2017 Worlds BERGEN, NORWAY, RR ELITE, SUN 24th 277KM!

[axl]

I've tried to undersand what happened during the blackout from the helicopter footage. I'm not 100% sure but this is what I got, begining from the short cobbled section where Alaf attacked Mocon :

1) alaphilippe in front, then moscon, the duo kiryienka/postlberger just in front of the peloton led by valgren
2) Valgern comes back on postberger and stop working a little after
3) swift attack, folowed by lutsenko, Sagan and a colombian (Gav or Uran)
4) bettiol brings the group back (still Alaf, Moson and Kiry up front)
4) Lutsenko goes again, uran tries to bring back but can't
5) A belgium? (not sure) counter, with gaviria in the wheel. They take back Lutsenko and Kiry but Sagan brings everybody back.
6) Gaviria insists with success and Cort makes the jump. They come back on Moscon and Alaphilippe.
7) The group is disorganised. 2/3 guys take short pull (cant identify them).
8) Cort goes alone in the front and Kristoff takes a pull to come back on the 3 others.
9) Then Bettiol takes the lead, comes back on Cort
10) Final sprint.

So Sagan and Kristoff did things before the 300 last meters. Sagan tried to go in a group, and brought back Gaviria the first time. Kristoff took a pull (not a big one, but it was important).

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

I don't remember Geelong actually. 07-10 were some good races, its pretty frustrating that the 'biggest' one day race has been so underwhelming lately.

Aye, those editions were truly great. Only Firenze has been great since. I'm only moderately hopeful for next year, but the two afterwards should be good as well.

That race was fairly interesting because:
1) Breakaway almost lapped the field, which would've eliminated them
2) Peak Gilbert got a huge lead on the climb and almost pulled off an incredible solo.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

I'm starting to think a shorter distance on a more selective course would shake things up. The six hours of riding seems to stifle proper racing, and for the last few years is simple attrition.

Yes, after a long, hard season, we need an ambush course

 

[Pantani_lives]

Re:

I've tried to undersand what happened during the blackout from the helicopter footage. I'm not 100% sure but this is what I got, begining from the short cobbled section where Alaf attacked Mocon :

5) A belgium? (not sure) counter, with gaviria in the wheel.

I think that was Gilbert.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

I've tried to undersand what happened during the blackout from the helicopter footage. I'm not 100% sure but this is what I got, begining from the short cobbled section where Alaf attacked Mocon :

1) alaphilippe in front, then moscon, the duo kiryienka/postlberger just in front of the peloton led by valgren
2) Valgern comes back on postberger and stop working a little after
3) swift attack, folowed by lutsenko, Sagan and a colombian (Gav or Uran)
4) bettiol brings the group back (still Alaf, Moson and Kiry up front)
4) Lutsenko goes again, uran tries to bring back but can't
5) A belgium? (not sure) counter, with gaviria in the wheel. They take back Lutsenko and Kiry but Sagan brings everybody back.
6) Gaviria insists with success and Cort makes the jump. They come back on Moscon and Alaphilippe.
7) The group is disorganised. 2/3 guys take short pull (cant identify them).
8) Cort goes alone in the front and Kristoff takes a pull to come back on the 3 others.
9) Then Bettiol takes the lead, comes back on Cort
10) Final sprint.

So Sagan and Kristoff did things before the 300 last meters. Sagan tried to go in a group, and brought back Gaviria the first time. Kristoff took a pull (not a big one, but it was important).

Thanks for this detective work. Via your inferences, it seems like it would have been a great finale. Cool to see such quality sprinters out on the attack.....

 

[LaFlorecita]

sounds like a very interesting final 3km indeed

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Jacket, causing crash!

 

[dutchdescent]

Helicopter images last 4 km.
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/twitter/?title=Last+4+Km+Elite+Men's+RR+-+shot+from+the+helicopter&dashboard=road-cycling-world-championships&id=CyclingHubTV/status/912018053927489539&yr=2017

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I don't remember Geelong actually. 07-10 were some good races, its pretty frustrating that the 'biggest' one day race has been so underwhelming lately.

