2020...2021 Olympic Women's Road Race, Tokyo, 137 KM

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah, I doubt that it will hurt women's cycling a lot when it comes to the casual viewers and their opinion.
Some humble pie for the Dutch armada, they should be able to admit that they made a mistake. If Belgium and Italy realized that there was still someone ahead you don't really have an excuse.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Do we know the level of mathematical education of Elisa Longo Borghini? Because if she doesn't have a PhD, she might prove that it is possible to count to three without one:

"Basically when we caught the two ladies… I realised there was another one," she said.

Its not a counting error but a subtraction error i.e. 3-2 = 1 left. All the famous dutch mathematicians would be turning in their grave

 

[Mayomaniac]

Do we know the level of mathematical education of Elisa Longo Borghini? Because if she doesn't have a PhD, she might prove that it is possible to count to three without one:

"Basically when we caught the two ladies… I realised there was another one," she said.

The Dutch girls got their Math lessions from Scott Steiner:

 

[Salvarani]

I think people watching the Olympics are mainly occasional viewers who like a good story more than what us (hardcore cycling fans) would consider a tactically sound race.

Overall I really don't think this was bad publicity for female cycling. It sure wasn't within my circle of family/friends/acquaintances.

I think you are being very optimistic with this take.

When I go to biggest site in my country that report on news and sport. The first article is now about the woman in the cycling race that thought she had won. The only clip is her celebrating and then images after the race when she realize that she didnt win. No details on the race itself.

They are great athletes and should be viewed as that. Pros.

Except for a few countries and really interested people, no one is watching women cycling.

But I mean the race will probably be reported more on now than if it had been "business as usual". I mean all publicity for women cycling is probably good in the long run, even though this was "bad".

 

[Brullnux]

Perfectly illustrative of what women's elite road cycling is

Yes, a freak race n which nobody was expecting and everyone is stunned by is 'perfectly illustrative of what women's elite road cycling is'. I think your understanding of the words you have used might be off.

 

[tobydawq]

Its not a counting error but a subtraction error i.e. 3-2 = 1 left. All the famous dutch mathematicians would be turning in their grave

That may be. I'm not sure they have shown their work sufficiently to make that assessment, though.

 

[BlueRoads]

I think people watching the Olympics are mainly occasional viewers who like a good story more than what us (hardcore cycling fans) would consider a tactically sound race.

Overall I really don't think this was bad publicity for female cycling. It sure wasn't within my circle of family/friends/acquaintances.

I'm always amazed by the amount of friends and family yu must have who watch sports / cycling. Maybe because you race yourself? I don't know anyone around me who would watch a cycling race in the early morning.

 

[RedheadDane]

Seems Vos isn't joining the "We were misinformed" train.

Vos: Vi undervurderede Kiesenhofer | Feltet.dk

Vos: We underestimated Kiesenhofer

The Dutch were big favorites, but they never caught Anna Kiesenhofer, who sensationally took the Olympic gold home to Austria.

They were giant favorites, but had to settle for silver for Annemiek van Vleuten. Marianne Vos herself became fifth, but the big winner was Anna Kiesenhofer, who after a big attack cheated all the favorites and took the Olympic gold.

Unlike Van Vleuten, Vos was aware that in the final they only raced for the secondary places. They had simply underestimated the Austrian.

“We certainly underestimated Kiesenhofer's strength. We drove at full throttle and got closer, but not enough, ”Vos said after the race to NOS, which will not use poor communication as an excuse for the Dutch's failed Olympics.

"Without radio, you know in advance that you have to cope with the information you get from the side and from the car, and you try to absorb that as best you can."

"Subsequently, it's easy and you want to have done it differently, of course," the quick Dutchman concludes.

 

[Monte Serra]

Yeah, I doubt that it will hurt women's cycling a lot when it comes to the casual viewers and their opinion.
Some humble pie for the Dutch armada, they should be able to admit that they made a mistake. If Belgium and Italy realized that there was still someone ahead you don't really have an excuse.

