2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259km

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well he would've been back in the downhill sooner. But he still wouldn't be with the first three. He said they went too fast on the climb and he said he knew he would blow (like Moscon and Alaphilippe) if he tried to follow. Dumoulin is very good in knowing his own limits.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

That literally makes no sense. Unless the first group caught a train or something.

Not sure why some Dutch fans are having such a hard time accepting their tactical flaws today. I mean, its far from the first time its happened with the likes of Dumoulin and Mollema.

It makes every bit of sense.

That's how cycling works.

If the break needs to get caught or brought back, the pace is higher than when it's not so far away.

Do you know why the peloton sometimes lets a break dangle at a minute in the last 20km of a sprint stage. Because people will attack if they bring it back with 15km to go.

Obviously, he's taking about the part where the break gets 20 minutes. Not the part where the peloton needs to close the 20 minute gap.

Indeed.

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen - I can kind of believe Mollema would say something like this, but am surprised to see it reproduced as an argument on a forum like this. Firstly because it makes no sense. And secondly because everyone could see clear as day that the peloton completely soft pedalled the first 100km - hence the 20 minute gap.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

That literally makes no sense. Unless the first group caught a train or something.

Not sure why some Dutch fans are having such a hard time accepting their tactical flaws today. I mean, its far from the first time its happened with the likes of Dumoulin and Mollema.

It makes every bit of sense.

That's how cycling works.

If the break needs to get caught or brought back, the pace is higher than when it's not so far away.

Do you know why the peloton sometimes lets a break dangle at a minute in the last 20km of a sprint stage. Because people will attack if they bring it back with 15km to go.

Obviously, he's taking about the part where the break gets 20 minutes. Not the part where the peloton needs to close the 20 minute gap.

Indeed.

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen - I can kind of believe Mollema would say something like this, but am surprised to see it reproduced as an argument on a forum like this. Firstly because it makes no sense. And secondly because everyone could see clear as day that the peloton completely soft pedalled the first 100km - hence the 20 minute gap.

Okay, but please tell me

WHERE SHOULD THEY ATTACK ON THE FIRST 100KM

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Obviously, he's taking about the part where the break gets 20 minutes. Not the part where the peloton needs to close the 20 minute gap.

Indeed.

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen - I can kind of believe Mollema would say something like this, but am surprised to see it reproduced as an argument on a forum like this. Firstly because it makes no sense. And secondly because everyone could see clear as day that the peloton completely soft pedalled the first 100km - hence the 20 minute gap.

Okay, but please tell me

WHERE SHOULD THEY ATTACK ON THE FIRST 100KM

Not sure what you're doing here, but I think I'll side step this strange straw man question. Of course they shouldn't attack in the first 100km. I don't think anyone has suggested they do that.

edit. I see below that Leinster has now suggested it. I assumed it must be sarcasm, but looking through the posting history, I'm not so sure. :Neutral:

 

[Leinster]

You're not getting it, Red Rick, Kruiswijk should have attacked on the first climb up Igls, just like his ride to Alpe d'Huez this year. If he had done that, Tom Dumoulin would be World Champion right now. Or Keldermann would be. Or Tolhoek. Or Mollema. Or Gesink, even if he didn't start. Or vdPoel, because he can win any bike race he wants to.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Well he would've been back in the downhill sooner. But he still wouldn't be with the first three. He said they went too fast on the climb and he said he knew he would blow (like Moscon and Alaphilippe) if he tried to follow. Dumoulin is very good in knowing his own limits.

This makes sense. He knows his limits and how fast he can climb any given climb. Better to ride within your limit than to go into the red and blow up. At least that he gave himself the best shot he had.

[quote="tobydawq":3u7hjiqr]Regarding the podium cameo by Sagan, he said the following of the situation to Danish TV:

"I went up there because I'm proud to have been world champion three times and because I'm very happy to pass the jersey on to Valverde. It was a beautiful moment, also for me, as I think he will defend the jersey excellently the coming year. I don't think I'm at his level. He's successful with everything he does in his career, and I think it's very, very good for him and cycling that he got the jersey."

