2018 Gent-Wevelgem, Deinze › Wevelgem (251.1k) - March 25

[vedrafjord]

I think that was a good race and criticising individual riders is poor form to an extent. There was so much bravery, from the guys in the original break who held on, to the ones who bridged across, to the Astana guys who tried to rejoin and the doomed Kristoff in-between chase, to Gilbert being like a boss on the front, etc etc. Sagan is the most marked man in cycling. I don't blame him for sitting in.

 

[Durden93]

Great win for Sagan. I don’t understand QSF’s tactics. They seemed too wait far too long to try and use their numbers.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

Great win for Sagan. I don’t understand QSF’s tactics. They seemed too wait far too long to try and use their numbers.

It looked to me like they had wanted to give this win to Viviani. They could win if they played their cars different way. It almost looked like they were not allowed to attack. (Gilbert attack) They were "all for Viviani" .He knew it. This was his rare chance and reason he was crying probably at the end.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Where did I say Gilbert's WC win was an example of aggressive riding?

i don't care if a cyclist rides passive by the way, but don't make the kind of statements Sagan has lately made then ("I wouldn't want to win like Kwiatko or "I don't care about victories, the show is more important").

You're all completely misunderstanding me. I'm NOT upset with how Sagan won the race, but the comments he makes after he loses a race.

Arguing for the sake of arguing...
You were a history major, weren't you?

Easy now, El Pickle is a minor.

This explains so much.

 

[Robert5091]

It was QS's to lose and they did - chapeau Sagan! (good to see he had 1 teammate at the pointy end of the race). The 2 Rompoot guys deserve a mention for hanging in there.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Great win for Sagan. I don’t understand QSF’s tactics. They seemed too wait far too long to try and use their numbers.

It looked to me like they had wanted to give this win to Viviani. They could win if they played their cars different way. It almost looked like they were not allowed to attack. (Gilbert attack) They were "all for Viviani" .He knew it. This was his rare chance and reason he was crying probably at the end.

Yes, as much was stated by Lefevere. I think they should've designated at least one guy to go solo the last 5 km or so (Lampaert would be my choice), because with so many fast legs still there, betting fully on Viviani was very risky. The others didn't have the teammates to keep bringing moves back, so it could've worked.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: 2018 Gent-Wevelgem, Deinze › Wevelgem (251.1k) - March 2

Somehow el trollero always manages to bait people into his trolling.

Allthough in his eyes it's not trolling.

 

[Kwibus]

Performance of the day clearly were the 2 roompot riders.

First time roompot put up a good show.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

I don't see GvA or Gilbert as pure classics guys. I think endurance is more like a quality that preserves the rest of your qualities during a hard race and how quickly you recover from over threshold efforts during a race.

I have to disagree with that. To me, Gilbert and GVA are the very definition of classics specialists. Neither are close to challenging to the win at most stage races, bunch sprint or TTs. Yet put them in a classic - any type of classic - and they are dominant absolute beasts.

Of course, endurance is a huge part of that, and particularly ability to do repeated anaeorobic efforts. But if they are not pure classics guys, then who is?

Agree that Gilbert is a true classic specialist. Has Greg ever shown his class outside the cobbled classics? Always inivisible in San Remo, LBL, Lombardia. Never dominant in WC's. He won the ORR in a spectacular although very lucky fashion though. But I wouldn't say he is dominant wherever he goes. He is just okay wherever he goes.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

All today showed is Sagan's is the best wheel to follow in a sprint finish - He has excellent racing instincts and rarely gets it wrong.

No it didn't. This proved nothing about his racing instinct - which still caries huge question marks.

All it showed was that he is perfectly suited to races which are very hard for pure sprinters, but not hard enough for proper classics riders.

Quite a narrow niche, but one which has netted him three World Championships already, so at least he's making the most of it.

Way take my post out of context. My post is referring to the finish of a large sprint. Sagan has shown time and time again he gets into the right position. It's rare to see him boxed in during a sprint finish.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

(...) To me, Gilbert and GVA are the very definition of classics specialists. Neither are close to challenging to the win at most stage races, bunch sprint or TTs. (...)

Gilbert won 1 stage in TdF, 3 stages at Giro and 5 stages at Vuelta, besides also winning minor tours like Tour of Belgium ... GvA won 2 stages at TdF plus wore the yellow jersey and won the Tirreno Adriatico and some minor tours ...
I wouldn't call that "nowhere close to challenging for the win" ...
clearly both made more history in classics than in tours, but the vast majority of riders out there would be more than proud just having the palmarès of either of them even without any of the classics and monument wins ...

 

[loge1884]

in the last 5km I was hoping for two things equally:
1. a win by Peter (ok, you may call me a fanboy)
2. no win or even podium by Michael Matthews

to point 2.: If I am not mistaken, Matthews was the only rider (besides Viviani, but the latter had 2 teammates doing the work) of the leading group after Kemmelberg, who was never out there in the wind ... once I think erronously and he immediately started gesturing something like "guys, I am the patented wheelsucker here, please do your jobs" ...

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

in the last 5km I was hoping for two things equally:
1. a win by Peter (ok, you may call me a fanboy)
2. no win or even podium by Michael Matthews

to point 2.: If I am not mistaken, Matthews was the only rider (besides Viviani, but the latter had 2 teammates doing the work) of the leading group after Kemmelberg, who was never out there in the wind ... once I think erronously and he immediately started gesturing something like "guys, I am the patented wheelsucker here, please do your jobs" ...

He did work when the group formed. Riders like stuyven really did nothing.

