4 Jours de Dunkerque/GP Hauts De France 2022 , 5/3-5/8

[Samu Cuenca]

The gap wasn't big to begin with, but Welsford definitely closed it.

 

[yaco]

I believe it was a racing incident - It does not help that the finish gently curved in the last 30 metres.

 

[search]

hard to say if this deserves a penalty. You could see the crash coming when de Lie went for the hole which wasn't there

 

[Boes]

Stupid move by De Lie but Welsford definitly in the wrong to.

 

[Wvv]

hard to say if this deserves a penalty. You could see the crash coming when de Lie went for the hole which wasn't there

To be honest, the moment De Lie initiates his final kick the 'hole' was still big enough.

 

[Samamba]

How is this a racing incident? Welshford literally gives De Lie a little push there. Doesn't even matter tho, De Lie's season might just be over, as he was still laying on the ground minutes after the stage finished.

 

[armchairclimber]

There was clearly a gap as De Lie was already well into it when Welsford deviated and stuck his arm out. I wonder what someone like Jakobsen thinks.

 

[search]

To be honest, the moment De Lie initiates his final kick the 'hole' was still big enough.

maybe just, yeah, but watching it live, didn't you feel like him going for it will definitely result in a crash?

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Whats all this pink in the graphics for Dunkerque?
Trolling the coming Giro?

The Quatre Jours have a pink jersey for the race leader since at least the 1950s.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

To be honest, the moment De Lie initiates his final kick the 'hole' was still big enough.

It was a matter of centimeters even when he launched, that's always dangerous and especially when the finish is curving. Not too unlikely there would have been a crash even if Welsford hadn't stuck out his elbow, which is still a move that probably should have merited a DSQ as I don't believe that Welsford didn't know McLay was right on the other side of De Lie given that he was overtaking him.

 

[yaco]

Watch the replay closely and you will see that Welsford's arm motion was a reaction to De Lie leaning into Welsford - I know that sprinters are crazy but De Lie will learn more discretion when entering a narrow gap.

 

[Ricco']

If Welsford was named Nacer the outrage would be enourmous.

There is a clear deviation. From having less than a rider interval between Welsford and the divider of the road when De Lie starts to get by his side to have space for more two riders when they collide.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Welsford got relegated after all, so De Kleijn takes the win in Roglic-in-Liège fashion.

Also, can the thread be stickied?

 

[Samamba]

De Lie goes for a small and risky gap but let's stop the victim blaming. It's a super clear deviation from Welsford. Only actual reason why they crash.

Ironic that De Kleijn wins the stage now tho as he rides a kamikaze sprint himself.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I'll watch it later, but clear deviation based on this thread. Happy an American team can benefit from Welsford DQ.

 

[AlfaLum]

De Lie took a lot of risk because the gap was already very tight to begin with and probably to tight to make a move. Welsford clearly deviates a bit from his line, but not that much, sprinting entirely straight is quite hard.

I think all in all it’s a minor mistake from both and this is just a very unfortunate racing incident. Relegation is a bit harsh in my opinion. You can’t really expect every sprinter to sprint in a super straight line.

 

[RedheadDane]

Welsford got relegated after all, so De Kleijn takes the win in Roglic-in-Liège fashion.

Not exactly Roglic-in-Liege. Roglic went past Alaphilippe when Alaphilippe celebrated (too early). The relegation of Alaphilippe was unrelated to him not actually winning.

Yeah @Red Rick! Get to work.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

De Lie took a lot of risk because the gap was already very tight to begin with and probably to tight to make a move. Welsford clearly deviates a bit from his line, but not that much, sprinting entirely straight is quite hard.

I think all in all it’s a minor mistake from both and this is just a very unfortunate racing incident. Relegation is a bit harsh in my opinion. You can’t really expect every sprinter to sprint in a super straight line.

Look at the top left image in Ricco's post. McLay is far enough ahead that Welsford could, should and probably will have known that deviating left would push De Lie into McLay and yet he did so anyway.

There's a case to be made that De Lie should also have been relegated for going into a stupidly tight gap, ultimately contributing to McLay and everyone behind them crashing too, but that fact changes the Welsford relegation from debatable into necessary, imo.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Not exactly Roglic-in-Liege. Roglic went past Alaphilippe when Alaphilippe celebrated (too early). The relegation of Alaphilippe was unrelated to him not actually winning.

Yeah @Red Rick! Get to work.

Hirschi and Pogacar both beat Roglic if Alaphilippe doesn't deviate into them, much like McLay and De Lie beat De Kleijn here if Welsford doesn't deviate into them. So very much like Roglic in Liège, in that it only happened due to a relegatable offence.

 

[AlfaLum]

Look at the top left image in Ricco's post. McLay is far enough ahead that Welsford could, should and probably will have known that deviating left would push De Lie into McLay and yet he did so anyway.

There's a case to be made that De Lie should also have been relegated for going into a stupidly tight gap, ultimately contributing to McLay and everyone behind them crashing too, but that fact changes the Welsford relegation from debatable into necessary, imo.

I disagree partially. Because on the second picture contact has already been made, and so the position that Welsford is in there is not entirely of his own choice anymore. I just think this is one of those cases where some very small errors by two riders riders have resulted into a very unfortunate situation.

 

[tobydawq]

Not exactly Roglic-in-Liege. Roglic went past Alaphilippe when Alaphilippe celebrated (too early). The relegation of Alaphilippe was unrelated to him not actually winning.

Yeah @Red Rick! Get to work.

Maybe he is talking about the 2023 edition?

Why does time have to be so linear with you??

 

[RedheadDane]

Hirschi and Pogacar both beat Roglic if Alaphilippe doesn't deviate into them, much like McLay and De Lie beat De Kleijn here if Welsford doesn't deviate into them. So very much like Roglic in Liège, in that it only happened due to a relegatable offence.

I thought you meant in the sense of the relegation having causing Alaphilippe to not-win. As in a case where a rider crosses the line first, and then gets relegated.


So, errr... is everyone involved in the crash okay(ish)?

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I disagree partially. Because on the second picture contact has already been made, and so the position that Welsford is in there is not entirely of his own choice anymore. I just think this is one of those cases where some very small errors by two riders riders have resulted into a very unfortunate situation.

...but on the second picture, Welsford has already moved left. You don't need to be good at physics to be pretty sure that if De Lie had pushed Welsford he would have gone right instead so his position is very much his own choice there. The contact is due to Welsford's position, not the other way round.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I thought you meant in the sense of the relegation having causing Alaphilippe to not-win. As in a case where a rider crosses the line first, and then gets relegated.


So, errr... is everyone involved in the crash okay(ish)?

Okay, that makes sense.

De Lie has been taken to hospital, not sure about the rest.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521501960003850240

 

[AlfaLum]

...but on the second picture, Welsford has already moved left. You don't need to be good at physics to be pretty sure that if De Lie had pushed Welsford he would have gone right instead so his position is very much his own choice there. The contact is due to Welsford's position, not the other way round.

Once sprinters start making contact the obvious reaction is to lean into the other person a bit in order to stay up and maintaining the balance as a counter to the physics reaction you are writing about. You can try to convince me as much as you like, but I have watched it about 15 times now and I came to the conclusion that both riders have made minor errors here that are bound to happen in cycling.

The craziest thing for me here is that the winner after DSQ (Arvid) probably made the worst offense just before the crash (seen in picture 2 a bit) when he used his body against Tesson to make space. But it is neglected because Tesson doesn’t crash .