21 ESP climbs the Vuelta should use

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Ain't it quite the same at Kronplatz?

Also there really ain't no pretest vehicles after Hoya de la Mora?

Couldn't they simply get special authorization? At worst only for the escort cars / motorbikes and then just take the riders back to the caravans at Hoya de la Mora by the ski-lift?

Guess I got to much fantasy, right?
 
Aug 2, 2015
71
0
0
Re:

staubsauger said:
Couldn't they simply get special authorization? At worst only for the escort cars / motorbikes and then just take the riders back to the caravans at Hoya de la Mora by the ski-lift?

Guess I got to much fantasy, right?
Vuelta did Cuitu Negru, and will do the Cortals d'Encamp so this might not be a fantasy at all. That's only my wishful thinking of course. I hope that the autorisation is the only problem for the organisers. A finish over 3100m would be more than a succesful PR campaign.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
And so, we come to the final part of our list. No, no climbs from Las Canarias; I've tried to keep it logistically viable. Certainly there are a great many ESP-worthy climbs in the islands, but the logistics of including them in La Vuelta have meant that several times plans to include them have been abandoned. So we stay on mainland Europe, for something that is both the most obvious, the most easy to add in and simultaneously the most impractical of the whole countdown. Did you guess it?

21. Sierra Nevada... properly
Heading for the skies, sayonara Bonette

49247741.PicoVeleta1.jpg


I already touched on this when discussing the Collado del Algüacil, but it bears repeating. The Sierra Nevada is one of the Vuelta's most iconic summits, first entering the route in 1979 on a stage from Córdoba which was won by the legendary Joop Zoetemelk. At first, stages were somewhat anæmic, such as this one from 1986, although they did improve with stages such as the legendary Bert Dietz stage from 1995. These stages to this point were utilizing the traditional side of the climb, the main road from Granada to the ski resort town of Pradollano, which clocks in at 22,2km @ 5,6%. In 2003 they extended this by climbing past Pradollano to finish at Hoya de la Mora, which extended the climb to 30km @ 5,7% and increased the finishing altitude to 2510m. A year later they reduced the finishing altitude back down to 2100m in a difficult MTT, also introducing a new side, this being the second half of the traditional side, but the first half being the Collado del Muerto, otherwise known as the Alto del Monachíl in Unipublic parlance, or El Purche for traceurs. Though the statistics were not especially affected (22,9km @ 5,6%) the stop-start nature of El Purche with its 6km at 9% in the middle meant that we had a winner on our hands. When the Vuelta returned to Sierra Nevada after a five year absence in 2009, they went one better, combining El Purche with the ascent into Pradollano via the Collado de las Sabinas. Frustratingly, however, they elected to divide the climbs even though there was practically no respite between El Purche (12,2km @ 6,2%) and the second half of the climb (16,9km @ 5,5% including a bit of descent). The climb in total is the same as this profile (so 25,5km @ 5,7%) then this run in, ending in the Area Autocaravanas at 2380m. Estimating from the stage profile we get 29,9km @ 5,6% as the overall total.

This history lesson is all well & good, Libertine, you might say, but this is kind of supposed to be about climbs the Vuelta SHOULD be using, not IS using. And you would be right. Hence why I said it's kind of cheating here but still needs to be discussed and is definitely a worthy part of this thread. There are two factors that the Vuelta is capable of changing regarding its Sierra Nevada stages, and they are large ones:
1) the finishing line
2) the route they use to get there.

Let us look at the routes first, because once we're up to 2400m they're all the same anyway; before then, however, there are a number of routes to get to the summit. The Vuelta has thus far used three: From Granada to Pradollano on the A-395, from Monachíl to Pradollano by El Purche and the A-395, and from Monachíl to Pradollano via El Purche and the Collado de las Sabinas. The first "alternative" version is to climb the A-395 to El Dornajo and then go into Pradollano via the alternative route used in 2009. This gives 28,7km @ 5,8% to get to 2380m, which is more than solid, but is still a real tempo grinding climb as we are looking at fairly consistent gradient. What we're really here to talk about in terms of these routes is the side via Güejar Sierra. After all, you all saw the 2013 Vuelta. You are therefore all aware of the brutality that is inflicted on the riders between that village and El Dornajo via Haza Llana. Well, that road goes all the way up to the Collado de las Sabinas, and therefore it can be turned into an even more brutal mountain.

perfil-sabinas3.png


Yes, that's right, an almighty 27,4km @ 6,4% including more gradients over 10% than you dare shake your leg at unless you're really cramping up. That climb is going via the Collado de las Sabinas, so you could go as far as 2173m, then have the couple of km flat and the run-in to Pradollano and the Area Autocaravanas shown earlier, however that climb takes us to the Cruce that then would give us about 400m descending into the Area Autocaravanas to make a much more solid finale (this was the original planned finish for 2009 before they decided to take them through the town for logistical reasons). It also stacks up damn well against the Tourmalet, and indeed even if you remove the false flat and descent around Güejar Sierra, you still have a definite ESP climb - 18,0km @ 8,0%. That's ESP in anyone's language.