Very nice words.

He spoke just like he rides, classy![/quote]

Very classy and nice words from Sagan. Thank you Peter for those comments.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

More about the insane pace, which ofcourse DFA brushes off as nonsense because it's DFA:

"Commenting on a challenging day for the British riders0 Kennaugh said: "That was way harder than expected. It was just raced full gas from the start, even the break took long to go for a World Championships, and then the pace was just really hard for every lap on the climb.

 

[franic]

Re:

The best worlds, I've ever witnessed in my round 40 years watching. That includes the U23 race, the womens race, junior races and the elite mens race, the views, the dramas, all the things.
For the elite race I cannot sum up all my emotions.
Congrats to Austria!

Nice WC, but not amazing. I remember WC from the late 80s (I’ve rewatched many earlier WC on YouTube but I do not have a vivid memory of them). I’d say that Chambery1989, Utsonomya 1990, Oslo 1993, Duitama 1995, Varese 2008, Florence 2013 have been more interesting than today. I still see Florence 2013 as an almost perfect course and I believe everybody should learn from that WC. But I need to admit that this WC was interesting.

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

I'm pretty indifferent about Valverde, but based on his incredible career, he earned it the most out of those 4 to become world champion. So I'm happy about the outcome.

Overall this was a more than enjoyable race.

It could have been better without the Murito, IMHO. Anyway best WC since Florence

Why? The Murito ensured that the race is selective. Surely it will be a 10 man bunch sprint had not for the murito

No. The Murito just guaranteed that nobody (but Valgreen) had the guts to attack on the penultimate climb. Think about how the Amstel Gold race was with the old finish on the Cauberg and how it is now. Which one is more likely to arrive with a bunch sprint?

 

[franic]

Re:

More about the insane pace, which ofcourse DFA brushes off as nonsense because it's DFA:

"Commenting on a challenging day for the British riders0 Kennaugh said: "That was way harder than expected. It was just raced full gas from the start, even the break took long to go for a World Championships, and then the pace was just really hard for every lap on the climb.

Maybe that’s true but it’s starting to be hard to believe that in every single race riders have similar comments saying that it was too hard and nobody could do anything more. It may be because people are using less the clinc than then, but I don’t see anybody like Bettini attacking every lap in WC that were won with higher average speeds.

 

[zlev11]

about 17 guys attacked on the penultimate time up the Igls climb and then Valgren made a very strong attack the last time. what else do you guys want? i agree that placing the steep climb earlier in the race would've been better but there was almost always someone trying to get away in the last 50km. i think we got about the maximum quality of race that we could've expected from this route.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

about 17 guys attacked on the penultimate time up the Igls climb and then Valgren made a very strong attack the last time. what else do you guys want? i agree that placing the steep climb earlier in the race would've been better but there was almost always someone trying to get away in the last 50km. i think we got about the maximum quality of race that we could've expected from this route.

Yes, too many here look at the glass being half-empty. When too many times, the post-race discussions are about lead-out, rider X launching his sprint 50m too early, or rider Y being boxed-in.

I agree that the murito at the very least didn't encourage attacks, but as you point out, there were attacks. If possible (I bet that our Austrian friends on the forum can design that stretch in less than 4 minutes), putting the murito as second-to-last, with Igls as the last climb would have made for a more interesting final. Maybe...we'll never know. What we know is that it was a tough Man course, that it was entertaining, and that the best rider on the day won. No luck here. What more can we ask for?

And for the record, even in '18, team La Vie Pas Claire wins plenty .

 

[The Hegelian]

I'm fine with a parcours like this every once in a while. And if there's one single rider in the entire peloton who truly deserves the rainbow stripes, it's Valverde. Completes his palmares very justly in the twilight of his career.

I think the whole week has been pretty good.

