-
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Route Analysis | Profiles & Route Tour de France 2023
Profiles. The 2023 Tour de France will take place from the 1
cyclinguptodate.com
Not sure if this was posted, but this includes a bit more detail of all the stage profiles, as well as analysis of the various stages
Some of the medium mountain stages look harder, such as Stage 12, with 3 back to back to back climbs near the end
Route Analysis | Profiles & Route Tour de France 2023
Profiles. The 2023 Tour de France will take place from the 1
Not sure if this was posted, but this includes a bit more detail of all the stage profiles, as well as analysis of the various stages
Some of the medium mountain stages look harder, such as Stage 12, with 3 back to back to back climbs near the end
I still think it looks very interesting. Apart from a small amount of TT kilometres I remain flabbergasted as to what can possibly be so wrong with this.
Do you think there was anything lacking in the 2020 route?
What mountain stage(s) do you look most forward to?
I'm disappointed that the only mountain stage with a decent volume has a long climb in the end where the last 5 km of it block the rest of the stage.
Not really, no. It was unfortunate that Jumbo were content with the race situation, otherwise they could have done a lot of damage. Let's not forget that Roglic got a cap on the gravel section after Glières and could have made that stage great if he had realised that he needed to gap Pogacar more. Grand Colombier was a dud but I see no guarantee for a replay of that. The dud did include the fall of the defending champion, though. Great first weekend, unfortunate with slippery roads. Fine entertainment in the Pyrenees.
Probably stages 9 (just to see that climb with my own eyes), 15, 17 and 20.
The volume is distributed to more stages these year than in Leblanc's days. For a guy who wants no rest days, I cannot see why you can't be happy about that.
The only combo of climbs that chains as well as (Aubisque,) Spandelles and Hautacam are Petit Ballon and Platzerwasel next year. The rest of the mountain stages come down to the final climb. While I look forward to see Puy de Dôme again, the only final climb that I think is good as a final climb is Joux Plane. So there's two mountain stages where I like the finale, but they belong to Tour de l'Avenir, not Tour de France.
I'd rather have only 3 high mountain stages, if it meant they were all gruelling and enabled long action. A few good options, where the climbers better make it count. Then you could have some medium mountain stages as well, and I've already applauded the opening weekend.
I'd rather have only 3 high mountain stages, if it meant they were all gruelling and enabled long action. A few good options, where the climbers better make it count. Then you could have some medium mountain stages as well, and I've already applauded the opening weekend.
Last edited:
I would certainly not be happy at all with only three mountain stages.
Also, nothing is ensured. You don't know that those stages you say only come down to the final climb. You may have your theories but they remain that. Theories.
Just send Van Aert up the road, and Vingegaard has all the tools to attack early if he should fancy it.
Also, nothing is ensured. You don't know how those genes will be expressed. You may have your theories but they remain that. Theories.
Just create the right environment, and any set of genes can achieve great accomplishments.
Just create the right environment, and any set of genes can achieve great accomplishments.
The Pyreenees is a bit underwhelming, but otherwise I think the route is at least fairly good. There are more positive aspects than the opposite. I have a list of about 10 good climbs or combos of climbs which are good for creating big gaps and being decisive points in the Tour. Of these, four are used in next year's Tour. I think the Le Markstein stage should have more distance and climbs and that there should be more after Col de la Loze than just 6 km of descent, but all in all it is better than many other options that could have been used.
You mean which ones?
Col de la Loze
Grand Colombier
Joux Plane
Petit Ballon - Platzerwesel combo
Of course, there should be more after Col de la Loze and GC should instead be climbed from a different side for example using the Biche-Grand Colombier combo.
But this is better than having a Alpe d'Huez finish, a long mountain stage to Andorra with a underwhelming finish or a typical Pyrenees stage ending at Peyragudes, Luz Ardiden or with a descent finish to Bagneres de Luchon.
How on Earth does GC from Culoz better qualify for "I have a list of about 10 good climbs or combos of climbs which are good for creating big gaps and being decisive points in the Tour" than Alpe d'Huez does?
And Loze is watered down with the Courchevel detour. It has 7 km in the middle that are rolling/false flat.
Joux Plane would make the list if it was together with Joux Verte.
And Loze is watered down with the Courchevel detour. It has 7 km in the middle that are rolling/false flat.
Joux Plane would make the list if it was together with Joux Verte.
Last edited:
Okay, maybe not that one. GC via Biche would have been much better.
But the options in France for these kind of stages are limited. There are maybe a handful of climbs that are so tough and can be used as a MTF without any good connecting climbs. And there are an other handful of good combos which could prompt action for more than 3-4-5 kms.
I agree on those marked with italics.
Tignes via Iseran. Perhaps, but then you have do to more climbing first. A long stage including also Mont Cenis would make it better.
Chamrousse via Luitel is good. But do you mean descending towards Grenoble from Luitel and then do the other route to Chamrousse? Just Chamrousse directly after Luitel is just one singular climb and woudn't be much different than other of that type. And Laffrey I don't think would have much impact regardless of how you finished to Chamrousse.
And Loze-Meribel? Yeah, I can agree on this. But I still think the current stage is at least okay, better than more classic MTFs like Huez, Beille, Luz A, etc.
Granon is a much better MTF after Galibier than LDA.
Is a MTF at Porte possible? And that question applies even more to Epine? It doesn't look that there is much room there.
I would add Romme-Colombiere and Pailheres-Plateau de Bonascre. And say that Mont du Chat is best/most realistic as a descent finish.