It would also be feasible to use the El Dornajo climb to lead in to climbing the easier route, on the main road, but really I see that as quite pointless. Why would you take the harder route to halfway only to then make things easier on big wide roads and negate the chances of those slopes actually being important? Certainly the way Javier Guillén has been behaving of late would indicate that he agrees on this front. For the record though, here is a comparative graph of the two profiles between El Dornajo and Pradollano.

Of course, that cruce at 2384m still isn't even remotely close to the end of the climbing. That road is where the traditional route joins the Collado de las Sabinas road to become the all important road to Pico Veleta, the highest paved road in Europe. Here is a photo of the cruce, from Miguel Baéza and Martin Cerván, who have taken on all these beasts and are tougher than I am as a result.

cfd5d55af91d982f6156c7f3141ea1e6o.jpg


Of course, the existence of this cruce is fantastic news for route designers because it means that designing some incredible routes through the Sierra Nevada is possible; climbing to Pradollano through El Dornajo and Las Sabinas and then being able to descend back to Granada, which allows us to do such brutal combinations as El Purche-Las Sabinas-Collado del Algüacil, or El Dornajo-loop back-Las Sabinas-descend through El Purche-Cumbres Verdes. A descent to finish on Cumbres Verdes would look like this, while another option is to only descend as far as El Dornajo and just climb the second part of the climb again, bringing the super steep stuff closer to the finish.


Bump.

Fantastic write up on Sierra Nevada; plenty of mouth watering possibilities. To reach 3,000 metres altitude in a grand tour would be truly epic.

I enjoyed your 150 climbs that are better than the Alpe d'Huez write up also!
 
The road is paved until shortly after Capileira, where the first mtf of the 2015 Vuelta took place actually, and until the (water) power station in that little Alpujarras village. After that it's a hiking / mountain bike trail. Actually that gravel road is big enough to serve the mountain shelters with Landrovers. So theoretically you'd pave it if not for the nature reserve. Although the other side belongs to that park as well. That's why there's a gate after Hoya de la Mora!

Libertine might ofc correct my if I was wrong.
 
Correct. The road is paved up to 1800m. The link below shows a picture of the point where it forks at 2700m: to the left the path to a mountain shelter and to the right the path to Veleta.

https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/56877765

To me it looks rougher than Finestre. They'd probably need the kind of special purpose tyres, brakes and frames only seen at Roubaix to ride over there.

Then there is this that I posted in the Vuelta rumours thread :D
https://youtu.be/dUGewALlhNA?t=5m54s
 
Jun 11, 2014
304
0
0
Valv.Piti said:
TromleTromle said:
Valv.Piti said:
Whats the fuzz about this climb? Can't really find anything about it - seems pretty hard!
http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/brutal_summit_finish_in_2017_volta_a_catalunya/
Seems like Mont Caro without the last 4 km for me.
But can't confirm!
LS did a guide for the mountain earlier in this thread.

Caro.gif
The article mentions a higher average tho, but maybe it is.
Must be a mistake - the blurry profile show 8,4 km climb to 1000 m.asl - would fit well with the fork in the road.
But they should still take the riders all the way to the top :razz:
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
3. Puerto de la Cubilla (Asturias)
The Spanish Galibier

puertocubilla0gt.jpg


When the 2010 Vuelta route was being developed, rumour-mongers had picked up that there was going to be a new mountaintop finish in Asturias, following climbs of San Lorenzo and Cobertoria. Now, personally I have no problem with Cotobello, it's a nice climb, but I can sympathise with the many fans who were just a tiny bit disappointed when the Cotobello rumour picked up steam. That's because one of the original rumours - which may just have been people putting 2 + 2 together to make 5 - was that the new Asturian summit would be the Puerto de la Cubilla, a sweeping and dramatic climb in the south of the province.

If you travel south from Pola de Lena, that town that has been the centre of many a key Asturian stage, then you travel parallel to the AP-66. At Campomanes, you reach a fork in the road. The Vuelta has traditionally turned left here, which means taking the road up to Brañillín, the Puerto de Pajares, and of course in 2012, to Cuitu Negru. If you turn right, however, it takes you up another winding, challenging mountain pass, only this one does not save its pain for the final 3km.

Cuitu Negru is, from Campomanes, 25km at 5,7%. However, without the additionals, going to Brañillín is 23,3km at 4,7%; what we're doing today is a much tougher climb than the latter, and a better climb for racing than the former.

Cubilla.gif


Counting the climb as all the way from Campomanes, the Puerto de la Cubilla is 28,1km @ 4,6%, however if we ignore the false flat and put our "comienza puerto" sign at Los Pontones, the climb becomes much more evident and the figures become 17,9km @ 6,1%, which help to characterise the difficulty a bit more.