 

[OldCranky]

Re:

You're not getting it, Red Rick, Kruiswijk should have attacked on the first climb up Igls, just like his ride to Alpe d'Huez this year. If he had done that, Tom Dumoulin would be World Champion right now. Or Keldermann would be. Or Tolhoek. Or Mollema. Or Gesink, even if he didn't start. Or vdPoel, because he can win any bike race he wants to.

van der Poel could probably run up that climb faster than half the field could ride up it :lol:

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

You're not getting it, Red Rick, Kruiswijk should have attacked on the first climb up Igls, just like his ride to Alpe d'Huez this year. If he had done that, Tom Dumoulin would be World Champion right now. Or Keldermann would be. Or Tolhoek. Or Mollema. Or Gesink, even if he didn't start. Or vdPoel, because he can win any bike race he wants to.

van der Poel could probably run up that climb faster than half the field could ride up it :lol:

He probably kicked the tv watching Dumoulin paperboying up the Holl. "Put it on your shoulder!"

 

[Tonton]

Re: 2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259k

Dumoulin, or what's left of him after a grueling season, honored his flag by giving every bit of what he had left.

Dutch fans should at least take this as a positive IMO.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I'm fine with a parcours like this every once in a while. And if there's one single rider in the entire peloton who truly deserves the rainbow stripes, it's Valverde. Completes his palmares very justly in the twilight of his career.

I think the whole week has been pretty good.

Been a great week of racing with some eye opening performances. Valverde was best on day but and as usual it's a win that splits opinions. Still he can retire tranquil now. Another Vuelta win would have also pleased him but that's not going to happen now. He was two stages off grabbing a podium this year which was probably his best opportunity to hit the podium again at the Vuelta before he eventually retires.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: 2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259k

Dumoulin, or what's left of him after a grueling season, honored his flag by giving every bit of what he had left.

Dutch fans should at least take this as a positive IMO.

That's true but he I think he will tweak his racing schedule next year.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

about 17 guys attacked on the penultimate time up the Igls climb and then Valgren made a very strong attack the last time. what else do you guys want? i agree that placing the steep climb earlier in the race would've been better but there was almost always someone trying to get away in the last 50km. i think we got about the maximum quality of race that we could've expected from this route.

Yes, too many here look at the glass being half-empty. When too many times, the post-race discussions are about lead-out, rider X launching his sprint 50m too early, or rider Y being boxed-in.

There is a problem with complaining in general, in that people think it makes them sound smart.

I think it is something about cycling, where the casual level of participation (fitness, commuting), is so different than the professional aspect. Even the kicking the ball around with your family gets some fans closer to a real match than a weekend ride gets fans here to 260k in Innsbruck.

Between those two factors, this forum is only good for the pre-race hype (hype, not analysis...), play-by-play in race threads, curating news about the athletes, and the occasional "Did you notice..."

[Doesn't this meta-complaint about the forum make me sound so enlightened? :surprised: ]

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

about 17 guys attacked on the penultimate time up the Igls climb and then Valgren made a very strong attack the last time. what else do you guys want? i agree that placing the steep climb earlier in the race would've been better but there was almost always someone trying to get away in the last 50km. i think we got about the maximum quality of race that we could've expected from this route.

Yes, too many here look at the glass being half-empty. When too many times, the post-race discussions are about lead-out, rider X launching his sprint 50m too early, or rider Y being boxed-in.

There is a problem with complaining in general, in that people think it makes them sound smart.

I think it is something about cycling, where the casual level of participation (fitness, commuting), is so different than the professional aspect. Even the kicking the ball around with your family gets some fans closer to a real match than a weekend ride gets fans here to 260k in Innsbruck.

Between those two factors, this forum is only good for the pre-race hype (hype, not analysis...), play-by-play in race threads, curating news about the athletes, and the occasional "Did you notice..."

[Doesn't this meta-complaint about the forum make me sound so enlightened? :surprised: ]

Very true. With the notable exception of easily ridden editions of Milan-San Remo and 220km+ pancake flat Tour stages you need to be having a very good day just to get a seat at the table, let alone a chance to play your cards once you get past 220-230kms in a race like this.

