2023 Tour de France route rumors

[pman]

Can any of you guys design a stage that finishes in Delmont? I think it could be a pretty fun Jura stage.

 

[Netserk]

Do you mean Delémont?

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[Green Jersey Mike]

Given the timing of the time trial after the stage to Morzine, I think that a return to Avoriaz as a mountain time trial could be in the works. After all, Morzine is no strange to the mountain time trial. Remember the 1994 edition. That was epic. Big Mig finished 3rd on the day and still lost 3 minutes. Before this Avoriaz was frequently used as a mountain time trial, especially in the late 70's and early 80's in the hay-day of the Tour de France Mountain Time Trial. Or alternatively they could do a Time Trial to Châtel from either Evian-les-Bains or Morzine. A finish in Châtel would be a hilly affair and at least 35 k from either town. This would be the sort of time trial that will suit those that have recovered the best. It is the sort of Time Trial that would be won by the best all rounder.

 

[gavia88]

well, I doubt it wel be a full MTT, as the time trial around the pyrenees is rumoured as a TTT, there is most likely no spot anymore for a real flat time trial. Impossible it isn't. 2020 didn't had a real flat time trial neither. But in case it will be the only ITT, I expect more something mixed, than full MTT. Time to have some better rumours about the time trial(s).

 

[Green Jersey Mike]

well, I doubt it wel be a full MTT, as the time trial around the pyrenees is rumoured as a TTT, there is most likely no spot anymore for a real flat time trial. Impossible it isn't. 2020 didn't had a real flat time trial neither. But in case it will be the only ITT, I expect more something mixed, than full MTT. Time to have some better rumours about the time trial(s).

We can hope that the Tour organizers do not include only a MTT and a TTT. After all these were the guys in power who designed the atrocious 2015 course that had a single useless Time Trial on the opening day and only a TTT additionally. The TTT itself was an interesting course but the lack of TT k that Tour was abhorrent. Christian Prudhomme and his team seem to be anti-TT as a general rule. Since he began designing courses, the average amount of TTk has been just shy of 56. In the last 5 years, only one Tour de France has had that many. I am not advocating that the Tour return to the 120 km that it used to have. Rather 40-50 should be the low end for a Time Trial unfriendly course, 70ish the norm and 90-110 for a Tour when the French have a Time Trial gifted rider with a hope of winning. It should also be noted that the last truly heavy TT course (2012) had terrible Mountain Stages. In my opinion the last properly balanced routes were 2008 and 2013 respectively. The 2008 course which at the time was seen as TT light had a nice balance between Mountain days and TT's. The looming penultimate day TT made the racing in the Alps all the more entertaining and interesting. Even though the final TT did not ultimately change much of the outcome of the top 10, save the decent of Frank Schleck, the knowledge of it coming radically influenced the rest of the race. The stage itself was quite exciting as we watched Carlos Sastre defend brilliantly against a defeated Cadel Evans. 2013 had two reasonably distanced TT's that both offered something very different. The first favoured the true specialists and the second the climbers. This route was still balanced toward a pure climber but in some ways less so than future editions have been.

 

[houtdffan]

Prudhomme doesn't design the courses.

Govenou does. He and Guillen are by far the worst

 

[Animal]

There’s going to be a time trial up the Gorge de la Nesque. A beautiful limestone gorge near my adopted home of Bédoin. It’s a 20k false flat clinging to the side of the gorge.

It’s my favourite training run and just after the Tour, I was out there and kept being passed by a TDF van which kept stopping while the occupants got out to take photos.

At the top, I asked them if they were planning a route up there and they said yes, it would be a time trial. Make of that what you will. If true, I can’t imagine they’d pass up a Ventoux stage finish!

 

[sir fly]

There’s going to be a time trial up the Gorge de la Nesque. A beautiful limestone gorge near my adopted home of Bédoin. It’s a 20k false flat clinging to the side of the gorge.

It’s my favourite training run and just after the Tour, I was out there and kept being passed by a TDF van which kept stopping while the occupants got out to take photos.

At the top, I asked them if they were planning a route up there and they said yes, it would be a time trial. Make of that what you will. If true, I can’t imagine they’d pass up a Ventoux stage finish!

That would be a bit off from all the rumours.

 

[Animal]

I'd like to see a real Ventoux epic. Like the Cinglés, the three times up Ventoux.

Obviously, U-turns to descend are not practical in a race, so three summits are not practical, but there is a great multi-ascent route which involves some great terrain around the mountain to get round to each start point.

Three times (nearly) up Ventoux | 183.2 km Cycling Route on Strava

Three times (nearly) up Ventoux is a 183.2 km Cycling Route. Discover this route and more at Strava. Visit today!

www.strava.com

If you start from Malaucene, then a three times up tour is possible: https://www.strava.com/routes/3017687414091707512

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

This post by Barbote on Velowire is part specualtion, but is probably not too far off.

