Vuelta a España 2022 Vuelta route rumors

[Red Rick]

Depends whether they're going through Sabinas or not, imo - if not, Telegraphe-Galibier has to be harder, maybe Blockhaus too.

Galibier isn't even the hardest climb on the stage.

I think there's arguments for Blockhaus and Granon, but nothing else. If they all get blasted then Sierra Nevada is the biggest one here, and I think you really only need one team to wanna blow up the race there.

Judging by how they raced Velifique this year I don't think it's gonna be a super calm race.

 

[staubsauger]

Sierra Nevada only really makes sense as an mtt like back in 2004. Actually that way they could make it a full 40 kilometers mtt up towards Veleta till the last parking area.

The idea idea with this setup probably is that Hazallanas works as a springboard with Sierra Nevada being enough false flat to make a long-range attack stay away. Thus, the Galibier-Les 2 Alpes & Finestre-Sestriere attempt.

I'm just not sure if it actually works out or if Sierra Nevada will be as irrelevant as always.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Sierra Nevada only really makes sense as an mtt like back in 2004. Actually that way they could make it a full 40 kilometers mtt up towards Veleta till the last parking area.

The idea idea with this setup probably is that Hazallanas works as a springboard with Sierra Nevada being enough false flat to make a long-range attack stay away. Thus, the Galibier-Les 2 Alpes & Finestre-Sestriere attempt.

I'm just not sure if it actually works out or if Sierra Nevada will be as irrelevant as always.

They have a hard MTF the day before, so it could work. I would have made the La Pandera stage really long, so that fatigue would be a bigger factor one day later (one could also make the Sierra Nevada stage longer/a proper tappone).
On paper it could work.

 

[staubsauger]

They have a hard MTF the day before, so it could work. I would have made the La Pandera stage really long, so that fatigue would be a bigger factor one day later (one could also make the Sierra Nevada stage longer/a proper tappone).
On paper it could work.

Yeah Pandera the day before heavily increases the chance to make Sierra Nevada work.

 

[Red Rick]

Sierra Nevada only really makes sense as an mtt like back in 2004. Actually that way they could make it a full 40 kilometers mtt up towards Veleta till the last parking area.

The idea idea with this setup probably is that Hazallanas works as a springboard with Sierra Nevada being enough false flat to make a long-range attack stay away. Thus, the Galibier-Les 2 Alpes & Finestre-Sestriere attempt.

I'm just not sure if it actually works out or if Sierra Nevada will be as irrelevant as always.

They have a hard MTF the day before, so it could work. I would have made the La Pandera stage really long, so that fatigue would be a bigger factor one day later (one could also make the Sierra Nevada stage longer/a proper tappone).
On paper it could work.

Pandera doesn't matter at all in my opinion. What really matters is that in 2017 they took the longer road between Monachil and Pradellano, which makes that you have 17km at 6% and under after Monachil.

If you go from Hazallanas and take the direct road to Sabinas, the remaining road is 7% average+ and attackers are much less boned than in the 2017 stage. Also important to note that in 2017 the winner of the stage attacked on Monachil against the ultra defensive and overpowered Sky train.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The stage profile as things stand clearly suggests it is the Sabinas side, with the 20km between the low point of the road from Güéjar Sierra before Hazallanas and the Hoya de la Mora finish matching up with this profile:

As such, as things stand this is not as likely to make Sierra Nevada a draining low gradient tempo stretch like it would be on the A-395 but a veritable Ventoux-alike, ascending over 1500m in just over 20km total and not relenting to 5% until 8km after Hazallanas, although part of me seems to recall original profiles for the 2017 stage suggesting they would take the Sabinas road. They did take the Las Sabinas road between El Purche and Sierra Nevada in 2009, this was where Evans had his infamous mechanical and the neutral service car had stopped for helado or something and was really slow to get to him and help.

 

[Red Rick]

The stage profile as things stand clearly suggests it is the Sabinas side, with the 20km between the low point of the road from Güéjar Sierra before Hazallanas and the Hoya de la Mora finish matching up with this profile:

As such, as things stand this is not as likely to make Sierra Nevada a draining low gradient tempo stretch like it would be on the A-395 but a veritable Ventoux-alike, ascending over 1500m in just over 20km total and not relenting to 5% until 8km after Hazallanas, although part of me seems to recall original profiles for the 2017 stage suggesting they would take the Sabinas road. They did take the Las Sabinas road between El Purche and Sierra Nevada in 2009, this was where Evans had his infamous mechanical and the neutral service car had stopped for helado or something and was really slow to get to him and help.

Yeah I was looking at that and finding climbs with similarities earlier. It's a lot like the climbs with the biggest differences IMO apart from the steep part in the beginning/middle being more concentrated but with the easier "second half" being longer. It's actually very similar to climbs like PSM, Ancares or Blockhaus that are hyped for flatting out to the top and creating massive gaps

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah I was looking at that and finding climbs with similarities earlier. It's a lot like the climbs with the biggest differences IMO apart from the steep part in the beginning/middle being more concentrated but with the easier "second half" being longer. It's actually very similar to climbs like PSM, Ancares or Blockhaus that are hyped for flatting out to the top and creating massive gaps

Blockhaus is probably the most immediate comparison, other than that closest to my immediate thought, although shorter, is Valico di Trivigno:

Or Chamrousse via Col Luitel, though that hasn't been climbed in competition.

