2018 Paris - Roubaix

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Terpstra messed it up pretty bad...after attack from Gilbert and Stybar it was his turn..he was the one to follow Sagan. I dont know what he was doing.

Would not have mattered. If he followed then he'd be 2nd instead of 3rd. He would not have been capable of dropping Sagan today.

Terpstra was like 30th wheel at that point anyway, behind a gap, and nowhere near the front.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re:

imagine that...
https://twitter.com/Paris_Roubaix/status/983005255716757504

He looks like a twelve year old Jens Voigt. Be afraid.

 

[May0maniac]

That was a great performance by Sagan, he showed guts.
Dilier, impressive, but horrible tactics, you have to stop puling with 9 or at least with 5km to go.
know, he had Piva as his ds for many years, but its hard to believe that hes that stupid and that the team wouldn't give him better instructions.
Who knows, maybe Sagan just pulled a Vino.

 

[d-s3]

“Peter Sagan was an angel and a devil in the same person,” Dillier said. “I’m happy that he was working with me very well, but he was a devil to be with because he’s hard to beat in a two-man sprint. We have respected each other, but he was better than me in the sprint. I entered first on the velodrome and stayed on the outside. Peter launched at the same time but he accelerated faster than me. I had no chance to beat him. I’m very happy that I was in a position to win, and a little bit disappointed about not winning but I was against the current best rider. I hope to be the winner in the future.”

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Terpstra messed it up pretty bad...after attack from Gilbert and Stybar it was his turn..he was the one to follow Sagan. I dont know what he was doing.

Would not have mattered. If he followed then he'd be 2nd instead of 3rd. He would not have been capable of dropping Sagan today.

Terpstra was like 30th wheel at that point anyway, behind a gap, and nowhere near the front.

That's his way of riding. In Flanders he was 'dropped' multiple times before placing the decisive attack. He is not a rider who stays in the first 5 the entire race. Then he cannot attack from behind.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

I don't get this criticism for Dillier.
Sagan was clearly strong. Should Dillier not cooperate, Sagan would attack him. Dillier would likely get caught by the group.
This way, he got second and he had (albeit a very distant) chance to win.

IMHO I think they made a deal that Sagan did not go full speed on cobbles and Dillier worked with him on tarmac.

Agree 100%

Look, Dillier was close to being dropped at times. He was exhausted after so many kilometers in the break and Sagan knew that. I am sure Sagan was going to put an attack closer to the finish to drop him but then saw that he was cooperating to keep the gap open. At that point you could sense a gentlemen's agreement between the two. By doing that he kept a remote option of a win and assuring a place in the podium.

That's how I saw it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

I don't see this as an amazing show of strength but rather as a brilliant tactical victory. Obviously Sagan was strong, if not the strongest (we'll never know), and that's a large part of what allowed him to stay at the front, but the key was his tactics. He had forgotten this is what he needs to do, so it's good that he remembered.

Sagan was smart to recognize that after Gilbert's and Stybar's attacks, QS was depleted. Also, the group was making the elastic, ready to explode. Finally, he saw how GVA was able to open up a gap easily. When he attacked, GVa had just produced a big effort, all looked at QS to do the work, and only Terpstra was fresh. Brilliant on Sagan's part. Having said that, few races offer such a situation. And for the first 20km, the gap was small, there was the fear that he was dangling and would be caught. I think that he was also very smart to use the remnants of the breakaway for as long as he could, when he would have been able to drop them quickly.

Strange tactics by Quick Step today anyway. Gilbert and Stybar basically emptied themselves. It's almost like they were thinking "we have to move before Niki or we'll be covering gaps all day again". But then noticed it's too far to go out alone.

Lampaert also not as strong as previous races

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Terpstra messed it up pretty bad...after attack from Gilbert and Stybar it was his turn..he was the one to follow Sagan. I dont know what he was doing.

I agree with this. But then someone in here said that he was bad positioned when that happened. I haven't watched the race a second time to support it. Otherwise a tactical error.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I don't see this as an amazing show of strength but rather as a brilliant tactical victory. Obviously Sagan was strong, if not the strongest (we'll never know), and that's a large part of what allowed him to stay at the front, but the key was his tactics. He had forgotten this is what he needs to do, so it's good that he remembered.

Sagan was smart to recognize that after Gilbert's and Stybar's attacks, QS was depleted. Also, the group was making the elastic, ready to explode. Finally, he saw how GVA was able to open up a gap easily. When he attacked, GVa had just produced a big effort, all looked at QS to do the work, and only Terpstra was fresh. Brilliant on Sagan's part. Having said that, few races offer such a situation. And for the first 20km, the gap was small, there was the fear that he was dangling and would be caught. I think that he was also very smart to use the remnants of the breakaway for as long as he could, when he would have been able to drop them quickly.

