in large part on the basis of which favourite it advantages or disadvantages. I don't really care which of them wins, but I do care about seeing a good race. And this is about as good a way as I've seen to make that unlikely to happen.

My point being you don't have to moan about it before, during and after the fact. Its not balanced, nor is it fair, but does it have to be all the time? Not in my book.

Lets wait and see what these gaps will mean. Maybe tomorrow will be ridden completely different than usual by some riders, for example.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen. It might not be to everyones liking, especially a certain segment on this forum, but thats just how the route is. It might open up for some other scenarios and lets remember, the race as it was before wasn't exactly riveting racing either with a couple of shallow MTFs and nothing else.

Give it a chance. Maybe this will make for better racing, who knows.

I'm pretty sure you'd be among the moaners if Valverde was on, say, Caja Rural instead.

Moaning like posting the same over and over and over again in this thread? Probably not, a few posts had been sufficient. Its frankly annoying to read. Pretty much every posts of your in this thread is related to how unfair and stupid a TTT is. We get it man.

Anyways, BMC are clearly worse when it comes to that department. I thought showing was allowed since I see it in every TTT. Especially TJ, uuuugh.

I think what most people found questionable about the TTT was the length. Now I don't care who stands to make out, or loose in a TTT, but I do think, as a general rule, they should be relatively short. Otherwise they can be the decisive factor in how the race was won or lost, which appears excessive given a race has but one winner.

 

[Zypherov]

TEAM TIME TRIALS

UCI Regulation 2.5.018 Riders, even of the same team, may not push one another.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Movistar are pretty good in team time trials when push comes to shove.

Edit: Seriously though, no idea if that deserved a punishment, but you can't simply make up your own penalties, I don't care who the judges are.

It does deserve a punishment. That one push could very easily have lost BMC the stage and the associated press and so on. I've read it's also not the only push too.

 

[barmaher]

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

That really wasn't my impression.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

I still hope for a couple of stages to be raced entertainingly for the stage victory. It's not impossible that something exciting could happen in GC, but we are getting towards "and then a giant spider trapped Valverde in her web and everyone on Movistar lost two minutes desperately sawing him free" levels of likelihood.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

The moaning in this thread is funny. When we saw the route we knew this would happen.

So?

We knew this would likely happen, so there was justified moaning. Then it actually happened, so there was justified moaning.

I know that some people judge a parcours in large part on the basis of which favourite it advantages or disadvantages. I don't really care which of them wins, but I do care about seeing a good race. And this is about as good a way as I've seen to make that unlikely to happen.

My point being you don't have to moan about it before, during and after the fact. Its not balanced, nor is it fair, but does it have to be all the time? Not in my book.

Lets wait and see what these gaps will mean. Maybe tomorrow will be ridden completely different than usual by some riders, for example.

we've now devolved to complaining too much about people complaining too much

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

I still hope for a couple of stages to be raced entertainingly for the stage victory. It's not impossible that something exciting could happen in GC, but we are getting towards "and then a giant spider trapped Valverde in her web and everyone on Movistar lost two minutes desperately sawing him free" levels of likelihood.

Good post. I agree we could still see some battles for stage victories but there's simply no terrain to make up close to or more than a minute on Valverde, especially considering the bonus seconds he can still grab.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

Yea, it could proove for an interesting race now. It's Movistar-Bmc vs. Sky-Trek Segafredo, with the latter having to really turn an aggressive race. With Landa, Froome, Thomas and Mollema, Contador, Pantana the possibility to put riders in breaks and, conversely, Movistar-Bmc needing to control the race, the potential for unforseen outcomes is real.

 

[janraaskalt]

TEAM TIME TRIALS

UCI Regulation 2.5.018 Riders, even of the same team, may not push one another.

I'm sure the rules are meant for pushing to gain time and/or keep someone "on board", not for manual signs like we could see in this TTT. That being said: if it is punishable, the whole team must be penalised.

