86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[Devil's Elbow]

There stands an Ineos car actually. If you look at the delineator left of it, that looks like exactly the place where Mäder got off the road doesn't it?

Hopefully I'm just totally wrong on this!

The Ineos car is behind the Bahrain car, and surely way too close to the Bahrain car for the Bahrain car to have gotten there second and parked in front? Cannot imagine whoever was driving the Bahrain car to have bothered to parallel park really precisely right in front of the Ineos car given the circumstances, in any case.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There stands an Ineos car actually. If you look at the delineator left of it, that looks like exactly the place where Mäder got off the road doesn't it?

Hopefully I'm just totally wrong on this!

I wouldn't go down the road to speculate on this. You can't see if the car is on the road or exactly how it is situated in the corner. It is possible this car pulled over after both crashes.

 

[Netserk]

From Eurosport site also and I don't even find the highlights there.

To be fair, I don't get Eurosport search function as it's very difficult to search for on demand races (specially those that happened more than a week ago), but I think it's an exaggerated reaction as yesterday's footage doesn't show or shed any light whatsoever into the unfortunate events that happened or are in any way disrespectful to Gino's memory (at least for me). If the fatal crash had happened while being recorded for live cameras, sure, deleting that part or even the whole stage was reasonable, but I can't understand this line of thinking.

Agreed, I too find such prudery alien.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Looking at it, it seems quite feasible that a rider would just overshoot that corner.

Unless I am totally misreading the situation, the accident was that Mader (and Sheffield before him) had was to "undershoot" the bend: they went off on the inside of the bend. Much more unusual, and not something where padding is an issue. I wonder whether that right hand margin (the darker tarmac) is more steeply cambered than the main road, and sopitches riders towards the inside.

 

[search]

There stands an Ineos car actually. If you look at the delineator left of it, that looks like exactly the place where Mäder got off the road doesn't it?

not with bikes on the roof, though, as I said?! That's not a car which would follow a rider then, but used to reach the feeding zone and so on. I think it must have arrived much later on.

 

[Izzyeviel]

There stands an Ineos car actually. If you look at the delineator left of it, that looks like exactly the place where Mäder got off the road doesn't it?

Hopefully I'm just totally wrong on this!

it looks like an ineos car, but that was long after they both crashed. & it seems to be parked on the right hand side of the road which would mean he would'nt have need to swerve around it even if it was there before he arrived. Its all just speculation at this stage. They're investigating it so we just oughta wait for more information.

 

[Bonimenier]

Absolutely tragic. RIP Gino.

 

[staubsauger]

The Ineos car is behind the Bahrain car, and surely way too close to the Bahrain car for the Bahrain car to have gotten there second and parked in front? Cannot imagine whoever was driving the Bahrain car to have bothered to parallel park really precisely right in front of the Ineos car given the circumstances, in any case.

Is that Bahrain car 1, following Bilbao & Tiberi? If so maybe they stopped, because Sheffields crash looked so scary according to Skjelmose & Evenepoel.

Why are there 2 Bahrain cars otherwise? The 2nd Bahrain car doesn't have bikes either, so can't be.

Just too much speed then.

 

[Red Rick]

One thing, dont they generally use wider tires now than before?

 

[RedheadDane]

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Roland Thalmann, exactly!

Yes… What is to think of Thalmann‘s quote when he said he saw two destroyed bikes at the side of the road?

I assumed Sheffield and Mäder fell down the ravine together with their bikes.

Maybe someone brought the bikes back, uphill to the road? Thalmann was ca. 9 minutes behind the crashes.

And: is it possible that Mäder fell down this 3 or 4 meter high vertical stone wall, above the water?

Strange… Normally this 45 degree grass/stone slope should have stopped Mäder‘s fall. It seems at least to have stopped Sheffield‘s fall…

 

[Devil's Elbow]

And: is it possible that Mäder fell down this 3 or 4 meter high vertical stone wall, above the water?

That is very likely what has happened because it's the only way he would have ended up in the streambed. The positioning of the cones in the picture posted by Search yesterday suggests the same thing.

Strange… Normally this 45 degree grass/stone slope should have stopped Mäder‘s fall. It seems at least to have stopped Sheffield‘s fall…

It didn't break Sheffield's fall either, he overshot the curve by a smaller margin, therefore left the road a few metres later and at a marginally narrower angle which thankfully must have meant he overshot that wall too, then came to a stop almost immediately after that because the slope ended there. Keep in mind both must still have been carrying a lot of speed when they missed the curve and started falling, that makes it a lot harder to come to a stop when the slope is still downhill.

