A Tough Situation for the Giro

[luckyboy]

I think I'm missing some part of this conversation. When was AC going to attack? And who is Fischer? Sorry, just curious

I think AC was going to follow Millar, but Murilo Fischer (Garmin-Cervelo Brazilian National Champion) shouted at him not to go.

https://twitter.com/#!/MuriloFischerMF/status/67610121794109440

 

[The_Z_man]

I think I'm missing some part of this conversation. When was AC going to attack? And who is Fischer? Sorry, just curious

I can't speak to whether or not AC was going to attack, but Maurilo Fischer is the Brazillian road champ who rides for Garmin-Cervelo.

 

[roundabout]

I didn't watch the stage (for which I'm grateful now) but as far as I've read Contador wanted to follow Millar and Fischer who rides for Garmin told him not to do it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I know risks are part of the game.
I realize that this probably was the freakish accident that sometimes happen

But still:
It seems to me that the giro route is often made with more focus on crazy randomness than rider safety. And it seems to be a good recipe. IIRC a lot of people was excited about the horror in the Netherlands last year. Certainly everybody was overwhelmingly excited about the strade bianche. Personally I thought it's to much of lottery. I don't adds anything to the race to have riders climbing the dirt roads of Crostis before Zoncolan. Hopefully the race will prove me wrong and make it absolutely thrilling with important attacks and counterattacks there with no accidents or riders loosing the result of the year because they are waiting for a new wheel...

The thing is, it's the thrills and spills. The more action, the more risks. It's what sells the race. The Giro often provides the most action, which means it is most likely to be containing the most risk. Climbing Monte Crostis before Zoncolán certainly does add something to the race, by making riders more tired and opening up bigger gaps on the Zonc, making the key part of the stage longer. There is no inherent danger to climbing Crostis. However, the climb of Monte Crostis and the descent of it are two different things. If there was a way for them to climb Crostis then descend on some more suitable roads so that that part of the risk wasn't there, I'm sure they'd take that. Nobody wants to see riders hurt, except in the sporting sense. Not even Zomegnan.

Descents the world over have caused some nasty crashes. Even flat stages have caused some nasty crashes, and we've had quite a few where we've been thanking our lucky stars the riders survived. Certainly Horrillo is one, but Voigt in 2009 was lucky his unconscious body didn't fly off the road; Pereiro in 2008, Fränk Schleck in the Tour de Suisse into the ravine, Rigoberto Urán disappearing into the forestry in 2007. Today's descent wasn't anything especially out of the ordinary. It was just something that was very unfortunate, and while with some major crashes such as those mentioned above we've been thanking whatever's up above for the rider's safety, unfortunately today we have to be mourning the loss of a talented young rider who was sadly not so fortunate. Perhaps the spectacle being first and foremost in the organiser's head may need to be reconsidered, and safety take a slightly higher prominence than it has so far. Perhaps the organisers have been slightly complacent about their attention to safety. Perhaps it was just a terrible accident to which nobody is really culpable but from which everybody feels the effects.

 

[Archibald]

read about the first 7 pages, and have seen a lot of "they should do this" and "they should do that", but I'm yet to see anyone say: what would Wouter want?

That is what they should do with tomorrow's stage, the remainder of the race, Le0pard's involvement, etc...

Would Wouter want the next stage neutralized or would he want his fellow riders to continue to race?

As for Le0pard (and others), do you pack up or do you ride on in honour of your friend/compatriot and try to win a stage for him/the team?

Obviously, each rider's coping method and the way they perceive/handle death will come into play as they attempt to answer for themselves what they will do.

Zomegnan's decsion to allow the riders to decide is certainly the best call.

Personally, if I was in their shoes, I'd ride on - to honour that friend/teamate/fellow rider, and celebrate his life and who he was. He died doing something he loved, which is enviable.

"Do not mourn and be sad for the dropped cup that is broken. Instead, celebrate the drinks and enjoyment that cup gave you." - Tibetan saying

 

[Grzdylu]

Wait a minute, Fisher is Garmin Millar teammate. So, Fisher knew about Weylandt crash and Millar didn't? I don't understand this...

 

[hrotha]

Wait a minute, Fisher is Garmin Millar teammate. So, Fisher knew about Weylandt crash and Millar didn't? I don't understand this...

It is my understanding that Fischer didn't know anything. He was joking about how he told Contador not to follow Millar, and he didn't, allowing Millar to get away.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Voigt, a bike breaking is just bad luck. But a rider catching a pedal is usually a sign of being tired and losing focus. That's a great place to situate a high-speed descent with hairpin turns and sprinters teams jostling for position for the run-in.

All I'm saying is that too often organizers needlessly increase the risks that riders have to take. Rider safety should come first and commercial interests second, but I don't think that's always - if ever - the case, and hopefully if anything good can come from Weylandt's death, it's that race organizers are forced to scale back a little bit.

And don't forget, this was almost the second death in the past three years at the Giro (Horillo's awful crash in the '09 Giro). Shouldn't that be a bit of a warning to the organizers that perhaps they're making it just a bit too tough?

Racing has evolved - it's faster, it's more aggressive, and it's riskier than ever - and organizers need to adapt to that by modifying routes to reflect those changes. Wider roads for sprints, straighter run-ins, roads with fewer obstacles, descents with wide turns and smooth roads, etc.

Just some basic safety measures for f**ks sake, is that too much for riders to expect?

Earlier race starts and increased time limits might help.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think any spot where you can be thrown 20m straight down should be considered a dangerous spot. The netting everywhere may be nigh on impossible, but at least at corners should be doable.

MV is right - here emotion is riding high, and races have tackled descents far more dangerous than today's in worse conditions. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant. Certainly I believe signposting of the route could be improved and a major help. Obviously we have the race handbooks giving out information on the route - but if the organisers are capable of putting up banners and signs at each km to go surely they are capable of putting up some signs warning when you've 100m and 50m to go to a corner, and with a graphic indication of how severe the corner is.

Today's descent is not the problem but on the Crostis. I am not sure if anyone could have forseen today's fatality coming. I agree that emotions are riding high, but the Crostis descent had been discussed before this fatality even happened. I think the nets are appropiate. If not maybe using a different route.

 

[Publicus]

I think AC was going to follow Millar, but Murilo Fischer (Garmin-Cervelo Brazilian National Champion) shouted at him not to go.

https://twitter.com/#!/MuriloFischerMF/status/67610121794109440

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[El Pistolero]

It is my understanding that Fischer didn't know anything. He was joking about how he told Contador not to follow Millar, and he didn't, allowing Millar to get away.

But why would Contador listen if he didn't know it then? Seems rather strange. Unless of course Contador did not follow for other reasons than Fischer telling him not to attack.

 

[benpounder]

However, the climb of Monte Crostis and the descent of it are two different things. If there was a way for them to climb Crostis then descend on some more suitable roads so that that part of the risk wasn't there, I'm sure they'd take that.

I have absolutely no knowledge of Crostis, yet looking at the route map, RSO could simply reverse directions.

Also, looking at the profile (which shows the non-paved section), it doesn't look like the treacherous parts - either way - are gravel roads.

 

[Magnus]

The thing is, it's the thrills and spills. The more action, the more risks. The Giro often provides the most action, which means it is most likely to be containing the most risk. Climbing Monte Crostis before Zoncolán certainly does add something to the race, by making riders more tired and opening up bigger gaps on the Zonc, making the key part of the stage longer. There is no inherent danger to climbing Crostis. However, the climb of Monte Crostis and the descent of it are two different things. If there was a way for them to climb Crostis then descend on some more suitable roads so that that part of the risk wasn't there, I'm sure they'd take that.

When climbing Crostis before Zoncolan the descent is inherent.

You're probably right that action leads to risks. It seems to me that a lot of people (including race organizers) agree with the converse implication, the more risks the more action.

Last year they didn't climb (and descend) Crostis before Zoncolan, but it was still a pretty awesome stage.

Edit: I'm not saying organizers are culpable for what happened today (nor am I saying they aren't). I just seems to me that the giro organizers are always chasing more and more extreme routes and I don't think it keeps on improving the race.

 

[Publicus]

But why would Contador listen if he didn't know it then? Seems rather strange.

Indeed. I thought most of the riders didn't find out until at the finish line. Maybe it is completely unrelated to the crash and Fischer correctly reasoned that if AC went, the whole of the peloton would have tried to respond and quash Millar's move.

At least I hope it wasn't that he knew what had transpired and shouted for AC to stop and didn't likewise pass on that admonishment to his teammate.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Here's a photo from near Ravascletto (on what is currently the descent of Crostis)

And a couple more:

the Strade Bianche at the top:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This looks like the bit from the other photo:

That's right near the top. In fact I think it may even be the bit that's a slight descent onto the flat top, before the descent proper. In which case running it in reverse may save the hassle. I'm not sure.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

androni have said they want to race tomorrow

good!

 

[Cimber]

Did Fischer know about what happened if he told AC not to attack?

He knew about the crash but not that he died. Also it was Millar who was attacking and AC who wanted to follow. He yelled at AC to stop, which he did, while Millar went on.

EDIT: Oh it seems as if Fisher's intententions werent really that "pure".

 

[El Pistolero]

If Androni decides they want to race tomorrow and do so while all other teams don't want to then they're going to be f*cked for the whole GT Simeoni/Armstrong style.

 

[Benotti69]

androni have said they want to race tomorrow

good!

have you a link?

 

[roundabout]

I have absolutely no knowledge of Crostis, yet looking at the route map, RSO could simply reverse directions.

From the map it's difficult to tell which side is more difficult to descend.

Also, given all the attention (recons, nets) it could somewhat paradoxically be a relatively safe descent. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

 

[El Pistolero]

He knew about the crash but not that he died. Also it was Millar who was attacking and AC who wanted to follow. He yelled at AC to stop, which he did, while Millar went on.

If he just yelled stop, then why did he stop?

 

[Benotti69]

If Androni decides they want to race tomorrow and do so while all other teams don't want to then they're going to be f*cked for the whole GT Simeoni/Armstrong style.

i dont think they will have a say in the matter as it will be LeopardTrek who will decides tomorrows course of memory to their team mate and everyone will respect that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

To tell the truth I might be more scared for those in the team cars than those on the bikes on the descent of Crostis. Though they have spent a lot of money on doing it up to make it passable (as in literable able to pass, not passable as in decent).

 

[Escarabajo]

If Androni decides they want to race tomorrow and do so while all other teams don't want to then they're going to be f*cked for the whole GT Simeoni/Armstrong style.

I don't think that's going to happened. Maybe teams are just voting or expressing their opinions. Maybe Leopard will have the last word. IMHO.