 

[carolina]

Spanish races really like to ignore UCI rules. Incredible...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I think the moaning is only justified if the next 5 stages are crap. You guys react way too quickly.

I will admit that it is not a great route, but to write off the rest of the race before it has even happened is not really a good plan.

Lots of people wrote off the final stage in Paris Nice for instance. And the stage in which Tom Dumoulin cracked in the Vuelta. And I guess some people (including me) wouldn't have anticipated Fuente De.

Yep. And they likely will be more entertaining than usually given so many good climbers are far down the GC.

 

[portugal11]

The uci's rules say that all movistar riders should be penalized in 1 minute for each push. Were 3 push in total, so 3 minutes to the 8 movistar riders. What a joke is uci!!!

 

[DFA123]

TEAM TIME TRIALS

UCI Regulation 2.5.018 Riders, even of the same team, may not push one another.

I'm sure the rules are meant for pushing to gain time and/or keep someone "on board", not for manual signs like we could see in this TTT. That being said: if it is punishable, the whole team must be penalised.

I was wondering this. It seems there's a distinction between pushing to help a rider, and giving them a tap so they don't cut in across your front wheel. I'm sure the UCI make a lot of these laws deliberately vague so they can apply them as they fit.

That said, the punishment is a bit strange. UCI regulations say a 1 minute penalty for every team member for pushing in a TT - so I guess the penalty is for something else officially.

 

[Publicus]

TEAM TIME TRIALS

UCI Regulation 2.5.018 Riders, even of the same team, may not push one another.

I'm sure the rules are meant for pushing to gain time and/or keep someone "on board", not for manual signs like we could see in this TTT. That being said: if it is punishable, the whole team must be penalised.

I was wondering this. It seems there's a distinction between pushing to help a rider, and giving them a tap so they don't cut in across your front wheel. I'm sure the UCI make a lot of these laws deliberately vague so they can apply them as they fit.

That said, the punishment is a bit strange. UCI regulations say a 1 minute penalty for every team member for pushing in a TT - so I guess the penalty is for something else officially.

Nope. He's literally taking one for the team. Is the Comissaires' ruling final? It seems to me they've simply gotten it wrong in the application of the punishment. Unless he's creating an exception here, which is that Rojas was pushing because he was gassed, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense tbh.

The president of the UCI commissaires, Ernesto Maggioni, confirmed to a small group of reporters at the press room of the Volta a Catalnya that two teams, BMC Racing and Trek-Segafredo, had protested after the stage, won by Movistar with an advantage of two seconds on BMC Racing.
“Valverde is the new leader. He already knows,” Maggioni said. “We have seen the images on the TV and they show clearly that Rojas pushes the other riders, and that’s forbidden during a race. Each time he pushes, he gets a minute’s penalty, as well as a fine for doing so.
“Rojas was pushing. He was the last in the line and his teammates are dropping back and he pushes them to take his place in the line because he was on the edge. That’s forbidden.”

 

[hrotha]

In that case, surely BMC can file an appeal or a complaint or something and get this righted?

 

[Alv23]

From a Trek rider: "When we passed the finish line I had a good feeling. We had worked well together. We lost two guys in the first 10-kilometers, I think, but after we stayed together with six until the finish. We saw the parcours five times, so there was nothing we did wrong."
So 30 km with 6 guys, is not a very bad time

 

[DFA123]

Re:

In that case, surely BMC can file an appeal or a complaint or something and get this righted?

Doubt it will be listened to - UCI just follows rules like guidelines it seems. If a big name rider is potentially involved they are usually twisted and throw someone else under the bus. Just like when they ignored valid complaints about BMC cheating by riding on sidewalks when GVA won Omloop.

 

[Billie]

lol honestly every ttt there are many guys at the back of the train who give their teammates a pat to warn them that they have to get back in line

haven't seen the images yet so would appreciate if anyone can tell me at what point it happened