59th Itzulia Basque Country (2.UWT) 8 - 13 April

[Lequack]

Some pics:

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

2nd place is the first loser...

Nobody loses better than the second guy. It's a fine line to walk, an art in itself, because if you're not careful, you might win.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Martinez and Fuglsang came at 25seconds.
I'm still not convinced by Schachmann climbing. If they race the last two stages really hard he can lose more than 2 minutes. Even Adam Yates still has a chance.
Right now I think that Ion Izagirre is the favourite.

Surely Izaguirre is favourite to be 3rd?

Surely...

He meant in the point and mountain competitions, obviously.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

Martinez and Fuglsang came at 25seconds.
I'm still not convinced by Schachmann climbing. If they race the last two stages really hard he can lose more than 2 minutes. Even Adam Yates still has a chance.
Right now I think that Ion Izagirre is the favourite.

Surely Izaguirre is favourite to be 3rd?

Surely...

I was joking of course... given the number of times he has finished 3rd in this race. Of course he was favourite to win.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Considering that the front riders didnot make the mistake, the incident comes in the grey area. Partially it is the fault of the rider but he has to take a split second decision so there are mitigating circumstances. So as such they should have let the results stand since all podium ceremonies were carried. Unless a severe case like the Froome/Porte/Mollema crash happens, they should let the results stand and not interfere.

 

[dastott]

Wasn’t it the case that the first 2 or 3 riders in the yellow jersey group (McCarthy I think was one of them) didn’t make that mistake means that it wasn’t the marshals’ fault? Fuglsang has a right to be upset...

 

[PeterB]

Come on, from the video it is clear that the marshall with the flag was literally standing in the correct way. Organizers' not riders' fault. But what that means from the perspective of race rules, I don't know.

 

[Danskebjerge]

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

This. Fuglsang has a right to be upset over this.

 

[PeterB]

Re:

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

Okay, I was curious and looked up the 3-km rule in the UCI rulebook:

In the case of a duly noted incident in the last three kilometres of a road race stage, the
rider or riders affected shall be credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose
company they were riding at the moment of the incident.
...
Is considered as an incident, any event independent from the physical capacity of the
rider (fall, mechanical problem, puncture) and his will of remaining with the riders in
whose company he was riding at the moment of the incident.
...
Decisions related to this article are taken independently by the commissaires’ panel.

This rule is usually intepreted as protecting from crashes as mechanicals, but it is in fact defined in broader terms as an incident during which a rider would otherwise be able and willing to stay with other riders, but for some reason cannot. So you could in my opinion make an argument in Buchmann's favour based on this rule.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re: Re:

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

This rule is usually intepreted as protecting from crashes as mechanicals, but it is in fact defined in broader terms as an incident during which a rider would otherwise be able and willing to stay with other riders, but for some reason cannot. So you could in my opinion make an argument in Buchmann's favour based on this rule.

I see your point. But I don't agree. Did we witness an "event independent from the physical capacity of the
rider (fall, mechanical problem, puncture) and his will of remaining with the riders in
whose company he was riding at the moment of the incident"? I don't think so. He could have gone left - he chose to follow the motorbike and went right. So it was not an "incident".

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

This rule is usually intepreted as protecting from crashes as mechanicals, but it is in fact defined in broader terms as an incident during which a rider would otherwise be able and willing to stay with other riders, but for some reason cannot. So you could in my opinion make an argument in Buchmann's favour based on this rule.

I see your point. But I don't agree. Did we witness an "event independent from the physical capacity of the
rider (fall, mechanical problem, puncture) and his will of remaining with the riders in
whose company he was riding at the moment of the incident"? I don't think so. He could have gone left - he chose to follow the motorbike and went right. So it was not an "incident".

I most certainly think that we did. You can't soberly say that you believe he chose to ride away from the route just for the lulz.

Of course it was in his will to get to the finish line as fast as possible and keep company with Mollema and Landa. The man with the flag stood in a wrong place, and you can't really expect that each and every rider always knows every turn on a stage even if it's their responsibility.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re: Re:

As Fuglsang himself has pointed out - by looking at the rules - it is the responsibility of the rider to follow the disignated route, and not even mistakes made by race marshalls can change that. The UCI rules are very clear about this.

This rule is usually intepreted as protecting from crashes as mechanicals, but it is in fact defined in broader terms as an incident during which a rider would otherwise be able and willing to stay with other riders, but for some reason cannot. So you could in my opinion make an argument in Buchmann's favour based on this rule.

I see your point. But I don't agree. Did we witness an "event independent from the physical capacity of the
rider (fall, mechanical problem, puncture) and his will of remaining with the riders in
whose company he was riding at the moment of the incident"? I don't think so. He could have gone left - he chose to follow the motorbike and went right. So it was not an "incident".

I most certainly think that we did. You can't soberly say that you believe he chose to ride away from the route just for the lulz.

Of course it was in his will to get to the finish line as fast as possible and keep company with Mollema and Landa. The man with the flag stood in a wrong place, and you can't really expect that each and every rider always knows every turn on a stage even if it's their responsibility.

So, if you arrive at an appointment half an hour late because you missed an exit on the motorway - you would say "sorry, there was an incident"?

 

[wirral]

I think this incident highlights once again how ropey and amateurish the UCI protocol and regulations concerning the vehicle deviation before the line. This is certainly not the first time an incident such as this has happened, although it is more common for a vehicle to illegally continue to the line than it is for a rider to go down the vehicle deviation.

How about a standard colour-coded shape-coded sign at this point for every race along with a marshall instead of just a marshall dancing a crazy hopscotch getting vehicles to go one way and riders the other.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am not sure (somebody can check), but I believe the 3 km rule do not apply for these type of stages anyway. So it is a moot point to discuss it here in favor of Buchmann.

I think it was his fault anyway, but that was the decision that the UCI took, so be it. We didn't want marathonists on Mount Ventoux and still got one. So this is the sport that we have.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

I am not sure (somebody can check), but I believe the 3 km rule do not apply for these type of stages anyway. So it is a moot point to discuss it here in favor of Buchmann.

I think it was his fault anyway, but that was the decision that the UCI took, so be it. We didn't want marathonists on Mount Ventoux and still got one. So this is the sport that we have.

If the finish is flat, I think the rule applies.