86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[gunara]

So member of the big six is defeated at last

 

[JosefK]

OK, enough about these young wizards. Regarding grizzled veterans, Wout looked okay, I think. Will be stronger in a few weeks.

 

[Oldermanish]

These younger guys were great this week. On to the 3 week test!

 

[Valv.Piti]

You know, without Gino's accident this would have been remembered as an absolutely great edition of the TdS. Instead there will only ever be one thing I'll be able to think of when it comes to this race. I still cannot believe what happened.

Fair.

What happened, happened. I still very much enjoyed the race outside of that, but it might be very hard for a lot of people to think about anything else than Gino's death.

 

[RedheadDane]

OK, enough about these young wizards. Regarding grizzled veterans, Wout looked okay, I think. Will be stronger in a few weeks.

Wout - at 28 - is a grizzled veteran? Do you want to make me feel old?

 

[staubsauger]

Good they showed Gall at least once or twice so we know he was actually wearing a skinsuit rather than a carapace like a turtle!

 

[Faserr]

Was Gall sick? He can't be that slow with his climbing watts on a TT bike. Or he can't push Watts on the TT bike.

 

[Escarabajo]

So member of the big six is defeated at last

There are 8 now. 7 if we take Wout out!

 

[Boehmand]

There are 8 now. 7 if we take Wout out!

In reality it's "the big 1"

Pogacar is the only one, who does great both in classics and GC at GTs.

Evenepoel is getting there (and may make it), but is yet to prove himself against the best in a GT.

 

[VeloMaster]

Which only makes sense. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a climber profits more from a hilly TT than a rider who is great on a flat TT too. I don't think Evenepoel is necessarily "worse" at this kind of effort, but he has less of an advantage over other gc riders.

As we have seen today, Remco can exploit his superior power-to-cda on flats, but on a hill such as this one it's all about power-to-weight. I am not surprised by the outcome, although Remco may not be at "top' form.

 

[Rackham]

Was Gall sick? He can't be that slow with his climbing watts on a TT bike. Or he can't push Watts on the TT bike.

In his defense it looks like AG2R still have that Romain Bardet era performance handicap in ITT's.

Gall might be 'bad' in time trials but I think we'd need to see him in a better team with better equipment before a final judgement (although if someone has evidence of a top ITT performance from an AG2R rider in recent years, I'll stand corrected).

 

[QueenStagiaire]

By the way, the men and women doing the same course is an interesting opportunity to compare their speeds. Marlen Reusser won today, only losing 51 seconds to Felix Gall, which would be good enough for 104th place out of 110. Demi Vollering and Elisa Longo Borghini were good enough for 106th and 107th. Additionally, Brodie Chapman, Amber Kraak and Anna Kiesenhofer were quicker than Lorrenzo Manzin. In total, 43 women would have made the men‘s time cut, although more probably could have if it was relevant to the women‘s race. I just found this pretty interesting.

 

[Boehmand]

As we have seen today, Remco can exploit his superior power-to-cda on flats, but on a hill such as this one it's all about power-to-weight. I am not surprised by the outcome, although Remco may not be at "top' form.

In fairness we have to remember, that Evenepoel is coming off a condition peak (and was ill for a spell), while Ayuso and Skjelmose are in the latter stages of build up, so we cannot compare them on even terms.

Evenepoel is not supposed to hit his next peak until end of July, and would not have taken part in TDS, if he had not had to exit the Giro.

 

[KOM]

By the way, the men and women doing the same course is an interesting opportunity to compare their speeds. Marlen Reusser won today, only losing 51 seconds to Felix Gall, which would be good enough for 104th place out of 110. Demi Vollering and Elisa Longo Borghini were good enough for 106th and 107th. Additionally, Brodie Chapman, Amber Kraak and Anna Kiesenhofer were quicker than Lorrenzo Manzin. In total, 43 women would have made the men‘s time cut, although more probably could have if it was relevant to the women‘s race. I just found this pretty interesting.

Really not that interesting cause those women were riding for the win, while id strongly assume anyone finishing 80 and below didnt try at all in the mens TT

 

[Boehmand]

Really not that interesting cause those women were riding for the win, while id strongly assume anyone finishing 80 and below didnt try at all in the mens TT

Reusser was 12 % slower than Ayuso, which is probably a pretty fair measurement of the differences in strength between male and female riders.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

One of the sad things about cycling these years is that every time one of the usual suspects loses, people say it's because they're out of shape.

I dont think that needs to take anything from the winners. Ayoso was phenomenal today, Skjelmose was very impressive the whole week.

Evenepoel was underwhelming the whole week except that stuff yesterday that was a very special “stage”.

You can only beat those you are competing against, and Skjelmose and Ayoso was clearly better than Evenepoel this week.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Youngest WT podium ever?

 

[Lequack]

So member of the big six is defeated at last

Yes, Felix Gall unfortunately not winning TdS.

 

[RedheadDane]

Movistar had a special cheer squad!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670424532660768768

 

[Lequack]

The only question that remains is, could Roglic have beaten Skjelmose?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well done, Skjelmose. Superior pacing today.

Oh, so you DO understand he was faster on the climb because he paced his TT that way, because from another post you made, it looked like you didn't fully understand the dynamics at play in a TT. I'm relieved to read it.

And to answer another question of yours, i don't think Evenepoel is the moral winner. It's quite clear who the moral winner is: Netserk.

 

[Riek s]

I think the moral winner is Ayuso (even though he didn't win GC). Starting of rather poorly. Then followed it up with a fantastic 'raid' in the queen stage and his best TT ever (I know some people argue his TT in romandie was better).
I think this proves he is in back in the shape where he was expected to be after last year vuelta. Even made progress in the TT (just like the whole UAE team for that matter). I think winning against Evenepoel/WVA in this TT can give him great confidence for his next goals.

The take away for Remco is that he knows where he is at. Maybe enough to win NC TT and to the drawingboard for this next goals. (Finally decide if he will prepare with Vuelta or not, since that will drive his preparation/race weight). I hope he got confirmation his body is over Covid and that he doesn't have long lasting consequences.

Skjelmoose did a great job winning the TDS, was rather unexpected. He also did a very good TT and rode extremely calculated.. letting Gall go, letting Ayuso go,..

In terms of TDS, 2 stages were not really ridden (or at least skjelmoose/Ayuso didn't ride them). So think like a previous poster said, this TDS will rememberd by its tragedy. (That and in in the future statistics)

 

[Boehmand]

"Moral winner"?

 

[Landeirovic]

what I predicted yesterday. Evenepoel will take time in the 1st 16km on Skjelmose and Ayuso but in the last 9km he will lose time uphill and on the descent. There was one "@Logic is your friend" here who took it to the ridiculous and even claimed that I don't think Remco is a climber... Too bad

 

[Riek s]

what I predicted yesterday. Evenepoel will take time in the 1st 16km on Skjelmose and Ayuso but in the last 9km he will lose time uphill and on the descent. There was one "@Logic is your friend" here who took it to the ridiculous and even claimed that I don't think Remco is a climber... Too bad

I don't think many people would have assumed Ayuso would have been faster than Remco and that even Skjelmoose would only loose 1second...

For example Skjelmoose saved his power for the last part and gained 13seconds on Ayuso on the climb+ descend? Was that also something you expected?