Aye, those editions were truly great. Only Firenze has been great since. I'm only moderately hopeful for next year, but the two afterwards should be good as well.

Don't get your hopes up for 2019. Harrogate doesn't have much potential for a good circuit.

Also Vicenza won't be a great circuit with Monte Berico just at the beginning. And the second ramp i doubt will be approved because it's a very narrow goat track where a car can hardly pass.

Wait I thought we were in for some typical Yorkshire murito type circuit and Berico the next year again. If not then it will be just be a good final lap and pretty much nothing else as per tradition on relatively easy courses.

 

[Echoes]

All the salty Sagan haters should watch how he actually managed to work on the front and drastically helped to bridge the breakaway.

Lol

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

Both times it's a joke to disqualify. It's something that:
a) is inconsequential, because Moscon would have come back anyway
b) is done by everybody, just that if you are a domestique nobody cares
c) is an unwritten rule of cycling

Let me ask one thing. Is it fair to be pushed during a mountain stage? Have you ever been watching live a mountain stage? How many sprinters should be disqualified?!

It would be great if the riders and teams now get nervous when they use 1 minute sticky bottles and other tricks. It's cheating at its most obvious, and goes against the nature of the sport. I don't care about sprinters who find mountain stages tough.

a) Moscon was towed along on a hill at a critical juncture of the race. He wasn't pedaling, hence he was saving energy--energy that his competitors were using after riding more than 250 km's. Imagine if the video of him getting a tow surfaced after winning the race. There would be a huge uproar.
He should have been dq'd right then and there.
b) sprinters getting a push on mountain stages of grand tours are part of cycling lore. They's just trying to make the time cut and are not influencing the race in any way whatsoever.
Also, I'm sure most riders would tell you that getting a push up a steep pitch is detrimental rather than beneficial. It totally throws off whatever rhythm you have trying to get over a hill.

It is detrimental if it is a 3'' push. I've personally seen top sprinters being pushed for 20-30'' on tough hills like Tre Cime di Lavaredo. I've personally seen Quintana pulling a motorbike on Mount Ventoux (I'm in this video...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m61JRKTDdY8

What Moscon did is nothing more than a longish sticky bottle.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Both times it's a joke to disqualify. It's something that:
a) is inconsequential, because Moscon would have come back anyway
b) is done by everybody, just that if you are a domestique nobody cares
c) is an unwritten rule of cycling

Let me ask one thing. Is it fair to be pushed during a mountain stage? Have you ever been watching live a mountain stage? How many sprinters should be disqualified?!

It would be great if the riders and teams now get nervous when they use 1 minute sticky bottles and other tricks. It's cheating at its most obvious, and goes against the nature of the sport. I don't care about sprinters who find mountain stages tough.

a) Moscon was towed along on a hill at a critical juncture of the race. He wasn't pedaling, hence he was saving energy--energy that his competitors were using after riding more than 250 km's. Imagine if the video of him getting a tow surfaced after winning the race. There would be a huge uproar.
He should have been dq'd right then and there.
b) sprinters getting a push on mountain stages of grand tours are part of cycling lore. They's just trying to make the time cut and are not influencing the race in any way whatsoever.
Also, I'm sure most riders would tell you that getting a push up a steep pitch is detrimental rather than beneficial. It totally throws off whatever rhythm you have trying to get over a hill.

It is detrimental if it is a 3'' push. I've personally seen top sprinters being pushed for 20-30'' on tough hills like Tre Cime di Lavaredo. I've personally seen Quintana pulling a motorbike on Mount Ventoux (I'm in this video...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m61JRKTDdY8

What Moscon did is nothing more than a longish sticky bottle.

You can excuse cheating anyway you want ....but it was blatant cheating
What is more anyone who condones that should seriously think again.....certainly has no legs to stand on in regards to other forms of cheating ....but then some people will excuse anything if its a favourite rider

Moscon should have been throw out of the race at the point he cheated
He went on to influence that outcome of the race....massive issue

And this whole argument about sprinters getting a push on mountian is just a smokescreen...They are not influencing the outcome of the race, it is hard to stop fans pushing riders plus it is not a deliberate act by the rider and the support car to gain an advantage

As for Moscon ...what a find...eh ?