Marianne Vos said after the race: "We definitely underestimated the power of Kiesenhofer."
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/m...we-kwamen-wel-iets-dichterbij-maar-niet-veel/

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, I doubt that it will hurt women's cycling a lot when it comes to the casual viewers and their opinion.
Some humble pie for the Dutch armada, they should be able to admit that they made a mistake. If Belgium and Italy realized that there was still someone ahead you don't really have an excuse.

I don't think the image of someone thinking she wins when she comes across the line solo for 2nd place is very flattering. Not that a Dutch 1/2/3 or routine win would've been amazing either.

 

[Salvarani]

Marianne Vos said after the race: "We definitely underestimated the power of Kiesenhofer."
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/m...we-kwamen-wel-iets-dichterbij-maar-niet-veel/

Is this after they got information that there had been a rider ahead? Because how could underestimate her, when they didnt even think about her.

 

[Danskebjerge]

I liked to read Cecilie's comments. Usually, she is so over-enthused and proud of women' cycling and really fixed on promoting it that her takes on the races may tend to transcend the realm of realism a little bit.

But not today. She said that she was embarrassed on part of the peloton and that the race really sucked for women's cycling, and I couldn't agree more. This is the very biggest stage for the women and then to have their sport seem so amateurish in comparison to the men's must really hurt, but it's nice to see her not sugarcoat it.

To be honest (and others will certainly disagree), I think women's cycling has serious issues. When Van Vleuten rode alone and won with 100 kilometers to the finish line at the world championships two years ago, I clearly saw it as a weakness in the sport. Such long range adventures would never be succesfull in men's cycling on the highest level. Unless you were a Dutch fan back then, and an Austrian fan yesterday, you were seriously bored at those two occasions. Or maybe just bewildered - where is the professionalism?

P.S.: I do like the surprise of the almost unknown Austrian winning.

 

[Brullnux]

Re italian tactics - they might have been boring, but how were they wrong? The aim for Longo Borghini was at best a medal, and she has come out of it with a bronze. Seems to me like it was a success surely?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is this after they got information that there had been a rider ahead? Because how could underestimate her, when they didnt even think about her.

Vos' interview was several minutes after the initial ones with Annemiek and Anna. I suspect there might be a bit of diplomacy going on as a result, following the way they reacted first up. Especially after van der Breggen's response to the suggestion they may have underestimated Kiesenhofer.

 

[Brullnux]

When Van Vleuten rode alone and won with 100 kilometers to the finish line at the world championships two years ago, I clearly saw it as a weakness in the sport. Such long range adventures would never be succesfull in men's cycling on the highest level.

Simply not true though is it. Pogacar did about 60km this Tour (didn't win but did it all basically solo and got 4 minutes on the rest of the favourites), Froome has done 90km or so at the giro, Gilbert did 55km in Flanders. It's unusual but it does happen

 

[Izzyeviel]

I don't think the image of someone thinking she wins when she comes across the line solo for 2nd place is very flattering. Not that a Dutch 1/2/3 or routine win would've been amazing either.

yeah, but its something we see quite often in the sport, we had that bloke who thought he'd won but there was one more lap, we've seen people celebrate too soon, we've seen all sorts - not just in cycling. I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

To be honest (and others will certainly disagree), I think women's cycling has serious issues. When Van Vleuten rode alone and won with 100 kilometers to the finish line at the world championships two years ago, I clearly saw it as a weakness in the sport. Such long range adventures would never be succesfull in men's cycling on the highest level. Unless you were a Dutch fan back then, and an Austrian fan yesterday, you were seriously bored at those two occasions. Or maybe just bewildered - where is the professionalism?

How interesting do you think Merckx taking eight minutes while already in the yellow jersey would have been to watch? Or Coppi to Pinerolo? These are legendary rides, but the actual spectacle was probably pretty minimal. Annemiek's 100km solo in 2019 was a show of strength and disunity behind, but Kiesenhofer's solo win is a different experience. It's like Jacky Durand winning RVV, a whole surreal, can't believe what we're seeing kind of event. Maybe a bit like the 2010 L'Aquila stage, where the stage itself isn't that exciting but you can't take your eyes off it for what it means.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Simply not true though is it. Pogacar did about 60km this Tour (didn't win but did it all basically solo and got 4 minutes on the rest of the favourites), Froome has done 90km or so at the giro, Gilbert did 55km in Flanders. It's unusual but it does happen

So that was not 100 kilometers. In one day races in particular, it would be unthinkable.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Do we know the level of mathematical education of Elisa Longo Borghini? Because if she doesn't have a PhD, she might prove that it is possible to count to three without one:

"Basically when we caught the two ladies… I realised there was another one," she said.