1 Sa 1 juillet Bilbao – Bilbao (PB) S
2 Di 2 Vitoria – San Sebastian (PB) (Jaizkibel) Bar
3 Lu 3 Amorebieta (PB) – Bayonne S
4 Mar 4 Dax – Laruns (Iraty, Marie-Blanque) Bar
5 Mer 5 Pau – Cauterets (Tourmalet) M
6 Jeu 6 Tarbes CLM par equipes
7 Ven 7 Mont-de-Marsan – Bordeaux S
8 Sa 8 Libourne – Limoges S
9 Di 9 St.-Leonard-de-Noblat – Puy-de-Dôme M

Lu 10 juillet repos
10 Mar 11 Vulcania – Issoire (Croix-Morand, Stèle, St.-Anastaise) Bar
11 Mer 12 Clermont-Ferrand – Moulins S
12 Jeu 13 Roanne – Belleville-en-Beaujolais Bar
13 Ven 14 Chatillon-sur-Chalaronne – Col du Grand Colombier (Grand Colombier) M
14 Sa 15 Annemasse – Morzine (Mont Salève, Ramaz, Joux Plane) M
15 Di 16 Les Gets – St.-Gervais-les-Bains (Les Amerands) CLM

Lu 17 juillet repos
16 Mar 18 Sallanches – Courchevel/Col de la Loze (Saisies, Pré, Cormet de Roselend) M
17 Mer 19 Moutiers – Annecy (Frêne, Mont Revard, Semnoz) M
18 Jeu 20 Aix-les-Bains – Bourg-en-Bresse Bar
19 Ven 21 Poligny - Vittel S
20 Sa 22 Belfort – Col du Grand Ballon (Ballon d'Alsace, Schlucht, Platzerwasel) M
21 Di 23 Vélodrome de St-Quentin-en-Yvelines – Paris-Champs-Elysées S

 

[KZD]

This post by Barbote on Velowire is part specualtion, but is probably not too far off.

1 Sa 1 juillet Bilbao – Bilbao (PB) S
2 Di 2 Vitoria – San Sebastian (PB) (Jaizkibel) Bar
3 Lu 3 Amorebieta (PB) – Bayonne S
4 Mar 4 Dax – Laruns (Iraty, Marie-Blanque) Bar
5 Mer 5 Pau – Cauterets (Tourmalet) M
6 Jeu 6 Tarbes CLM par equipes
7 Ven 7 Mont-de-Marsan – Bordeaux S
8 Sa 8 Libourne – Limoges S
9 Di 9 St.-Leonard-de-Noblat – Puy-de-Dôme M

Lu 10 juillet repos
10 Mar 11 Vulcania – Issoire (Croix-Morand, Stèle, St.-Anastaise) Bar
11 Mer 12 Clermont-Ferrand – Moulins S
12 Jeu 13 Roanne – Belleville-en-Beaujolais Bar
13 Ven 14 Chatillon-sur-Chalaronne – Col du Grand Colombier (Grand Colombier) M
14 Sa 15 Annemasse – Morzine (Mont Salève, Ramaz, Joux Plane) M
15 Di 16 Les Gets – St.-Gervais-les-Bains (Les Amerands) CLM

Lu 17 juillet repos
16 Mar 18 Sallanches – Courchevel/Col de la Loze (Saisies, Pré, Cormet de Roselend) M
17 Mer 19 Moutiers – Annecy (Frêne, Mont Revard, Semnoz) M
18 Jeu 20 Aix-les-Bains – Bourg-en-Bresse Bar
19 Ven 21 Poligny - Vittel S
20 Sa 22 Belfort – Col du Grand Ballon (Ballon d'Alsace, Schlucht, Platzerwasel) M
21 Di 23 Vélodrome de St-Quentin-en-Yvelines – Paris-Champs-Elysées S

If that's the route is pretty solid though its once again more in the South of France and I really hope that the TTT on stage 6 turns out to be an ITT otherwise Jumbo is going to get a big advantage and they are already the stronger team

 

[gavia88]

If that's the route is pretty solid though its once again more in the South of France and I really hope that the TTT on stage 6 turns out to be an ITT otherwise Jumbo is going to get a big advantage and they are already the stronger team

well, on the other hand, it would trigger Pogacar to ride aggresive already early in the race to make time up, which seems only be a good scenario. Of course, Pogacar is already a rider that attacks a lot. But considering that maybe he was to enthousiastic this years tour, he would ride a little bit more definsive when he doesn't have to wast energy. Him forcing to race is only good for the tour.

 

[pman]

In terms of the route posted by Barbote on Velowire I think most of us think that will more or less be the route. I think there are still plenty of question marks about when and where the ITTs will be. There's also the emerging theory that stage 19 finishes in Switzerland. That theory makes sense given that it would toughen up the last week with a pure Jura stage before the finish on Col du Grand Ballon the next day, with a hilly stage to Bourg-en-Bresse before that.