I was never a pro, but I raced NRS long enough to race several editions of races like Melbourne-Warrnambool and Grafton-Inverell to know that you don’t find out if you’ve got the legs to have a real chance until around 200kms in and you don’t want to risk not being there to find out by riding wastefully

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

I was never a pro, but I raced NRS long enough to race several editions of races like Melbourne-Warrnambool and Grafton-Inverell to know that you don’t find out if you’ve got the legs to have a real chance until around 200kms in and you don’t want to risk not being there to find out by riding wastefully

Unless . you're Jacky Durand or Thomas de Gendt, in which case you've already been off the front for 175kms by that point anyway.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I was never a pro, but I raced NRS long enough to race several editions of races like Melbourne-Warrnambool and Grafton-Inverell to know that you don’t find out if you’ve got the legs to have a real chance until around 200kms in and you don’t want to risk not being there to find out by riding wastefully

Unless . you're Jacky Durand or Thomas de Gendt, in which case you've already been off the front for 175kms by that point anyway.

I think I'd add Alessandro De Marchi to that list.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I was never a pro, but I raced NRS long enough to race several editions of races like Melbourne-Warrnambool and Grafton-Inverell to know that you don’t find out if you’ve got the legs to have a real chance until around 200kms in and you don’t want to risk not being there to find out by riding wastefully

Unless . you're Jacky Durand or Thomas de Gendt, in which case you've already been off the front for 175kms by that point anyway.

How many people had Durand as any kind of chance even before he attacked? That’s still one of the biggest outliers in cycling history. And how many 230km+ classics does de Ghendt ride?

 

[Bolder]

I appreciate the passion (and self deprecation!) of the Dutch fans on here. It's hard to believe that a team with Poels/Dumoulin/Mollema/Kruijswijk and Kelderman couldn't figure out a way to neutralize Valverde (and to a lesser extent, the French top 3 -- who pushed the pace at a crucial time). As mentioned, you're never out of it when TD's on your team, however. Guess it comes down to legs at the end but in the back of my mind I thought SK was one of the pre-race favorites, with Bardet, Moscon and Valverde.

Speaking of Bardet, he's got to figure out a way to start winning. Guy is amazingly tough in one-day races but without a sprint or TT skills he's always going to be 2nd-10th at the end if he can make the selection.

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

about 17 guys attacked on the penultimate time up the Igls climb and then Valgren made a very strong attack the last time. what else do you guys want? i agree that placing the steep climb earlier in the race would've been better but there was almost always someone trying to get away in the last 50km. i think we got about the maximum quality of race that we could've expected from this route.

Yes, too many here look at the glass being half-empty. When too many times, the post-race discussions are about lead-out, rider X launching his sprint 50m too early, or rider Y being boxed-in.

There is a problem with complaining in general, in that people think it makes them sound smart.

I think it is something about cycling, where the casual level of participation (fitness, commuting), is so different than the professional aspect. Even the kicking the ball around with your family gets some fans closer to a real match than a weekend ride gets fans here to 260k in Innsbruck.

Between those two factors, this forum is only good for the pre-race hype (hype, not analysis...), play-by-play in race threads, curating news about the athletes, and the occasional "Did you notice..."

[Doesn't this meta-complaint about the forum make me sound so enlightened? :surprised: ]

Maybe many were watching and competing when races were fundamentally different. Have you ever seen how WC used to be won in the golden 90/00s? Take for instance the Bettini years (20003-2008). The guy was the favourite, he was among the best sprinters (he has won group sprints in the Giro) and still was almost inevitably attacking in the penultimate lap! Do you remember Athens 2004? Madrid 2005? Innsbruck 2006? Stuttgart 2007? Ok, maybe those were easy courses. So what about Duitama 1995? Did they wait the last hill? People were dropping like stones lap by lap there. Maybe those times will never come back because of clinical issues, but very few races today are of that level .