 

[OlavEH]

Haha, this has to be one of the most uninspiring routes ever. The only redeeming quality is that they use the Hazallanas - Sierra Nevada finish for the (?) first time. This is a potential monster finish and could be really entertaining if ridden offensively.

Otherwise, this is mostly crap. The Alto de Piornal and Monestario de Tentuda stages seems more or less completely useless. One murito finish to Les Praeres is okay, but they could easily dropped at least three of or even four of the others MTFs for the benifit of other medium mountain stages without a 10-15 km MTF not connected to any other climbs. It has to be a desired policy for Unipublic. You could have a great medium mountain stage ending in a bigger city like Oviedo, but instead finishing in the middle of nowhere on Collau Fancuaya.

 

[yaco]

It's a typical Vuelta route - GC action in week one, hardest stages in week 2 and a more benign week 3 BUT which in the past has resulted in GC action.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Blockhaus is probably the most immediate comparison, other than that closest to my immediate thought, although shorter, is Valico di Trivigno:

Or Chamrousse via Col Luitel, though that hasn't been climbed in competition.

This side of Sierra Nevada is still lacking in steep kms compared to Blockhaus and La Pierre Saint-Martin.

Although it is proper steep - steeper - when it is. But it's only a stretch of 5 km of which ~ 4km are steep, followed by 15+ km of highway at almost 7% average.

The other climbs that were mentioned in this thread have only like 5kms after their steep and steep-ish parts.

I don't really get the hype. Maybe if Pogacar is a couple minutes back at that point but in great shape ...yeah, then I could see it.

 

[Red Rick]

This side of Sierra Nevada is still lacking in steep kms compared to Blockhaus and La Pierre Saint-Martin.

Although it is proper steep - steeper - when it is. But it's only a stretch of 5 km of which ~ 4km are steep, followed by 15+ km of highway at almost 7% average.

The other climbs that were mentioned in this thread have only like 5kms after their steep and steep-ish parts.

I don't really get the hype. Maybe if Pogacar is a couple minutes back at that point but in great shape ...yeah, then I could see it.

People like it cause it forces a selection early on the climb, and every single climb or combo of climbs that did absolute carnage basically had this, even if not to this degree. Literally takes 2 domestiques to rip the race to pieces.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Anything to appease Pogacar and Evenepoel, it seems. Or their teams, rather.

Has this ever happened - one or even zero HC climbs - in a GT since the Vuelta was moved to August / September? Or in the Giro and Tour since the Second World War?

It's called the Moser-Saronni era, the dark age of Italian cycling...

 

[Red Rick]

The lack of HCs in the Vuelta isn't that weird, there's quite a few times it only has 2-3 HCs, and even then Lagos de Covadonga and some others are generally really borderline.

 

[roundabout]

1998 had 2 overcategorized Esp climbs (only 2 Esp climbs). IIRC even the original stage 12 route of that edition did not have extra Esp climbs that were removed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This side of Sierra Nevada is still lacking in steep kms compared to Blockhaus and La Pierre Saint-Martin.

Although it is proper steep - steeper - when it is. But it's only a stretch of 5 km of which ~ 4km are steep, followed by 15+ km of highway at almost 7% average.

The other climbs that were mentioned in this thread have only like 5kms after their steep and steep-ish parts.

I don't really get the hype. Maybe if Pogacar is a couple minutes back at that point but in great shape ...yeah, then I could see it.

The Sabinas road is no wider than Mont Ventoux?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The Sabinas road is no wider than Mont Ventoux?

Ah, you're right. I remembered it wrong - that stage was ages ago. That helps. Still, I think Hazzalanas is too far away from the finish to expect fireworks.

I would have liked this stage better as the penultimate mountain stage (logistically impossible, I'd guess) when accumulated fatigue is a bigger factor. Followed by a medium mountain stage (stage 20) that has the potential to be GC-relevant.

...or as the first proper hard stage. At least it's followed by a rest day. That's something.

 

[ice&fire]

Ah, you're right. I remembered it wrong - that stage was ages ago. That helps. Still, I think Hazzalanas is too far away from the finish to expect fireworks.

I would have liked this stage better as the penultimate mountain stage (logistically impossible, I'd guess) when accumulated fatigue is a bigger factor. Followed by a medium mountain stage (stage 20) that has the potential to be GC-relevant.

...or as the first proper hard stage. At least it's followed by a rest day. That's something.

I don't think a transfer from Sierra Nevada is more challenging than a transfer from Angliru.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think a transfer from Sierra Nevada is more challenging than a transfer from Angliru.