Besides they didnt have to work, so whatever.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

in the last 5km I was hoping for two things equally:
1. a win by Peter (ok, you may call me a fanboy)
2. no win or even podium by Michael Matthews

to point 2.: If I am not mistaken, Matthews was the only rider (besides Viviani, but the latter had 2 teammates doing the work) of the leading group after Kemmelberg, who was never out there in the wind ... once I think erronously and he immediately started gesturing something like "guys, I am the patented wheelsucker here, please do your jobs" ...

He did work when the group formed. Riders like stuyven really did nothing.

Besides they didnt have to work, so whatever.

Exactly. Besides, you really can't tell who is working just by looking on TV. A rider who just rolls through, but doesn't actually increase their watts when they hit the front is damaging the momentum of the group as much, if not more than, a rider who just sits off the back and doesn't get involved in the paceline.

Which is why riders in chasing groups who have teammates up the road often get involved in the line to hinder the efforts of the chasers.

And there were certainly guys there who looked good on camera, pulled all the right faces, but were actually just soft pedalling their turns.

 

[rades]

Re:

in the last 5km I was hoping for two things equally:
1. a win by Peter (ok, you may call me a fanboy)
2. no win or even podium by Michael Matthews

to point 2.: If I am not mistaken, Matthews was the only rider (besides Viviani, but the latter had 2 teammates doing the work) of the leading group after Kemmelberg, who was never out there in the wind ... once I think erronously and he immediately started gesturing something like "guys, I am the patented wheelsucker here, please do your jobs" ...

Maybe he just didn't have the legs, and knew sitting on was his only chance of getting a result.
There is no obligation to work in a group, but almost all of the time it makes sense to make some effort or else your group mates will get pissed and start attacking to drop you.
With the size of that group yesterday, and with four QS and two Bora in there I'd have gambled sitting on the back too.
QS should have at least attacked a couple of times to at least to try soften up or drop the other sprinters or isolate Sagan from Burghardt.

 

[WheelofGear]

Re:

in the last 5km I was hoping for two things equally:
1. a win by Peter (ok, you may call me a fanboy)
2. no win or even podium by Michael Matthews

to point 2.: If I am not mistaken, Matthews was the only rider (besides Viviani, but the latter had 2 teammates doing the work) of the leading group after Kemmelberg, who was never out there in the wind ... once I think erronously and he immediately started gesturing something like "guys, I am the patented wheelsucker here, please do your jobs" ...

Exactly. Matthews is just such an unspectacular rider. How can you cheer for him? It's like rooting for Majka, another rider who refuses to work but will gladly attack or oursprint his tired companions.

 

[SafeBet]

Matthews has been a much better racer after moving to Sunweb. He was great last year in the Tour.
I wouldn't blame him for not trying in GW since he was probably spent (very few racing days thus far in the season).

 

[Bardamu]

Yeah, people seem to forget Matthews' performance in last years' TdF.

Don't really understand why people think he is that unlikeable, not more or less than most other riders.

 

[DonEsteban]

Re: 2018 Gent-Wevelgem, Deinze › Wevelgem (251.1k) - March 2

As Sagan has been a godsend for GVA, he has been the bane for Matthews.

Matthews has had a sympathetic Tour last year, when not living under the shade of Sagan.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Re:

Matthews has been a much better racer after moving to Sunweb. He was great last year in the Tour.
I wouldn't blame him for not trying in GW since he was probably spent (very few racing days thus far in the season).

This. Just look at his abysmal sprint here. He was going backwards. Still a lot of race/training kilometres lacking.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

(...)

Maybe he just didn't have the legs, and knew sitting on was his only chance of getting a result.
There is no obligation to work in a group,

I was not saying wheelsucking is tactically always wrong ... I'm just saying, I would always hope for someone winning who was brave and generous in his efforts ....
and yes as Matthews didn't even try to sprint, he obviously didn't have the legs, so I wouldn't hold his attitude in this race against him ... he just has some history in being in stealth mode in groups and then all over sudden finding some extra energy in the last 100m ...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Late to the party, but why didn't Quickstep send one or two guys out? They had the numbers. Either they stayed ahead, or they would have served the other helpers in the bunch up, still having two (or three) guys left to bring Viviani in case of a sprint... Not sure it would have made a difference, seeing as it turned out the way it did (they didn't even manage to bring Viviani with 4 guys leading out), but i was wondering why they didn't take control.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Matthews said he was totally empty. Running on fumes. It's logical after the fall in Omloop.

I'm actually baffled he came so far in both MSR and GW.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Matthews said he was totally empty. Running on fumes. It's logical after the fall in Omloop.

I'm actually baffled he came so far in both MSR and GW.

He said he’s had 4 race days this year, all over 200kms. It’s an odd schedule, but with his injury it just has to be that way. Making the front group in GW is seriously impressive with a shoulder that he broke just a month ago.

QS’s strategy for the race was fine (get Elia to the finish, let him outsprint everyone) but their tactics in the final straight were wrong. Someone (Lampaert or Stybar) needed to be there to prevent Viviani getting boxed in. When Vanmarcke attacked, he got stuck by the barriers inside Modolo and Demare so couldn’t react to Sagan on the left. He certainly had the speed

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

QS’s strategy for the race was fine (get Elia to the finish, let him outsprint everyone) but their tactics in the final straight were wrong. Someone (Lampaert or Stybar) needed to be there to prevent Viviani getting boxed in. When Vanmarcke attacked, he got stuck by the barriers inside Modolo and Demare so couldn’t react to Sagan on the left. He certainly had the speed

I have to disagree there. There is never a guarantee that Viviani is going to win that sprint against Sagan and Demare after 250k. They had nothing to lose with sending one or two guys ahead and let the other teams empty their plates in the persuit, because they would still be outmanning the competition in the bunch in case the attack didn't pan out.