2ce21pi.jpg


There is a reason this climb is known as the Spanish Galibier, and it's not just the stunning vistas. Here is a comparison of the two, with the final 21km of La Cubilla against the 23km of the southern face of the legendary French hors catégorie. This will also hopefully explain a bit more why Puerto de la Cubilla deserves that ESP categorization, as if 1180m vertical was not already enough...
I'm way late to the party, but when doing my own Vuelta i checked out Cubilla. I don't know, why it's compared with Galibier south or why it's ESP. I find this climb closer to another French climb - La Toussuire. According to stage 19 of TdF 2015, La Toussuire basically has the exact same measurements, while being only cat. 1. It was also the same edition. when Glandon south got HC. Interestingly, theoretically Cotobello (10km at 8,4%) is the same, if not slightly harder than Cubilla, and it got cat. 1 in 2010.
profile-19.jpg


Vuelta is very emm... uncertain with their ESP cat. Sometimes arguably ESP climbs (San Lorenzo west, Bales north) have only cat. 1, while Fuente del Chivo (without Palombera) got ESP, while being theoretically easier, than both Cubilla and La Toussuire. Sometimes garage ramps can help boosting a climb in ratings, but Cubilla (acc. to the profile You posted) is realtively regular, with only small parts of 10% near the bottom. I guess if Vuelta will ever finish on Cubilla (which i guess is quite probable), there are higher chances of it getting cat. 1 than ESP.
vuelta14.png
 
(My) justification for Galibier from Briancon (when was it last climbed from the Romanche side lol, only one climb exists over there, RIP Les Deux Alpes) being HC is the altitude. I dunno when it became HC but the section from Lautaret, all above 2000m and around 7% is more like say 9-10% closer to sea level. The roll up the valley to is nothing in itself but enough of a start to get it up to HC overall. Even with Val d'Isere the starting point, Iseran was HC in 2007 which you can again make a case for based on altitude.

Glandon you could perhaps argue it has higher gradients hidden within the average get it to HC, personally not, and La Toussuire definitely not even though two dimensionally it's harder than the Iseran example.

Agreed that ESP are a bit more confusingly allocated than HC but based on being 1000m closer to sea than Galibier I'd argue no, but seeing that photo it is absolutely deserving of the name.

As you can see, these assessments are inherently subjective...
 
This was supposed to be in the Great unknown climbs thread but it may be good enough to land in here.

Next climb i have on offer is in Catalunya in Sierra de Montseny. It's not hard enough to classify for the ESP climbs Vuelta could use thread. It's your typical Spanish "rampas inhumanas" narrow goat track with more than plenty of >15% slopes and some >20% (max 23%) mixed in. The climb starts in Tagamanent in Congost valley thats parallel to the famous Coll Formic climb. It leads to a small etnologic (ethnographic?) parc above the village near a small castle Castell de Tagamanent.
e232763a0e84d70f283e3b709bd5e3e1.jpg

640px-Castell_de_Tagamanent_1.JPG


Now to the meat. I believe the climb is called Collet de la Font de Bellver. It's 7,2km @ 9,1% but that includes small patches of flat/downhill. When it climbs it does at over 15% with multiple instances of over 20% (max 23%). At the top there's a decently sized dirt parking.
tagamanent.PNG

TilXtXx.jpg

tyJ5KBr.jpg


For me the most interesting part of this climb is not its typical Spanish ramps but that the top of it is connected to nearby Coll Formic via a sterrato ridge road on a plateau Pla de la Calma. This road is quite long, almost 10k long! The first half is uphill while the 2nd half is false-flat to slightly downhill. The uphill part is 4,2km @ 6,1% with the first 1,7km @ 8,2%. If we start from the very bottom in Tagamanent then it's 11,4km @ 8% with the first 9km @ 9%! Considering the amount of "rampas inhumanas", over 20% max slopes and last 4,2km on sterrato it could be eligible for the rare and coveted ESP category. The dirt itself is more of a rather typical mountain peak access road like the ones to many Spanish mountaintop windmill parks. It seems to not be that rough. I mean even the streetview car covered it but it should need some pre-race preparations. Interestingly, it seems the 2nd false-flat part seems to be in a better shape.
jw5JOct.jpg

hKBEDpp.jpg

cvlBUgL.jpg


This dirt road connects the climb with Coll Formic. It means you can combine it with other nearby Sierra de Montseny climbs and nearby cities like Vic or Sant-Celoni. If it was like stage 20 or so then it could be mid-stage with a Volta Catalunya special finish in Calella after Coll de Santa-Helena. I may update it with a potential profile when i'll get such a stage working.

Is it possible for Vuelta? I believe the first 7,2km up to the ethnographic park could be but i don't think it will happen for the entire 9km climb. I also don't think it'll be surfaced as it's almost 10km long.
 

TRENDING THREADS