Pic du Midi and other dead-end climbs won't get the financing. I have long desired a Col du Jandri being paved (imagine AdH, descent of Sarenne , then right up with that monster. I like Loze for the opportunity to use it in different ways, like la montee de Plan Bois near La Plagne (10k at 10%)...AND the Arnosteguy mountain, my favorite.I'd like Pic Du Midi to be the final of a monster stage.
But only in a tour where there is something like 125+ flat ITT km with a long flat TTT as well or else it would be even more skewed to the climbers than 2020 is
So you mean Col du Rosael will be in sometime probably the first Tour after I die?Pic du Midi and other dead-end climbs won't get the financing. I have long desired a Col du Jandri being paved (imagine AdH, descent of Sarenne , then right up with that monster. I like Loze for the opportunity to use it in different ways, like la montee de Plan Bois near La Plagne (10k at 10%)...AND the Arnosteguy mountain, my favorite.
The ones shown here are cow trails, brutal, Mayomaniac-style but not too realistic .
I deleted my Rosael paragraph before sending the post...big opportunity, fantastic climb, but I believe its return on investment is lower than the AdH-Sarenne-Jandri design. On a Saturday, the AdH ITT on Sunday, muhahahah...see how they fare against old mutants.So you mean Col du Rosael will be in sometime probably the first Tour after I die?
Midi wouldn't get financing even with the famous observatory? I know they couldn't climb all the way to the observatory on a road bike, but they could finish at the Col de Laquets just below. Similar to how Meribel is paying for the Loze finish, La Mongie could pay for a Midi finish?Pic du Midi and other dead-end climbs won't get the financing. I have long desired a Col du Jandri being paved (imagine AdH, descent of Sarenne , then right up with that monster. I like Loze for the opportunity to use it in different ways, like la montee de Plan Bois near La Plagne (10k at 10%)...AND the Arnosteguy mountain, my favorite.
The ones shown here are cow trails, brutal, Mayomaniac-style but not too realistic .
You did however, see Gusev, Hincapie, Popovych and Leipheimer riding in formation in front of Contador while Rasmussen had Dekker, Boogerd and Menchov backing him up.Yes, but I didn't see Castroviejo, Kwiatkowski, Poels, Bernal and Thomas ride in formation in front of Cadel Evans that year.
That said, Rasmussen's exploits were magnificent.
He learned to ride a TT bike before 2007. In the long ITT in which he did participate he caught Valverde who had started 3 minutes in front of him.The Rasmussen exploits died a sudden death but it was entertaining. Also would have helped if he could ride a TT bike. But his story line ended predictably like the Cobra's.
Assuming that power decrease with altitude is the same for everyone you're right. Then, why bother? And, why complain when a GT route doesn't go to high altitude?Running follows W/kg tho, so if they select based on national competition you get that selection automatically.
It still matters a lot because at altitude drafting is a lot less than at lower altitudes so it increases the gap betweem the better and weaker ridersAssuming that power decrease with altitude is the same for everyone you're right. Then, why bother? And, why complain when a GT route doesn't go to high altitude?
Loze links two ski resorts, makes equipment maintenance easier, one could justify the expense whereas a road to Laquets/Midi would be just for Tour purposes, pretty much, like la PDBF, but a lot more costly.Midi wouldn't get financing even with the famous observatory? I know they couldn't climb all the way to the observatory on a road bike, but they could finish at the Col de Laquets just below. Similar to how Meribel is paying for the Loze finish, La Mongie could pay for a Midi finish?
Thanks for the namedropping, but I like to point out that I've actually climbed, Forcella Zovo, the Zoncolan and the ungodly steep old road to Oberbozen myself durning the summer, so it's not like I'd force the riders to ride climbs that I've never experienced.Pic du Midi and other dead-end climbs won't get the financing. I have long desired a Col du Jandri being paved (imagine AdH, descent of Sarenne , then right up with that monster. I like Loze for the opportunity to use it in different ways, like la montee de Plan Bois near La Plagne (10k at 10%)...AND the Arnosteguy mountain, my favorite.
The ones shown here are cow trails, brutal, Mayomaniac-style but not too realistic .
You're not looking at the Plan Bois that I'm talking about (there's another one) google "montee a plan bois" to see it, then check the map and cronoescalada it. Yikes. https://www.la-plagne.com/equipement/1/75310-montee-a-plan-bois.htmlPlan Bois is not near La Plagne. It's also not 10k @ 10%.