Slongo is her coach, and he's a real numbers guy.

Seems Vos isn't joining the "We were misinformed" train.

Vos: Vi undervurderede Kiesenhofer | Feltet.dk

They definitely didn't drive or ride at full throttle all the time.


Former and current fotball players sometimes find it hard to understand the rules and/or math, so that could excuse Van Vleuten here.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

As far as I can work out, Kiesenhofer (and Austria) only qualified because Kathrin Schweinberger came 71st in the 2019 World Rankings.

Given that it was an individual ranking rather than cummulative team points that got them there, and thatSchweinberger won the national championships this year and last, one wonders what the selection criteria were. Someone who held out in a meeting is feeling pretty smug right now.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Re italian tactics - they might have been boring, but how were they wrong? The aim for Longo Borghini was at best a medal, and she has come out of it with a bronze. Seems to me like it was a success surely?

Helping out the Dutch would have been crazy. I think one team being that much stronger than the rest also had a huge impact on the way the race unfolded, not just the lack of radios.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Re italian tactics - they might have been boring, but how were they wrong? The aim for Longo Borghini was at best a medal, and she has come out of it with a bronze. Seems to me like it was a success surely?

I'm not saying they were wrong, cause they got a great result out of it, but they did have a chance to ride against the Dutch, and they didn't even try.

As far as I can work out, Kiesenhofer (and Austria) only qualified because Kathrin Schweinberger came 71st in the 2019 World Rankings.

Given that it was an individual ranking rather than cummulative team points that got them there, and thatSchweinberger won the national championships this year and last, one wonders what the selection criteria were. Someone who held out in a meeting is feeling pretty smug right now.

They had a trial race where Kiesenhofer won by a big margin.

Kein Tokio-Ticket für Tirols Rad-Jungstar Mitterwallner | Tiroler Tageszeitung Online

Kurz nach dem verpassten Olympia-Startplatz im Mountainbiken muss Tirols Rad-Jungstar Mona Mitterwallner auch den Traum vom Straßenrad-Rennen in Tokio begraben.

www.tt.com

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Do we know the level of mathematical education of Elisa Longo Borghini? Because if she doesn't have a PhD, she might prove that it is possible to count to three without one:

"Basically when we caught the two ladies… I realised there was another one," she said.

Van Vleuten has, I understand, a masters in epidemiology: that should include some counting...

 

[Danskebjerge]

How interesting do you think Merckx taking eight minutes while already in the yellow jersey would have been to watch? Or Coppi to Pinerolo? These are legendary rides, but the actual spectacle was probably pretty minimal. Annemiek's 100km solo in 2019 was a show of strength and disunity behind, but Kiesenhofer's solo win is a different experience. It's like Jacky Durand winning RVV, a whole surreal, can't believe what we're seeing kind of event. Maybe a bit like the 2010 L'Aquila stage, where the stage itself isn't that exciting but you can't take your eyes off it for what it means.

Cycling decades ago would seem very amateurish compared to today. In fact, that goes for most sports. So that's not a comparison that's particularly relevant here.

It's not so much the boredom in itself that annoys me in the case of women's cycling, it's more the lack of the logic we normally see in cycling.

I 'm of course aware that there is bigger gaps between the various riders in women's cycling than in men's - that's what makes 100 kilometer winning attacks possible - but still.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

They had a trial race where Kiesenhofer won by a big margin.

Niederkreuzstettnerin im Showdown um Olympia

Niederkreuzstettnerin Anna Kiesenhofer (30) will über ein ÖRV-internes Qualifikationsrennen nach Tokio.

www.noen.at

Interesting, thanks.

Did Schweinberger know she was there?