2021 Giro Route Rumours

[yaco]

Starting to look like Vuelta d'Italia to me.

Nothing wrong with that - The Giro has the terrain to mix up it's courses - Lets be creative.

 

[Red Rick]

Nothing wrong with that - The Giro has the terrain to mix up it's courses - Lets be creative.

The Vuelta, most of the time, isn't creative at all. That's where the problem lies.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I know, but this is actually the profile you get with climbing from Campodolcino to Motta di Sotto. At least from San Bernardino onwards, that is.

Oh yes, that stage will probably look a lot like that. The problem is that they try the same formula (flat before 3 final climbs) before nearly all the mountain stages, the Giro is usually more creative than that.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh yes, that stage will probably look a lot like that. The problem is that they try the same formula (flat before 3 final climbs) before nearly all the mountain stages, the Giro is usually more creative than that.

It's the sort of format that's very vanilla that 90% of the time comes down to the final climb because the ordering of the final climbs is almost always such. Both the big MTFs in the Tour were like that last year, as is the main MTF this year.

 

[OlavEH]

The Giro has the terrain to mix up it's courses - Lets be creative.

Yep, the possibilities for variation in the Giro is close to endless. A Giro could contain every type of high mountain, medium mountain and hilly stages. The options are much better than in the Tour and Vuelta. Especially for mountain stages that could encourage attacks from far out......

 

[yaco]

The Vuelta, most of the time, isn't creative at all. That's where the problem lies.

I prefer the way the Vuelta sets up its courses - Some hilly/mountainous stages early on ( even in the first stage ) then a similar TT always around stage 12 - It's perfect.

 

[tobydawq]

I know. But there are some limitations if you assume start and finish towns. Especially the Cortina and Sega di Ala stages will be very long if you add extra climbs in addition to those viewed in LFR's design, ~220 km, given start in Sacile and Canazei. It is definitely possible, but I doubt we'll see two stages of that type. But, I will be gladly suprised if that happens.

Well the original stage 18 and 20 from last year were both crazy hard so it wouldn't be beyond them.

 

[ice&fire]

I prefer the way the Vuelta sets up its courses - Some hilly/mountainous stages early on ( even in the first stage ) then a similar TT always around stage 12 - It's perfect.

The Vuelta can do a half decent job with how stages are sequenced along the race. But short-term stage sequencing still lacks.
They've got rid in recent years of the 3-MTFs-in-a-row before the second rest day, but they still give us 2-in-a-row with the hardest one last (e.g., Farapona+Angliru) too often. Either they didn't learn anything from the Aubisque + Formigal lesson in 2016 or they don't want it to happen ever again.
And regarding stage design, although Spain doesn't have the riches of Italy's terrain, they could do quite a bit better than they usually do.

 

[OlavEH]

Well the original stage 18 and 20 from last year were both crazy hard so it wouldn't be beyond them.

Yep, but stage 18 were a massive climb as the second last before a significantly easier last climb. That is a recipe that almost always works. If you want entertaining mountain stages that is by far the safest way to design a stage. The Giro shoold always have one or two of these.

 

[Red Rick]

I prefer the way the Vuelta sets up its courses - Some hilly/mountainous stages early on ( even in the first stage ) then a similar TT always around stage 12 - It's perfect.

Yeah the Vuelta is the one that generally has the best pacing of stages even if the individual stages can be uninspiring. I hold them to different standards anyway.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Yeah the Vuelta is the one that generally has the best pacing of stages even if the individual stages can be uninspiring. I hold them to different standards anyway.

The Vuelta in recent times hasn't been very back loaded, which i like. The riders aren't waiting for two of the hardest (or most decisive) stages being on the last four days (usually the case in Giro and Tour).

As was pointed out before though, the order of some stages (Farapona before Angliru) leaves a lot to be desired. Also, mix up the ITT a little. Medium length at the end of the second week is okay, but not every year.

 

[Red Rick]

So is Fauniera deffo not happening?

 

[Mayomaniac]

So is Fauniera deffo not happening?

To my understnding hey are gonna use if first in the u23 Giro, then one year(?) after in the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

To my understnding hey are gonna use if first in the u23 Giro, then one year(?) after in the Giro.