Racist and cheater in one year

 

[Echoes]

Neither of the two in the same year or else prove it.

 

[HelloDolly]

Neither of the two in the same year or else prove it.

what are you talking about

Moscon suspended for racist abuse this year ...by his own team...though should ahve been sanctioned by UCI imo
Moscon DSQ from Worlds for cheating this year....what more proof is required

 

[Robert5091]

Sagan wins - not bad for a "sick" guy. AG2R must think of Moscon's DQ as some "instant karma". TV really messed up the final kms. Not good for their hope of getting TdF.

 

[Echoes]

Moscon suspended for racist abuse this year ...by his own team...though should ahve been sanctioned by UCI imo
Moscon DSQ from Worlds for cheating this year....what more proof is required

Both times it was unfair. Nobody knows what he actually said and he claimed he was innocent. Disqualified for being towed after a crash, which until very recently has always been tolerated.

 

[SKSemtex]

Moscon suspended for racist abuse this year ...by his own team...though should ahve been sanctioned by UCI imo
Moscon DSQ from Worlds for cheating this year....what more proof is required

Both times it was unfair. Nobody knows what he actually said and he claimed he was innocent. Disqualified for being towed after a crash, which until very recently has always been tolerated.

Sometimes it is hard to tell if you are just trolling or you are completely ignorant. :surprised:
It is pity as you know a lot about the cycling and I respect your opinions and your comments as long GVA and Sagan are not involved.

 

[Echoes]

And so that was just a comment involving Moscon...

 

[Angliru]

Moscon suspended for racist abuse this year ...by his own team...though should ahve been sanctioned by UCI imo
Moscon DSQ from Worlds for cheating this year....what more proof is required

Both times it was unfair. Nobody knows what he actually said and he claimed he was innocent. Disqualified for being towed after a crash, which until very recently has always been tolerated.

Unfair? He was caught on camera receiving a tow up a climb while the rider that he took out in the crash was left to bridge solo where had he taken the ethical route they could've been working together.

 

[puckno]

Re:

TV really messed up the final kms. Not good for their hope of getting TdF.

So, what happened... It was not the television productions that messed up. They had backup solutions for 'almost everything' at this WC. What happened was that a large 11kV high voltage cable in the power grid broke down. This caused a power outage in a large area in Bergen city, including the area of the Mount Floyen. Unfortunately the transmitters for the television signals from 5 of the cameras during the race happened to be at the top of Mount Floyen. The probability of this happening at the exact same time as the last 3 kilomterers of a WC final in Bergen is extremely low. It was a case of some very bad luck, in a scenario difficult to predict.

 

[Echoes]

It's bad luck for that other rider. What does that change? Of course the fact it was uphill is a problem but initially there was bad luck.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think almost anyone with high ambitions would do something like Moscon did there and lets not forget it probably was Cassani who encouraged him to grab the car. The DQ was fair, but lets not make it worse than it is. Moscon is no saint, but I don't buy into all the Moscon-trashing as off late altho I do get why a lot of people dislike him (the racism, but also Sky).

 

[Echoes]

What I don't understand is why Sky riders trigger so much more hate than former Tinkoff riders or Quick Step riders, just to name a few despicable teams.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What I don't understand is why Sky riders trigger so much more hate than former Tinkoff riders or Quick Step riders, just to name a few despicable teams.

Thats just the way it is, I guess. Sky is probably the most easy team to dislike in the peloton right now, generally speaking. Richest team, dominating GT's in a boring way (had it just been good racing I would have had no problems) and their PR strategy probably also have a lot to do with it. Marginal gains and all that jazz.

 

[Angliru]

What I don't understand is why Sky riders trigger so much more hate than former Tinkoff riders or Quick Step riders, just to name a few despicable teams.

The "wholier than thou" attitude, transparent, marginal gains, smarter than the rest, revolutionary training techniques, stated goal of dominating the sport, the constant insulting of our intelligence, SDB, SBW, "Froomey!" ....the list could fill an entire page of a thread.