Actually it probably is, as it would likely involve air travel. León is the terminus of one of the AVE routes, so once you get down from Angliru's summit the A-66 will take you to León without having to go over the Pajáres summit, and then Madrid is 3-4 stops on the AVE. From Sierra Nevada you have to get down from the summit and into central Granada (not too difficult as you can use the A-395) but the train route doesn't go directly north from there on the high speed lines. You'd likely either have to take a rather inconvenient stopping train northward via Linares, drive the whole way on the Autovía del Sur, or take the AVE across to Antequera and change trains to head north, from which it's 6-7 stops to arrive in Madrid.

It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, certainly bearing in mind some of the final day transfers the Tour has thrown in recently, but it does require a bit more logistical thought than Angliru.

 

[Red Rick]

Actually it probably is, as it would likely involve air travel. León is the terminus of one of the AVE routes, so once you get down from Angliru's summit the A-66 will take you to León without having to go over the Pajáres summit, and then Madrid is 3-4 stops on the AVE. From Sierra Nevada you have to get down from the summit and into central Granada (not too difficult as you can use the A-395) but the train route doesn't go directly north from there on the high speed lines. You'd likely either have to take a rather inconvenient stopping train northward via Linares, drive the whole way on the Autovía del Sur, or take the AVE across to Antequera and change trains to head north, from which it's 6-7 stops to arrive in Madrid.

It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, certainly bearing in mind some of the final day transfers the Tour has thrown in recently, but it does require a bit more logistical thought than Angliru.

Just when I thought we were all over the "final mountain stage big MTF thing".... Sierra Nevada, especially through Hazallanas and Sabinas is much better as a first stage in a mountain block there.

Think if I had to do 3 stages around there I would do it like

1. Pretty straightforward MTF on Alguacil. Probably throw Ragua early in the stage
2. Monachil-Sabinas-Cumbres Verde
3. Big stage around Haza del Lino. Probably with multiple ascents and a descent finish somewhere.

 

[ice&fire]

Actually it probably is, as it would likely involve air travel. León is the terminus of one of the AVE routes, so once you get down from Angliru's summit the A-66 will take you to León without having to go over the Pajáres summit, and then Madrid is 3-4 stops on the AVE. From Sierra Nevada you have to get down from the summit and into central Granada (not too difficult as you can use the A-395) but the train route doesn't go directly north from there on the high speed lines. You'd likely either have to take a rather inconvenient stopping train northward via Linares, drive the whole way on the Autovía del Sur, or take the AVE across to Antequera and change trains to head north, from which it's 6-7 stops to arrive in Madrid.

It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, certainly bearing in mind some of the final day transfers the Tour has thrown in recently, but it does require a bit more logistical thought than Angliru.

There are trains that go from Granada to Madrid in about 3h30, just 1h more than from Leon, but the station would be closer to the stage finish. The problem might be not having trains with a departure time late in the evening. But evacuation of the finish is much easier in Sierra Nevada and the road trip from stage finish to Madrid for the team cars and buses and the race caravan is about the same distance.

Actually, they did a transfer from Andorra in 2018 that surely was more challenging than a potential transfer from Sierra Nevada and I believe riders travelled by plane from La Seu d'Urgell.

Anyway, 18-Valve. (pithy) was suggesting having Sierra Nevada on Friday and a mid mountain stage on Saturday. That would be much easier.

Finally, there's a detail that I don't know if it was picked up by the audience during the route presentation. The stage on the 6th of September HAD to depart from Sanlucar de Barrameda, and that sets a constraint to the route in the 2nd and 3rd week if they want to visit Extremadura, Andalucia, Murcia and Alicante. History nerds migth be interested in looking for what happened in Sanlucar de Barrameda on the 6th of September 499 years ago.

 

[Red Rick]

FInally, there's a detail that I don't know if it was picked up by the audience during the route presentation. The stage on the 6th of September HAD to depart from Sanlucar de Barrameda, and that sets a constaint to the route in the 2nd and 3rd week if they want to visit Extremadura, Andalucia, Murcia and Alicante. History nerds migth be interested in looking for what happened in Sanlucar de Barrameda on the 6th of September 499 years ago.

Celebrating the original Grand Tour? Every Grand Tour after is merely a sad imitation

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Just when I thought we were all over the "final mountain stage big MTF thing".... Sierra Nevada, especially through Hazallanas and Sabinas is much better as a first stage in a mountain block there.

Think if I had to do 3 stages around there I would do it like

1. Pretty straightforward MTF on Alguacil. Probably throw Ragua early in the stage
2. Monachil-Sabinas-Cumbres Verde
3. Big stage around Haza del Lino. Probably with multiple ascents and a descent finish somewhere.

I'd like it as the penultimate mountain stage (as I said). Would prefer it if the first mountain stage in week 3 would have 5500m + worth of climbing. This one is (supposedly) 4000m + but with a lot of false flat in the first part of the stage.

 

[ice&fire]

Celebrating the original Grand Tour? Every Grand Tour after is merely a sad imitation

Thanks God modern Grand Tours are 3 weeks long, not 3 years as that one.

 

[Red Rick]

Thanks God modern Grand Tours are 3 weeks long, not 3 years as that one.

Imagine how much we could nitpick on the parcours