Fair enough. My last worthy climb ridden was Rockfish Gap in Va, too fat for Wintergreen right now on 39X25: I would die.Thanks for the namedropping, but I like to point out that I've actually climbed, Forcella Zovo, the Zoncolan and the ungodly steep old road to Oberbozen myself durning the summer, so it's not like I'd force the riders to ride climbs that I've never experienced.
Yes, Jandri doesn't look that impossible and I'd like to see it one day, but in the end ASO should just use all those underused paved climbs that we already have first before thinking about adding a new sensation.
I have no idea what I just read but I loved it“Won’t Somebody Please Think Of The Pure Sprinters?!”
Road cycling had always been known for many things. Bravery, endurance, time trialling, and according to some, an activity designed strictly for Europeans. But by the twenty-first century it had also become known for something else entirely: climate change.
You’re a sceptic? Well, we all are, initially. So just hear me out.
In the first three-quarters of the twentieth century road bikes were made from harmless material, such as aluminium. But then, in the 1980’s, carbon fibre bikes were introduced. It was only a small footprint initially, but these wheels had legs. Soon enough, entire peloton’s were using them.
It was no surprise that the bike was popularised by an American. I mean since when do American’s care about the environment? And you probably wouldn’t believe it, but that 1989 Tour De France winning machine was called ‘the Look’. I swear, you can’t make *** like this up.
But cycling’s contribution to climate change wasn’t based so much on its technology. It was based more on its parcours.
It was based on its use of cols.
In the early days of the Tour De France, the race was based on ‘endurance’ - a word that many millennials haven’t heard of – rather than climbing. In fact, before Joaquim Rodriguez was born, nobody had even heard of the term ‘puncheur’. It would probably have been assumed that it referred to a French boxer. Perhaps it was one of Bernard Hinault’s lesser known nicknames.
In the 50’s and 60’s the Tour De France went into the mountains, but not excessively. It didn’t traverse into the mountains unnecessarily. Strictly speaking, the race directors didn’t subject the riders to unnecessary cruelty. Col’s were used, but they were used for a specific purpose: to impact on the overall outcome of the general classification. There was very little wastage.
But as parcours trends later changed, so did our climate. It was no coincidence. I’m telling you people, it’s science.
We were even warned very publically – when it was almost too late – by that young expert on cols, the activist Greta Thunberg, on the disaster that Christian Prudhomme’s continued selfish actions would lead to, if not altered. “You have stolen the dreams and livelihood of Dylan Groenewegen and Tom Dumoulin. How dare you?!”
I am not sure why – as a Swede – she had mentioned the Dutch. Perhaps because Holland didn’t really have any cols to use, so I guess they were pretty good to the environment.
The early 2000’s were seen as a cancer by many, but in hindsight we looked back on these Tour De France editions with some nostalgia, perhaps some might even say, with some fondness. For when the road climbed steeply upwards – particularly at the very end of a stage – there was inevitably action. What became highly predictable action, admittedly. But action all the same. ‘Cadence’ was the popular term of the day. In the high mountains, ‘soft-pedalling’ was unheard of.
And mountain stages in general, didn’t dominate the route. I mean, you don’t need many col’s, when you have clocks.
In 1990 my millennials, the Tour De France had five races against the clock, and four of those were of the acceptable variety. FIVE! I know. You think that I am lying. But we used to live in a different world, we really did.
In fact, as recently as 2004, flat stages ruled the roost. There was no more than a week of decisive stages in the Tour De France, and even less so in its attractive sister, the Giro d’Italia. Great fans of the latter – and there are many – for its cols would be embarrassed to look back on that route, for they would discover that it was rather boring flat stage friendly. They would be even more surprised to learn that it was organised by one Angelo Zomegnan.
Surprised, because in the years that followed, Angelo would become known for his crazy use of col’s in his great race. But this wasn’t at the total expense of boring flat stages, nor of individual time trialling. Zomegnan had the decency to even promote ‘Col Free Mondays’. However, when it came to the Tour De France - under the control of Prudhomme - no day was safe from unnecessary cruelty.
Though he did encourage some extra recuperation on some Tuesdays.
So it was no coincidence, that it was the 2012 Giro, the first that was without Angelo’s steady hand since 2003, that provided its riders with record levels of unnecessary climbing cruelty.
Time and time again, the general classification competing cyclists were subject to horrendous torture, without any sort of relevant outcome. Fans were outraged, and humanity began to change, though the race was well behind that of the change of the planet. And that change was already about to have direct impact on its col’s.