Hmm alright. It was basically my hope for thereal tappone, but at least it seems like it won't turn go full Gamoniteiro

 

[Mayomaniac]

Hmm alright. It was basically my hope for thereal tappone, but at least it seems like it won't turn go full Gamoniteiro

You can make the Cortina stage a tappone while keeping it under 210km long (a reasonable distance for a Giro queenstage).
https://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/686807

 

[OlavEH]

You can make the Cortina stage a tappone while keeping it under 210km long (a reasonable distance for a Giro queenstage).
https://www.cronoescalada.com/index.php/tracks/view/686807

I mapped the same route yesterday, but without Staulanza. Seems like it's actually shorter to add Staulanza?

 

[Mayomaniac]

I mapped the same route yesterday, but without Staulanza. Seems like it's actually shorter to add Staulanza?

I mapped the same route yesterday, but without Staulanza. Seems like it's actually shorter to add Staulanza?

Yes, Staulanza is the most direct road towards the start of Fedaia, if you're coming from that direction.

 

[OlavEH]

Yes, Staulanza is the most direct road towards the start of Fedaia, if you're coming from that direction.

Your suggsted route is only 3 km longer than the route from La Flamme Rouge, but adds two extra climbs. Really hope your suggestion will be the actual route. A proper queen stage both in terms of length and height meters, and including two classic monster climbs like Fedaia and Giau!

 

[houtdffan]

Weakening the legs of the top climbers doesn't matter that much these days, they still get to the bottom really fresh while the domestiques get burnt out and the pace is low. Weakening the legs is very often not the trigger for action at all.

I wanna bet if you make the 150km before Zonc pan flat you get bigger gaps than if you put 3 cat 2s in front of it.

As for Crostis, I honestly think it would just be softpedaled, and you'd waste a queen stage on just another single MTF of action.

The 8km of gravel after the Crostis may cause more gaps than the climb itself

 

[Red Rick]

The 8km of gravel after the Crostis may cause more gaps than the climb itself

If we get Crostis I want it without Zoncolan.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, Staulanza is the most direct road towards the start of Fedaia, if you're coming from that direction.

Opens course.

Sees no Duran

shudders

 

[Kainabru]

I generally like the route as it shapes up and don't understand people talking like it's only redeeming factor is the fact that we live in covid times and should be happy that the race will take place. Sure there is still a lot of unknowns, like amount of itt kilometres and how the stages are gonna look in its first phase but I would say that the first week looks decent enough with some easier Mtfs and ITT at the beginning. After that we have one of possibly the best second week in recent years with well placed Zoncolan, queen stage to Cortina with Giau and Fedaia making a comeback, add to it sterrato stage, medium mountains in Bagno di Romagna stage and potentially an ITT and you end up with perfect second week. Sure third week doesn't look as hard as in previous edition but Sega di Ala stage is looking like a great stage with at least around 4000m of vertical gain and tough finish (on the tour it would qualify as the hardest stage), then you have Alpe Mera, which is decent unipuerto (better than pratonevoso in 2018) and stage 20 where you can attack from multiple places if San Bernardino and Spluga are in. It really offers more than 2020 edition in terms of valid opportunities to attack, and if I remember correctly 2020 route was highly praised for its mountains. Basically we have Etna, Piancavallo, Stelvio, Agnello/Izoard vs Zoncolana, Giau, Sega di Ala, Alpe Mera, San Bernardino/Spluga/Alpe Motta. Maybe the later combination is less legendary and the climbs don't have as much appeal as Stelvio and Agnello but they certainly create opportunities for good racing.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Opens course.

Sees no Duran

shudders

Red Rick is the kind of guy who goes on a date with Scarlett Johansson only to complain that her elbows are too pointy...

 

[Red Rick]

Red Rick is the kind of guy who goes on a date with Scarlett Johansson only to complain that her elbows are too pointy...

More like "You're this late Thomas won the Tour 3 years ago"

 

[tobydawq]

More like "You're this late Thomas won the Tour 3 years ago"

Maybe she had spent the time trying to round her elbows but look where that got her.