 

[ManicJack]

It didn't break Sheffield's fall either, he overshot the curve by a smaller margin, therefore left the road a few metres later and at a marginally narrower angle which thankfully must have meant he overshot that wall too, then came to a stop almost immediately after that because the slope ended there.

Were you there?

 

[Boehmand]

Crazy how people just go off on all kinds of theories on why it happened, with absolutely no information to go by

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Were you there?

Based on the information we have, it's possible to reconstruct with a reasonable degree of certainty much of what happened. If Sheffield had fallen down the same wall he would not have walked (literally) away with 'only' a concussion and bruises, therefore he cannot have fallen down that wall, and he was receiving treatment at the far side of the wall (as seen from the curve) so must have ended up at that side of it.

 

[ManicJack]

Based on the information we have,

AKA, your imagination. Let it go. A man lost his life for God's sake.

 

[Izzyeviel]

AKA, your imagination. Let it go. A man lost his life for God's sake.

not really. We have pictures of the police doing their investigation and marking out on the road the direction of travel that the riders took.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

with abolutely no information to go by

There are some information available, like we have is the two lines in the gravel showing where they flew out (not knowing which is which of course) and the photos showing where the treatment took place/where Sheffield was sitting.

 

[Boehmand]

There are some information available, like we have is the two lines in the gravel showing where they flew out (not knowing which is which of course) and the photos showing where the treatment took place/where Sheffield was sitting.

Ok Clouseau

 

[ManicJack]

not really. We have pictures of the police doing their investigation and marking out on the road the direction of travel that the riders took.

Which tells you nothing other than the direction of travel. Speculate away. I hope you send your report to the proper authorities. I'm sure they are eagerly awaiting it.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Ok Clouseau

No need to ridicule me for correcting you that there isn’t “absolutely no information available”.
I didn’t raise any opinion, I didn’t suggest anything I didn’t speculate anything.
I just stated some facts about what is available.

 

[theyoungest]

There stands an Ineos car actually. If you look at the delineator left of it, that looks like exactly the place where Mäder got off the road doesn't it?

Hopefully I'm just totally wrong on this!

Then just say nothing. What's the point of speculating. Nobody wanted this to happen, nobody is at fault. Jesus.

 

[DNP-Old]

Maybe this isn't the time to do so, but if they can, so can I. I am getting really annoyed with these media clowns using Mader's death to try and drive home some non-existent point about safety, mainly being Marijn de Vries. The boy isn't even in the ground, but we already gotta start milking him, sad.

 

[search]

That is very likely what has happened because it's the only way he would have ended up in the streambed. The positioning of the cones in the picture posted by Search yesterday suggests the same thing.

It didn't break Sheffield's fall either, he overshot the curve by a smaller margin, therefore left the road a few metres later and at a marginally narrower angle which thankfully must have meant he overshot that wall too, then came to a stop almost immediately after that because the slope ended there. Keep in mind both must still have been carrying a lot of speed when they missed the curve and started falling, that makes it a lot harder to come to a stop when the slope is still downhill.

there are two interviews with the race doctor available in Swiss media (one on Blick's website, one during SRF's coverage today), and he said that both riders were located inside the streambed. He also mentions that after resuscitation they checked Mäder (as well as possible) for broken bones before his transport to the clinic, and weren't able to locate any obvious injuries. So he assumes that he suffered from a traumatic brain injury. So in the end, to me it sounds like one rider was probably just more lucky than the other.

According to him, they were stopped by a commissaire and a spectator, btw, so that should also exclude that any team car was present already at this point.

 

[SHAD0W93]

there are two interviews with the race doctor available in Swiss media (one on Blick's website, one during SRF's coverage today), and he said that both riders were located inside the streambed. He also mentions that after resuscitation they checked Mäder (as well as possible) for broken bones before his transport to the clinic, and weren't able to locate any obvious injuries. So he assumes that he suffered from a traumatic brain injury. So in the end, to me it sounds like one rider was probably just more lucky than the other.

According to him, they were stopped by a commissaire and a spectator, btw, so that should also exclude that any team car was present already at this point.

Oh no, so who knows how long they were down there and CPR needs to be started within 7-10 seconds




Since it hasn’t been done I want to applaud the race and team doctors along with emergency services and anyone else that helped. It’s not very often they’d have a tragedy like this and they performed to the best of their ability for both riders. Nor is it easy doing CPR on the ground.