For it was the 2013 Giro that saw col cancellation after col cancellation, and which ironically gifted a rider from a great col loving nation – so loving that it’s Prime Minister would later bring it into show and tell in parliament – a podium place which most agreed was largely undeserved. Still, it was very cold high up on those col’s; climate change wasn’t quite as obvious.
It was the rising sea levels that would let us know once and for all, and would ironically, exterminate flat boring stages, once and for all.
But back to 2010. The use of col’s unnecessarily in cycling and its harmful impact on the environment was highlighted greatly when Alberto Contador revealed that he had consumed beef during the race, contributing still further to the events carbon footprint. Now a general classification rider doesn’t risk taking performance enhancing substances for flat boring stages, and given that there was very little racing against the clock in this edition, then he most likely consumed beef for the mountains. My guess is that it was in preparation for the stage finish at Ax 3 Domaines.
It was all so unnecessary.
But then chaingate happened, and the world continued to ignore what was really going on.
Christian Prudhomme is a shifty bastard. When he first took over the Tour De France in 2006, he was warmly welcomed, even hailed as a hero – an environmentalist – by some. His debut contained flat boring stage after flat boring stage, and more than sufficient individual time trialling. The cruelty of his cols – save for one very lacklustre stage in the Pyrenees….we should have known – was necessary.
In 2007 Prudhomme seemed even greater, and we thought that the Vino’s of the world were the bad guys. But did Vino ever waste a col? Did he really?
2008 wasn’t too bad either, but we had a further warning. Were the Tour De France col’s becoming so shallow that a rider could crash going up them?
But again, it was easy to blame the eastern block.
Or anyone really. For in later years, when mountain stages became more numerous and less decisive – as those sea levels continued to warm and rise – it was Prudhomme who would point to the Vuelta, as if to say, “Come on, at least we are not that bad”.
Yes, the Vuelta can be blamed for a lot of things.
It was true that Prudhomme refused to reduce his carbon emissions until his Spanish cousin did.
And so the summits – all of the summits – did next to nothing.
Another aspect of the global warming being encouraged by the road racing was to do with technology, and it was in the form of trains. Now if you don’t know much about cycling you’d be surprised, and wonder, “how could they get away with it, using such an obvious motor?”
It’s cycling. It’s the Tour De France. A lot of riders have got away with a lot of stuff that has been pretty obvious.
The trains obviously added to the carbon footprint, and created an almost non-scheduled team time trial – that’s the time trial that is unacceptable – into the mountain stages. It seemed that in the modern age, you had to be on a train to win the Tour De France. It was said that not very long ago an Italian won the event without one, but the general consensus was that he had won by default. He was also said to have taken a ride in a car in another event (though we don’t believe that this was the often whispered about Ferrari), so either way that you wanted to look at it, it was best that you use a motor of some description.
And if you didn’t have your motor running, then it was probably best to neutralise the race.
It used to be dominated by the French, but now as well as using a motor, the other key aspect to success in the Tour De France appeared to be speaking proper English. Yes, if you were Anglo Saxon, then you appeared to have a marginal gain on your rivals. Many fans didn’t like this, perhaps because there was possibly too much pride, and too much prejudice.
Which was why many forum members become happier when a non-Anglo Saxon started winning. Egan Bernal - the man they began to call the Colombian Contador – rode on a train like most of the other winners, but it was said that he was a ‘pure climber’, sort of in the same but opposite way of a ‘pure sprinter’, though these were fast becoming mythological creatures. And he would leave the train sometimes too, as if to say, “Look, no motor”.
He wore yellow in Paris in 2019, and he did so again in 2020. You would have put your house on this Spanish speaker winning more than two Tours. And in fact, he wore yellow into Paris again, in 2021. Only Paris wasn’t the Paris that we knew anymore.
We need to go back. We need to go back, just a little bit further, in regards to Prudhomme’s continued unnecessary use of col’s.
In 2020 Christian broke new ground. Emissions reached record levels as mountain stage after mountain stage was ‘raced’, without reasonable result. Worse still, there were now two fully functioning trains. Fans didn’t even joke about the Vino option anymore.
In later years, experts would label stage fourteen – when the riders crested the Col de Beal – as a ‘tipping point’. Luke Rowe took the KOM points – nobody even bothered to get into a breakaway – and Peter Sagan won the stage.
This never happened when Armstrong walked on the moon. Or don’t you believe in miracles?
In 2021 there wasn’t a single km against the clock. It was as big a call for an Armageddon as there had ever been. Prudhomme though, claimed that his route was balanced, pointing to the Planche des Belles Filles and it being the first mountain top finish of the race, as well as the last. Which is to say that he had now included his favourite climb twice in the same parcours.
The greatest innovative mind since Leonardo Da Vinci even had one stage finish after the gravel, and one stage finish before it. Twitter feeds exploded with praise for his genius.
But we weren’t just two trains above zero now. And as the peloton came to the outskirts of Paris, they were met by a wall of water. Sea levels had now taken the capital, and much of the rest of France.
Prudhomme wasn’t about to neutralise the race, for in this edition, no Frenchman could be helped.
And therefore no Colombian stood a chance. It would have been perfect conditions for the shark, however he had retired after 2020. The winner should have thus been the surprising Richie Porte, who was looking at a rare grand tour top ten, and would have gained more than marginally, given his triathlon background. But after making it through twenty stages unscathed, he rode into a black cat whilst on his warm up ride, and broke both his collarbones. I didn’t know that it was physically possible to break both in one accident, but we aren’t talking about just any rider here.
Geoghegan Hart, perhaps helped by his proficiency in English, was able to wipe away all of those minutes that he had lost to his teammate on the col’s, in the floods. And when an Anglo Saxon with just a tiny trace of climbing ability is gifted half a dozen minutes and a Tour, then you are asking for a new era of dominance.
More unhappy than anyone about this day of biblical proportions was Peter Sagan. He wasn’t able to complete the stage, and so lost his green jersey. And upon hearing that the Tour De France wouldn’t finish in Paris anymore, he announced his retirement.
Libertine Seguros shed a tear of joy.
If it sounds too good to be true though, then it probably is. And so it was, that in October 2021, when Prudhomme announced the new route for 2022, there were zero boring flat stages. Because it was logistically impossible. He had claimed that a lot of things were logistically impossible in the past – when they weren’t – and now in the present, they really were. It was rolling, ‘medium’ mountain terrain, with even shorter stages than ever now, and multiple transfers. And the final finishing location? It had to be somewhere that was Tour De France famous. It had to have tradition. Libertine Seguros feared for the worst, that PDBF would be selected. But the reality was even worse than that. LS was knocked to the canvas. Pau!
Peter Sagan immediately announced his comeback. And he would go on to win many more green jerseys, and many stage twenty-ones.
Until humanity was wiped out that is.
And what of Libertine Seguros? He, she kept following the sport until the end, for it actually wasn’t all doom and gloom. La Course became a little more interesting. Thanks to the impossibilities of logistics.
It could affect their TDF Official Guide paper magazine sales too much, I think. They still sell very well every June. Also in markets like Australia.It's so dumb and it's pretty basic stuff which altogether just shows the ASO is lazy as hell about their product
|Thread starter||Similar threads||Forum||Replies||Date|
|C||The 29th Coupe de France de cyclisme sur route (2020)||Professional Road Racing||10|
|Rate the 2019 Tour de France||Professional Road Racing||79|
|2019 Tour de France, stage 21: Rambouillet > Champs-Élysées||Professional Road Racing||114|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 18: Embrun > Valloire 208 km||Professional Road Racing||328|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 17: Pont du Gard > Gap 200 km||Professional Road Racing||211|
|Tour de France 2019: Second rest day: Who will win le TDF?||Professional Road Racing||96|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 16: Nîmes > Nîmes||Professional Road Racing||123|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 14: Tarbes - Tourmalet 117 km||Professional Road Racing||500|
|2019 Tour de France, La Course & stage 13: Paauuu...||Professional Road Racing||454|
|2019 Tour de France, stage 12: Toulouse>Bagnères-de-Bigorre||Professional Road Racing||362|
|The 29th Coupe de France de cyclisme sur route (2020)|
|Rate the 2019 Tour de France|
|2019 Tour de France, stage 21: Rambouillet > Champs-Élysées|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 18: Embrun > Valloire 208 km|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 17: Pont du Gard > Gap 200 km|
|Tour de France 2019: Second rest day: Who will win le TDF?|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 16: Nîmes > Nîmes|
|Tour de France 2019 stage 14: Tarbes - Tourmalet 117 km|
|2019 Tour de France, La Course & stage 13: Paauuu...|
|2019 Tour de France, stage 12: Toulouse>Bagnères-de-Bigorre|