I think all of them are clearly better than the four you listed. With or without a proper preparation. They wouldn't necessarily be MTFs. Chamrousse as used in the end of this design: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35931698
A few tweaks would have made it better
Final day TT. No reason for the circuit race. Just turn that into a ~35 km ITT
Cauterets stage should have included Peyresourde first
Grand Colombier stage is far far too short. Include some real climbs before. Make the stage ~180-200km
Stage 16 just needs to be 10-15km longer. It's a good hilly TT, just more appropriate for PN than the TDF
Stage 20... this was a big time let down. An easier version of the Vuelta stage 20. I'd rather do the exact 2014 stage where Contador crashed and finish at the top of PDBF instead of 1km down the mountain. Yes, PDBF is over used. However, put it at the end of a real queen stage and it's a fine climb. It sucks as a unipuerto, however
Toby, I made the distinction between high mountain stages and medium mountain stages. So something like stage 20 in addition to the proper mountain stages. Other than the Vosges, Jura and Massif Central, I consider the Vercors as medium mountains as well.
If used well (so like next year after high mountain stages and not as warm-up), I think something as easy and low gradient as this could be raced well: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41369524
Last edited:
Chamrousse that way after Luitel and descending could be very good. But the last climb is long and fairly tough so it wouldn't be certain or even probably with attacks already on Luitel. It would definitely soften the riders legs, but I'm not sure it is a very high likelyhood of much action before the last climb to Camgrousse.
And that version of Loze is better than a pure MTF. Some descent and a short ramp at the end. Far better than for example an Alpe or Plateau de Beille finish. If ridden as hard as Jumbo and Pog did for the hardest three mountain stages this year, it is pretty likely that it would create big gaps. Bigger than a Iseran-Tignes finish would. The same applies for the Joux-Plane stage. If ridden hard earlier on the stage, the last climb to Joux-Plane and the descent to Morzine could create some big gaps.
The route next year is far from great, but it is still okay. I think I gave it a 6 (or 7?). But it is at least as good as many of the other routes the last decade or so.
And if we're talking about stages where climbs or combos of climbs are likely to create big gaps, I would think that most of the following covers the most of the best options in France:
Alps and Jura:
Iseran - Galibier - Granon. This is the one stage I would most like to see in the Tour. LDA could also be used, but Granon is just much tougher.
Bonette - Auron (preceeded by a couple of other climbs) like Allos-Cayolle or Izoard-Vars.
Loze - Vanoise or Meribel MTF.
Joux Plane to Morzine or Les Gets. Or Joux Plane - Joux Verte - Morzine. I would actually prefer the Les Gets finish if Joux Plane were preceeded by several other climbs.
Glandon/Croix de Fer - Madeleine - Valmorel, or even Chaussy - St.Francois Longchamps.
Mont du Chat - descent finish. Should of course be preceeded by other climbs.
Grand Colombier MTF (or descent finish) via Biche (and Lacets de Colombier)
Romme - Colombiere to Le Grand Bonard.
Pyrenees:
Aubisque - Spandelles - Hautacam.
Pailheres - Plateau de Bonascre
Portet MTF preceeded by some other climbs.
Pla d'Adet as used in 2005.
And you of course also have Ventoux which perhaps have the most brutal profile in France, and could be great if they were lucky with the weather (no headwind) and decided not to soft-pedal most of the climb.
The "holy grail" in the future:
Madeleide - Tougnete - Meribel or Vanoise MTF. Actually a quite possible stage in a couple of years from now.
It has to be said that ASO really overhype the final steep ramp, they've added around 3% to the average gradient and now idea how they get an 18% gradient (inside of a hairpin for a few meters maybe?).On its own, I'm not sure how much better this use of Loze is than a more classic MTF.
While I do agree with you that Loze from this side is less interesting because of that flat section let's be real, it's always gonna come down to the final 5 kms, no matter what.
In 2020 it was actually used well, probably too late in the race, but the combination with the Glieres stage one day later was perfect. On that day Pogacar was suffering and Roglic was clearly the strongest, but didn't attack because Rabofail. I understand that the overall trend of the race was pointing towards Pogacar getting a bit weaker, but he had beaten Roglic in the uphill TT at the Slovenian NC, so gaining extra time here could have been a big psychological advantage. That stage right after the biggest MTF of the race was actually really well designed, the hardest climb topped with 36.5kms to go, you had that unpaved road on top of the climb and very little flat until the end of the stage. By far the best designed stage of that Tour, but the strongest team with the strongest rider that day didn't want to gain more time...
Landa tried something and Adam Yates + Uran lost around 2:40, but it could have been much more devastating...
Imagine if they had used this year's tactics and sent Van Aert up the road ...
If they sorted out that last 1,5km (or thought it was safe enough to traverse à la Glières) of Pré Long, Chamrousse via Luitel --> Pré Long via Le Mas Julien --> Pipay-les-Sept-Laux would be a brutal chain. At the moment it can only be a pipe dream as it would need work to even be suitable as a sterrato pass, but the steepest and hardest parts to work on are already tarmacked.
Extra minutes for everyone else.
Sadly they raced like the TT had already happened and this was the final gc stage.
TRENDING THREADS
-
2024 Giro d'Italia, Stage 1: Venaria Reale - Torino, 140 km (Saturday, May 4)- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 552
-
Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 2: San Francesco al Campo – Santuario di Oropa (Biella), 161.0 km- Started by Netserk
- Replies: 28
-
-
Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7- Started by Dreginald
- Replies: 2K
-
Liege Bastogne Liege-7 hour monument, Sunday, April 21, 2024- Started by topcat
- Replies: 986
-
77th Tour de Romandie (2.UWT) // 23rd - 28th of April 2024- Started by Logic-is-your-friend
- Replies: 803
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 24K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram