A Theory

[Alpe d'Huez]

I have no ability to ban members or IP addresses (that I know of anyway), only give warnings and "infractions".

I am not a net wizard, but can get my way around, and looked into IP addresses on here. I am not completely certain how proxy addresses work, but believe that Mac addresses are stored into the hardware so no duplicate mac addresses exist, so there's no way to change it (someone can correct me if i am wrong). I also believe there are ways one can reset their address, but could be wrong here.

So here is what we have going on here, understand this mess:

Naglas Hombre, Rex Hunter, Amsterhammer, Phantom Menace, and Robert Merville are/were not using the same IP. Not even close.

Ban Pro Cycling and British Pro Cycling (and some of the other names of the same poster) all had IP addresses with the first three sets of numbers almost always similar, with the last three digits often switching out. Sometimes the other numbers would switch out as well, but it was fairly consistent. If someone can furnish me with all of this person's assumed screen names, I can match those as well.

I should now note that the poster known as Rex Hunter has IP numbers that fit this same pattern very closely as BPC (etc.), with several of the numbers the same in many, though not all, of his posts.

Presuming he's from England, I tried checking it against a few other posters from that country, and found that they do not closely match. So it's not a regional issue.

So, if there's someone on here that would like to clarify how proxys and IP numbers work, I'm sure we'd all like to learn and have this cleared up, including Rex.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well, there's been a whole lot of posting, since I last visited, yesterday am, but very little has been said.
Not sure I agree with Dim's observation, as you fight fire with fire.
Bullying? well maybe, but that is an effect of the fact that a very small minority of individuals and their various sockpuppets fail to engage in proper dialogue.
Ask them a serious question, or request an evidentiary link to their claims and all you get avoidance and deliberate confusion.

I think many of us have received immature pms from these individuals. So, they may like to play the victims in open forum threads, but behind the scenes, they continue to goad and ridicule.
These tactics they understand and therefore respond to, more effectively.
These tactics have also created this lads clique-like situation.

Probably the best way to improve the situation, is to use the mental ignore button and post only when able to stay on topic.

So sayeth a post totally off topic.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

I have no ability to ban members or IP addresses (that I know of anyway), only give warnings and "infractions".

I am not a net wizard, but can get my way around, and looked into IP addresses on here. I am not completely certain how proxy addresses work, but believe that Mac addresses are stored into the hardware so no duplicate mac addresses exist, so there's no way to change it (someone can correct me if i am wrong). I also believe there are ways one can reset their address, but could be wrong here.

So here is what we have going on here, understand this mess:

Naglas Hombre, Rex Hunter, Amsterhammer, Phantom Menace, and Robert Merville are/were not using the same IP. Not even close.

Ban Pro Cycling and British Pro Cycling (and some of the other names of the same poster) all had IP addresses with the first three sets of numbers almost always similar, with the last three digits often switching out. Sometimes the other numbers would switch out as well, but it was fairly consistent. If someone can furnish me with all of this person's assumed screen names, I can match those as well.

I should now note that the poster known as Rex Hunter has IP numbers that fit this same pattern very closely as BPC (etc.), with several of the numbers the same in many, though not all, of his posts.

Presuming he's from England, I tried checking it against a few other posters from that country, and found that they do not closely match. So it's not a regional issue.

So, if there's someone on here that would like to clarify how proxys and IP numbers work, I'm sure we'd all like to learn and have this cleared up, including Rex.

There are ways to sp00f Mac addresses.

You can see where an IP originates by using lookup tools like: http://whois.domaintools.com/

This will of course not show the real location if the IP is sp00fed. (have to use 00 as p.o.o.f. gets turned into nice little stars)

 

[Ferminal]

I have no ability to ban members or IP addresses (that I know of anyway), only give warnings and "infractions".

I am not a net wizard, but can get my way around, and looked into IP addresses on here. I am not completely certain how proxy addresses work, but believe that Mac addresses are stored into the hardware so no duplicate mac addresses exist, so there's no way to change it (someone can correct me if i am wrong). I also believe there are ways one can reset their address, but could be wrong here.

So here is what we have going on here, understand this mess:

Naglas Hombre, Rex Hunter, Amsterhammer, Phantom Menace, and Robert Merville are/were not using the same IP. Not even close.

Ban Pro Cycling and British Pro Cycling (and some of the other names of the same poster) all had IP addresses with the first three sets of numbers almost always similar, with the last three digits often switching out. Sometimes the other numbers would switch out as well, but it was fairly consistent. If someone can furnish me with all of this person's assumed screen names, I can match those as well.

I should now note that the poster known as Rex Hunter has IP numbers that fit this same pattern very closely as BPC (etc.), with several of the numbers the same in many, though not all, of his posts.

Presuming he's from England, I tried checking it against a few other posters from that country, and found that they do not closely match. So it's not a regional issue.

So, if there's someone on here that would like to clarify how proxys and IP numbers work, I'm sure we'd all like to learn and have this cleared up, including Rex.

Alpe,

You can use a tool like this - (Edit: Rasmussen already linked to one)

http://ws.arin.net/whois/

To "resolve" the IP, which will tell you whom the IP belongs to (internet providers own lots of IPs). Internet providers own thousands of IPs for their customers and will either give one customer one IP for the whole time (known as a static IP) or they will simply rotate their bank of IPs around all their customers ever 24 hours or so (known as a dynamic IP). If the first three sections of an IP are the same, it's 99% likely that they belong to the same person (or at least a person with the same provider), you can use resolve tools to tell you this.

A proxy IP is what people use if they don't want to use the IP given to them by their ISP. Proxy IPs are stored in lists by websites/programs whose main function is to provide millions of different "free" IP addresses. There are some "legitimate" reasons for using a proxy IP in order to access content which may be blocked in a certain country.

Now in terms of forum trolls, if they get banned and keep getting banned because it's obvious who they are, they might like to start using proxy IPs. It's easy to tell if someone is using a proxy IP because their different IPs will resolve to completely different hosts (instead of the same provider).

It sounds to me that our good friend simply has a dynamic IP provided to him and is yet to reach the phase of using proxies. Don't forget that people might have more than one provider as they may access the forums at home, work and on their phone.

 

[Anonymous]

Dim, If I have been rude to you I apologize. It was not my intent

nah.. youve not been rude to me...

to other replies...

i do actually spend a fair amount of time in the clinic, i just dont post as much mainly due to not being as well informed as many of the more regular posters, so not much of what i would have to say would contribute, so i tend to shut up..

as for the bullying, i think there is a fair bit, although to be fair, im always the last to know who has multiple names and logons, i dont pay enough attention to all that so the bullying may be aimed at them (although to be honest, if someone is being a troll then several members sensibly complaining to the mods about that person, is probably better than people just flooding the place with fail pictures, and abuse.. kind of reduces them to the same, or possibly even a lower level.)

But no race radio, you escaped my mild tirade, it was more a few slightly newer (or more infrequent poster) members i was referring to.. the old hands who have been here forever i can cope with

 

[sars1981]

It sounds to me that our good friend simply has a dynamic IP

Yeah he's definitely got a dynamic ip.

It's tricky to ban a dynamic ip cause, well, it keeps changing. The only way you can do it is ban the entire range (but im pretty sure forums have this option?). The first two numbers of their ip will never change, so you can ban any ip starting with those numbers. But then you run the risk of banning others who have that ip range as well ("collateral banning"). I've been told that the risk of that is very small but im not too sure myself.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah he's definitely got a dynamic ip.

It's tricky to ban a dynamic ip cause, well, it keeps changing. The only way you can do it is ban the entire range (but im pretty sure forums have this option?). The first two numbers of their ip will never change, so you can ban any ip starting with those numbers. But then you run the risk of banning others who have that ip range as well ("collateral banning"). I've been told that the risk of that is very small but im not too sure myself.

it happens.. ive ended up banned before for being on the same isp as another person.. its unlikely, but it does happen..
its so easy to bypass ip banning anyway

 

[Ferminal]

Yeah he's definitely got a dynamic ip.

It's tricky to ban a dynamic ip cause, well, it keeps changing. The only way you can do it is ban the entire range (but im pretty sure forums have this option?). The first two numbers of their ip will never change, so you can ban any ip starting with those numbers. But then you run the risk of banning others who have that ip range as well ("collateral banning"). I've been told that the risk of that is very small but im not too sure myself.

Yeh you can IP ban ranges e.g. "235.136.73.x" where the x means that any IP with the first three segments will get banned, regardless of what the final number is.

IP banning is only needed though when people become an epidemic, you don't really need to use an IP ban if someone is only making one account a week. Easier and less risk just banning the accounts.

 

[Rex Hunter]

dimspace does a decent post pointing out the gang bullying that often goes on in this forum, and what happens? There is a couple of pages of debate below it on how to ban people that the regulars don't like.

I don't think you quite got his point.

At least Alpe d'Huez has confirmed that I have never had any sock puppets. We can finally put that one to bed once and for all.

 

[Ferminal]

dimspace does a decent post pointing out the gang bullying that often goes on in this forum, and what happens? There is a couple of pages of debate below it on how to ban people that the regulars don't like.

I don't think you quite got his point.

At least Alpe d'Huez has confirmed that I have never had any sock puppets. We can finally put that one to bed once and for all.

Well I was under the illusion that any normal forum would keep people it bans, banned, no matter what profile they register under.

If you read some of the previous threads you will understand that there has been one person who has created many accounts and it has often taken some time (weeks) for them to be banned again. It also seemed that every new account was a "clean slate" where this individual had to re-offend and ruin threads to the same degree each time.

Luckily this person isn't you, although you must share the same ISP with this person if what Alpe says is true, small world eh? What Alpe revealed probably confirmed people's suspicions so I'm not sure why you insist on twisting words (this certain banned person was good at that too?)

Obviously the people at CN might not be the most expert on forum moderation as cycling is their thing, not the internet, so I am glad to offer help where I can. Considering this is a thread with a completely false story, it's as good a thread as any to go off-topic in.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Well I was under the illusion that any normal forum would keep people it bans, banned, no matter what profile they register under.

If you read some of the previous threads you will understand that there has been one person who has created many accounts and it has often taken some time (weeks) for them to be banned again. It also seemed that every new account was a "clean slate" where this individual had to re-offend and ruin threads to the same degree each time.

Luckily this person isn't you, although you must share the same ISP with this person if what Alpe says is true, small world eh? What Alpe revealed probably confirmed people's suspicions so I'm not sure why you insist on twisting words (this certain banned person was good at that too?)

Obviously the people at CN might not be the most expert on forum moderation as cycling is their thing, not the internet, so I am glad to offer help where I can. Considering this is a thread with a completely false story, it's as good a thread as any to go off-topic in.

On the bold part - this is what bothers me about the CN forum. Sometimes it is obvious that it is the same poster, but they can't be quickly re-banned. It's kind of ridiculous when the person uses very similar screennames, but are allowed to go on as if they are a new person.

I could do without all the FAIL pictures in reply to trolls. Even though some of the pix are funny, it just enables the whole goal of derailing the thread.

/off topic post

 

[Rex Hunter]

Well I was under the illusion that any normal forum would keep people it bans, banned, no matter what profile they register under.

If you read some of the previous threads you will understand that there has been one person who has created many accounts and it has often taken some time (weeks) for them to be banned again. It also seemed that every new account was a "clean slate" where this individual had to re-offend and ruin threads to the same degree each time.

Luckily this person isn't you, although you must share the same ISP with this person if what Alpe says is true, small world eh? What Alpe revealed probably confirmed people's suspicions so I'm not sure why you insist on twisting words (this certain banned person was good at that too?)

Obviously the people at CN might not be the most expert on forum moderation as cycling is their thing, not the internet, so I am glad to offer help where I can. Considering this is a thread with a completely false story, it's as good a thread as any to go off-topic in.

No you're still not getting it. dimspace highlighted how the same gang of a**holes, as he put it, like to pick on people they disagree with and use abuse instead of argument. They also try to make out people who don't agree are all the same person. Instead of trying to help these gang of bullies with their mission to silence people by pretending they are trolling and disrupting threads, without producing any evidence, you should help people like myself explain the reality of the situation to the mods - whose main interest is cycling so are easily bamboozled when a gang of people tell them they have to ban someone.

Authoritarian censorship and smears is not the way forward.

 

[Rex Hunter]

On the bold part - this is what bothers me about the CN forum. Sometimes it is obvious that it is the same poster, but they can't be quickly re-banned. It's kind of ridiculous when the person uses very similar screennames, but are allowed to go on as if they are a new person.

But it's not always obvious at all. I get accused of being ten different people a day, none of it true. If the mods instincts are as bad as the people who do this then that's innocent people facing the chop all the time.

I could do without all the FAIL pictures in reply to trolls. Even though some of the pix are funny, it just enables the whole goal of derailing the thread.

Agreed. It's an irony that the very people that complain about disruption do more to disrupt threads than anybody else. But that's hardly news.

 

[Rex Hunter]

On the IP business. My IP is part of a block for my regional area. So if you banned my IP - which has happened before - then you will also block anyone who has the same internet service provider in the south east of England. Given I use the biggest internet service provider in this part of the world that's probably a few million people that won't be able to access CN. But I'd be okay because I can change my ip at the flick of a switch, so to speak. Only innocent people will get hurt, again.

There has to be a better way.

 

[Race Radio]

On the IP business. My IP is part of a block for my regional area. So if you banned my IP - which has happened before - then you will also block anyone who has the same internet service provider in the south east of England. Given I use the biggest internet service provider in this part of the world that's probably a few million people that won't be able to access CN. But I'd be okay because I can change my ip at the flick of a switch, so to speak. Only innocent people will get hurt, again.

There has to be a better way.

Once again you lie, lie, lie.

If your IP address is banned only you will be effected, not millions. Also the reason people accuse you of being 10 different people is because you have had multiple user names over the last few months. Getting banned many times and changing your username each time.

The best solution is you take your crazy games someplace else.

 

[Rex Hunter]

Once again you lie, lie, lie.

If your IP address is banned only you will be effected, not millions.

I thought you had me on ignore after I answered all your smears? Notice how he calls something a "lie, lie, lie" that is in fact true, true, true.

If ones service provider uses regional IP blocks then I'm afraid it will block up to millions of other people. The other IT experts here can confirm this if they want to. It's no skin off my nose.

Also the reason people accuse you of being 10 different people is because you have had multiple user names over the last few months. Getting banned many times and changing your username each time.

But never at the same time. I think you believe i'm the OP in this thread, don't you? You have acceptionally poor judgement. Imagine if the person doing the banning was as paronaid as you?

 

[Ferminal]

On the IP business. My IP is part of a block for my regional area. So if you banned my IP - which has happened before - then you will also block anyone who has the same internet service provider in the south east of England. Given I use the biggest internet service provider in this part of the world that's probably a few million people that won't be able to access CN. But I'd be okay because I can change my ip at the flick of a switch, so to speak. Only innocent people will get hurt, again.

There has to be a better way.

If you read my posts you would realise that it's only necessary to ban IP ranges in extreme cases where someone makes hundreds of accounts daily. Our serial offender friend doesn't strike me as that person, nor do you. They could simply spend 60seconds to ban an account which might pop up every day or so without the hassle of IP bans.

 

[Race Radio]

I thought you had me on ignore after I answered all your smears? Notice how he calls something a "lie, lie, lie" that is in fact true, true, true.

If ones service provider uses regional IP blocks then I'm afraid it will block up to millions of other people. The other IT experts here can confirm this if they want to. It's no skin off my nose.



But never at the same time. I think you believe i'm the OP in this thread, don't you? You have acceptionally poor judgement. Imagine if the person doing the banning was as paronaid as you?

There is a difference from blocking a /24 and blocking a single ip. But nice smoke screen

The reason people believe you are 10 different people is because you have been Arbiter/BanProCyclinng/BritishProcycling/Sproket1/Max Power etc. etc. etc.

 

[BroDeal]

So here is what we have going on here, understand this mess:

Naglas Hombre, Rex Hunter, Amsterhammer, Phantom Menace, and Robert Merville are/were not using the same IP. Not even close.

Ban Pro Cycling and British Pro Cycling (and some of the other names of the same poster) all had IP addresses with the first three sets of numbers almost always similar, with the last three digits often switching out. Sometimes the other numbers would switch out as well, but it was fairly consistent. If someone can furnish me with all of this person's assumed screen names, I can match those as well.

I should now note that the poster known as Rex Hunter has IP numbers that fit this same pattern very closely as BPC (etc.), with several of the numbers the same in many, though not all, of his posts.

Presuming he's from England, I tried checking it against a few other posters from that country, and found that they do not closely match. So it's not a regional issue.

You should check Naglas Hombre against Oncearunner, HombredeSubaru, quarterpounder, and a couple others that I cannot recall right now.

Rex Hunter should be checked against Arbiter, Sprocket01, Ban Pro Cycling, etc.

Since vBulletin is a common piece of forum software, I would think there would be tools that could check all IPs of all recent posts and spit out sets of users that have the same IP. If it is not built in then perhaps there is something the admin can run against the database. This may be something where you need an admin who knows what he is doing and has the time to do proper maintenance. There should be a general policy that forbids people from owning multiple accounts. You have to deal with NAT boxes and such; that is an issue that again requires proper maintenance, e.g. when two accounts are found to post from the same IP an explanation has to be requested from the account owners.

 

[Wallace]

No you're still not getting it. dimspace highlighted how the same gang of a**holes, as he put it, like to pick on people they disagree with and use abuse instead of argument. They also try to make out people who don't agree are all the same person. Instead of trying to help these gang of bullies with their mission to silence people by pretending they are trolling and disrupting threads, without producing any evidence, you should help people like myself explain the reality of the situation to the mods - whose main interest is cycling so are easily bamboozled when a gang of people tell them they have to ban someone.

Authoritarian censorship and smears is not the way forward.

After a quick perusal of this thread, I'd argue that all that's happened here is a number of people of at least average intelligence have treated your completely imbecilic thesis with all the respect it deserves. That looks like the complete story to me. If someone who is presumably of adult age starts a thread with a brainless idea, it can be reasonably expected that people who care about the forum on which its posted will speak up to point out how brainless it is--and then go to the logical next step, which is to ask why someone went through all the trouble to post such stupidity (I don't mean this in a critical sense, your thesis is, objectively, stupid)--and continually post, to defend their stupidity.

Also: the fail pictures were hilarious.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Keep it up T Rex. A shed load of self-indulgent, whining posts, without one iota of cycling debate.
A pointless thread, in its inception. Now, just a finger pointing exercise.
Should mean you are in for another IP shift, pretty soon.
Talking of which, if you want to find a bunch of "A" holes, then look no further than Hombre's username variations on that theme.

 

[Rex Hunter]

There is a difference from blocking a /24 and blocking a single ip. But nice smoke screen

No, my IP is part of a block of IPs.

The reason people believe you are 10 different people is because you have been Arbiter/BanProCyclinng/BritishProcycling/Sproket1/Max Power etc. etc. etc.

But you claim I have sock puppets. Are you lying on purpose when you do that?

 

[Rex Hunter]

Keep it up T Rex. A shed load of self-indulgent, whining posts, without one iota of cycling debate.

Why are you blaming me? I'm not the one who started the debate on IP addresses in this thread. There was a couple of pages of it before I turned up. It's classic blame Rex for other people's whining.

It's other people who are whining about "trolls". I agree they should grow a thick skin and stop all this nonsense.

 

[Rex Hunter]

After a quick perusal of this thread, I'd argue that all that's happened here is a number of people of at least average intelligence have treated your completely imbecilic thesis with all the respect it deserves.

What is my thesis? This is not my thread.

Also: the fail pictures were hilarious.

Fine, but don't moan about trolling then.

 

[Rex Hunter]

my main IP address is banned from way back during the beginning of the forum

Why did you come back after you were IP banned? Doesn't this somewhat undercut your position in this thread?

The hypocrisy of some of you people is mind blowing sometimes. It's so blatant.