Strange tactics by Quick Step today anyway. Gilbert and Stybar basically emptied themselves. It's almost like they were thinking "we have to move before Niki or we'll be covering gaps all day again". But then noticed it's too far to go out alone.

Lampaert also not as strong as previous races

Agree. I think this is what happened. They thought they had to attack first to have a chance against their teammate. LOL.

 

[sir fly]

I've managed to catch all important moves... unlike the Steppers & co. behind Sagan.
Letting him build an advantage was a mistake, but nothing to take away from his ride. Excellent performance.
Now he should start piling up the Monuments. A title each second year won't put him close to the greats in the Classics, and the triple consecutive World champion belongs there.

Congrats.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Terpstra messed it up pretty bad...after attack from Gilbert and Stybar it was his turn..he was the one to follow Sagan. I dont know what he was doing.

I agree with this. But then someone in here said that he was bad positioned when that happened. I haven't watched the race a second time to support it. Otherwise a tactical error.

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I don't get this criticism for Dillier.
Sagan was clearly strong. Should Dillier not cooperate, Sagan would attack him. Dillier would likely get caught by the group.
This way, he got second and he had (albeit a very distant) chance to win.

IMHO I think they made a deal that Sagan did not go full speed on cobbles and Dillier worked with him on tarmac.

Agree 100%

Look, Dillier was close to being dropped at times. He was exhausted after so many kilometers in the break and Sagan knew that. I am sure Sagan was going to put an attack closer to the finish to drop him but then saw that he was cooperating to keep the gap open. At that point you could sense a gentlemen's agreement between the two. By doing that he kept a remote option of a win and assuring a place in the podium.

That's how I saw it.

That's what Migels & Leclercq, just like you & me, saw as well. Tbh his only mistake was the way he acted on the cycling track. That looked a bit unlucky. Everything else was a good decision and resulted in a strong performance!

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

I don't see this as an amazing show of strength but rather as a brilliant tactical victory. Obviously Sagan was strong, if not the strongest (we'll never know), and that's a large part of what allowed him to stay at the front, but the key was his tactics. He had forgotten this is what he needs to do, so it's good that he remembered.

Sagan was smart to recognize that after Gilbert's and Stybar's attacks, QS was depleted. Also, the group was making the elastic, ready to explode. Finally, he saw how GVA was able to open up a gap easily. When he attacked, GVa had just produced a big effort, all looked at QS to do the work, and only Terpstra was fresh. Brilliant on Sagan's part. Having said that, few races offer such a situation. And for the first 20km, the gap was small, there was the fear that he was dangling and would be caught. I think that he was also very smart to use the remnants of the breakaway for as long as he could, when he would have been able to drop them quickly.

Strange tactics by Quick Step today anyway. Gilbert and Stybar basically emptied themselves. It's almost like they were thinking "we have to move before Niki or we'll be covering gaps all day again". But then noticed it's too far to go out alone.

Lampaert also not as strong as previous races

Agree. I think this is what happened. They thought they had to attack first to have a chance against their teammate. LOL.

I think you are right. A team loaded with contenders can be a good thing or a two-edged sword...it takes a strong DS to keep egos in check. Comes July, we'll see how good a DS Eusebio is...

Regardless, it's the toughest race to control, and I don't think that there wasn't anything that QS could have done against this Sagan.

 

[d-s3]

Re: Re:

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

That's how I saw it as well.

 

[Red Rick]

This must be the first time in years that Sagan attacks in a big race and not everyone panics

And it was a big mistake

Prepare for 2 more years of Sagan sitting and complaining

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

I don't see this as an amazing show of strength but rather as a brilliant tactical victory. Obviously Sagan was strong, if not the strongest (we'll never know), and that's a large part of what allowed him to stay at the front, but the key was his tactics. He had forgotten this is what he needs to do, so it's good that he remembered.

Sagan was smart to recognize that after Gilbert's and Stybar's attacks, QS was depleted. Also, the group was making the elastic, ready to explode. Finally, he saw how GVA was able to open up a gap easily. When he attacked, GVa had just produced a big effort, all looked at QS to do the work, and only Terpstra was fresh. Brilliant on Sagan's part. Having said that, few races offer such a situation. And for the first 20km, the gap was small, there was the fear that he was dangling and would be caught. I think that he was also very smart to use the remnants of the breakaway for as long as he could, when he would have been able to drop them quickly.

Strange tactics by Quick Step today anyway. Gilbert and Stybar basically emptied themselves. It's almost like they were thinking "we have to move before Niki or we'll be covering gaps all day again". But then noticed it's too far to go out alone.

Lampaert also not as strong as previous races

Lampaert has only been very strong in Dwars door Vlaanderen. In Harelbeke, Flanders and Roubaix he has not stepped up.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Probably the 50km extra that does Lampaert in

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Terpstra messed it up pretty bad...after attack from Gilbert and Stybar it was his turn..he was the one to follow Sagan. I dont know what he was doing.