I have a few thoughts:
1) I'd love to see a final week without any pure sprints. I think that's an insurance policy against an uncompetitive GC race. If you're going to finish the 3rd week outside of the two major mountain chains, make each stage a competitive, spicy one. Teams like UAE will attack those stages.

2) I hate TTT but I think the one on stage 6 is a done deal. Riders are already tweeting about it. Jumbo will probably put a minute or two into UAE which will force Pog into more attacks which was of course something he was supposed to learn not to do from the past Tour. He has shown an ability to put in stinging attacks when he concentrates his efforts but nobody can race each day. On the other hand, we've all known a TTT was coming this year or next for a while and with their budget, UAE has no excuse for not signing more time trialists.

 

[Peyroteo94]

They are not stupid. They put a TTT because jumbo will take time on UAE and this will force Pogi to be agressive just like this year. An agressive Pogi means more attacks, a more spectacular show, more money.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

I hate the fact that we might see two mountain time trails in the same year. I know Giro and Tour are more competitors than partners, but over the last years the difference between the two made them so that for each GC rider there is a logical option (which they did not choose always, because the tour is the tour). I fear that both Giro and Tour might suit the same type of riders (Remco), and for the rest they are only average (Pogi and the 2022 Jonas are good on all parcours)!

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

In terms of the route posted by Barbote on Velowire I think most of us think that will more or less be the route. I think there are still plenty of question marks about when and where the ITTs will be. There's also the emerging theory that stage 19 finishes in Switzerland. That theory makes sense given that it would toughen up the last week with a pure Jura stage before the finish on Col du Grand Ballon the next day, with a hilly stage to Bourg-en-Bresse before that.

Yeah, I still have hopes for stage 19. If so, the Grand Ballon stage will likely be soft, but I'll gladly take that vs. a hard Gd Ballon stage + yet another flat stage on day 18.

 

[KZD]

well, on the other hand, it would trigger Pogacar to ride aggresive already early in the race to make time up, which seems only be a good scenario. Of course, Pogacar is already a rider that attacks a lot. But considering that maybe he was to enthousiastic this years tour, he would ride a little bit more definsive when he doesn't have to wast energy. Him forcing to race is only good for the tour.

Yes that is probably their reasoning although I personally dislike seeing the GC riders with stronger teams being even more helped by a TTT. The dynamic of the race between Pogačar and Vingegård will likely change if there is one in next year's race Pogačar will most likely not be able to make up the difference lost in the TTT just with bonus seconds so he will need to attack as you said or hope to gain time in the ITT alternatively.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

If we are talking about a possible stage 19 finish outside France, maybe the black forest (geologically the big brother of the Vosges) in Germany may be an option? I mean, the tour made some trips to Switzerland, but Germany (or even Italy (hope for Agnel, Izoard, Granon in 2024) weren't visited for quite a long time outside a Grand Depart.

 

[rghysens]

Yes that is probably their reasoning although I personally dislike seeing the GC riders with stronger teams being even more helped by a TTT. The dynamic of the race between Pogačar and Vingegård will likely change if there is one in next year's race Pogačar will most likely not be able to make up the difference lost in the TTT just with bonus seconds so he will need to attack as you said or hope to gain time in the ITT alternatively.

If it would be an itt instead of a ttt, either Pogacar or Vingegaard would lose some time to the other and would be forced to attack. There´s nothing a ttt can do that an itt can´t do too.

 

[KZD]

If it would be an itt instead of a ttt, either Pogacar or Vingegaard would lose some time to the other and would be forced to attack. There´s nothing a ttt can do that an itt can´t do too.

But then it would be just Pogačar against Vingegård so the differences would reflect the strength between the two and not their teams (and I bet the differences will be larger in a TTT than with an ITT between the two). Also a TTT at stage 6 will most likely mean that some teams will not have 8 riders anymore.

 

[Andy schleck]

They are not stupid. They put a TTT because jumbo will take time on UAE and this will force Pogi to be agressive just like this year. An agressive Pogi means more attacks, a more spectacular show, more money.

It's safe to say that if it was a ITT pogacar could take time on vingegaard.

 

[rghysens]

It's safe to say that if it was a ITT pogacar could take time on vingegaard.

Given the results of this years itt´s, it´s not safe to say that.

 

[Andy schleck]

Given the results of this years itt´s, it´s not safe to say that.

Not safe* thanks!

 

[Sciatic]

There’s going to be a time trial up the Gorge de la Nesque. A beautiful limestone gorge near my adopted home of Bédoin. It’s a 20k false flat clinging to the side of the gorge.

It’s my favourite training run and just after the Tour, I was out there and kept being passed by a TDF van which kept stopping while the occupants got out to take photos.

At the top, I asked them if they were planning a route up there and they said yes, it would be a time trial. Make of that what you will. If true, I can’t imagine they’d pass up a Ventoux stage finish!

Love the insider info! And envious you can do regular rides in a place like that

 

[BigCoward]

If there is a TTT pog should go to the Giro out of spite. Pog V Rog V Remco steals a lot of the tours thunder.