I agree with this. But then someone in here said that he was bad positioned when that happened. I haven't watched the race a second time to support it. Otherwise a tactical error.

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

Exactly. It was not intentional. He nows he is strong but no way he planned attack 55 km from the end.

He had to be very surprised nobody was following and when he reached the break and he had a news there is not proper chase he tried his luck.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

That's how I saw it as well.

That's exactly what happened.

No QS in sight when he attacked.

 

[drebelo]

Re: Re:

I don't see this as an amazing show of strength but rather as a brilliant tactical victory. Obviously Sagan was strong, if not the strongest (we'll never know), and that's a large part of what allowed him to stay at the front, but the key was his tactics. He had forgotten this is what he needs to do, so it's good that he remembered.

Sagan was smart to recognize that after Gilbert's and Stybar's attacks, QS was depleted. Also, the group was making the elastic, ready to explode. Finally, he saw how GVA was able to open up a gap easily. When he attacked, GVa had just produced a big effort, all looked at QS to do the work, and only Terpstra was fresh. Brilliant on Sagan's part. Having said that, few races offer such a situation. And for the first 20km, the gap was small, there was the fear that he was dangling and would be caught. I think that he was also very smart to use the remnants of the breakaway for as long as he could, when he would have been able to drop them quickly.

Strange tactics by Quick Step today anyway. Gilbert and Stybar basically emptied themselves. It's almost like they were thinking "we have to move before Niki or we'll be covering gaps all day again". But then noticed it's too far to go out alone.

Lampaert also not as strong as previous races

Agree. I think this is what happened. They thought they had to attack first to have a chance against their teammate. LOL.

I think you are right. A team loaded with contenders can be a good thing or a two-edged sword...it takes a strong DS to keep egos in check. Comes July, we'll see how good a DS Eusebio is...

Regardless, it's the toughest race to control, and I don't think that there wasn't anything that QS could have done against this Sagan.

Of course they could. At that moment they had 3 or 4 riders in the peloton (I don´t record if lampaert was still there, but anyway) that is exacly the momet that the Ds has to move and create a hierarchy. Terpstra was clearly the strongest (between the QS) today and quick stepp the best team so they have the obligation to mount the chase right away. Of course is hard to put 2 or 3 of their leaders to work, but if they are such a strong team and united thats how they should had done. And I have no doubt that a proper chase could had caught sagan when they he had just a 20-30 seconds of a gap

 

[tomorrow]

Re: Re:

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

That's how I saw it as well.

That's exactly what happened.

No QS in sight when he attacked.

Yup, exactly what happe, he's said the same in the interview for Slovak broadcaster, that he just saw there is a small group, so he said to others let's go, and he started with a pull to inspire others. Then he looked back and he got a gap, and he said himself, OK, thank you and went on and on

 

[BigMac]

The best cyclist in history finally adds Roubaix to his palmarès. Hook it to my veins.

 

[alspacka]

Re: Re:

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

That's how I saw it as well.

That's exactly what happened.

No QS in sight when he attacked.

Yup, exactly what happe, he's said the same in the interview for Slovak broadcaster, that he just saw there is a small group, so he said to others let's go, and he started with a pull to inspire others. Then he looked back and he got a gap, and he said himself, OK, thank you and went on and on

It's kind of ridiculous that QS managed to miss the split created by GVA's attack. Look here they're on the front in good position, and then suddenly nowhere, which Sagan clearly notices and get's on the radio. https://streamable.com/b7u9k

Followed by https://streamable.com/x9o3k

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I actually think that Sagan even didn't intend to attack at all. Van Avermaet attacked and dragged the group of 10-15 riders with no Steppers in it. Sagan looked around and realized they were not present, then he came to the front to up the pace and in that particular moment everybody stopped and by the time he turned around next time he got the gap of 20-30m. Then he just kept on pushing.
I need to rewatch, I'm not certain at all, but I remember when I watched it live, it looked to me like that.

That's how I saw it as well.

That's exactly what happened.

No QS in sight when he attacked.

Yup, exactly what happe, he's said the same in the interview for Slovak broadcaster, that he just saw there is a small group, so he said to others let's go, and he started with a pull to inspire others. Then he looked back and he got a gap, and he said himself, OK, thank you and went on and on

It's kind of ridiculous that QS managed to miss the split created by GVA's attack. Look here they're on the front in good position, and then suddenly nowhere, which Sagan clearly notices and get's on the radio. https://streamable.com/b7u9k

Followed by https://streamable.com/x9o3k

Yeah, agree, and once Sagan goes, waiting for QS to close it is a horrible move as well as you can't just gift a rider like Sagan a minute, and both Gilbert and Stybar had already been hugely active. You're basically hoping that that the group works together or Sagan blows up.

You're basically hoping on a chance where you don't lose by default. If you go with Sagan you can actually force a positive selection there

 

[d-s3]

Similar to what Sagan complained about in Flanders, just that now he was benefiting from that.