A Tough Situation for the Giro

[hrotha]

The photo on La Gassetta shows the road as being relatively straight where he went over. The hairpin was at least another 100m down the road.

[my edit]
As I said up thread, we need to know what really happened before haggling about what to do. I am mistaken in my initial assumptions. Turns out that Manuel Cardoso saw the wreck:
"(Weylandt) then looked behind to see if he would be better to wait for other dropped riders (some 20). While looking behind, he hit with his left pedal or the left side of his handlebars on a small wall and was catapulted to the other side of the road when he hit again something. It must have been terrible."

I see, thanks for the info. It would seem it was just a freak accident that could hardly be avoided.

That said, it reminds us of how inherently dangerous the sport is, so any debate on how to make it safer without compromising its essence should be welcome. While this wasn't the fault of the Giro organizers, they've often been accused of designing particularly dangerous courses or of not using proper signs along the route. Like Kivilev's death bringing about the rule making helmets mandatory (even though a helmet might not have saved him), if this accident makes pro cycling take safety more seriously, something good will come out of it.

 

[El Pistolero]

According to the eye-whitnesses he looked back, and then hit the wall with his pedal and lost balance.. he just landed in the worst possible way (probably full speed on the side of his head)

Let's change the bet we made and take a Weylandt avatar?

 

[spalco]

According to the eye-whitnesses he looked back, and then hit the wall with his pedal and lost balance.. he just landed in the worst possible way (probably full speed on the side of his head)

I think he was probably somesaulted over his handlebars and frontally hit the road with his face first, an almost typical cycling accident. Not to be obscenely graphic, I hope I'm not offending anybody, but in the stage thread someone commented (not sarcasically I believe!) that he thinks the injured rider is Japanese, that really is sort of what he looked like.

 

[luckyboy]

let's change the bet we made and take a weylandt avatar?

: / .........

 

[Angliru]

Voights crash was caused by the bike breaking though

It was my understanding that it was a dip in the road on the descent that caused his front wheel to go out from under him. That is if we're referring to the same crash, in the 2009 Tour.

 

[Magnus]

The TDF 2009. Descent off the Tourmalet. Jens Voigt crashes, face hits the road and he is out cold. Many feared the worst, but luckily the news was good.
Did we have an outcry demanding that The Tourmalet be dropped from future Tours?
No, because by a slim margin, tragedy was avoided, as it often is, in pro racing.

Today's descent was typical of dozens tackled throughout the European year.

At the moment, logic is not to the fore, emotion is.

It was the descent from col du petit st bernard.

The descent today was untypical in the sense that it was not preceded by a climb steep enough to split up the peloton (by the looks of the profile, I didn't watch the stage.)

 

[Benotti69]

Road racing is raced on roads, self explanatory, it is part of the sport. Each year there seems to be more and more road furniture and it seems to be more and more of a problem for riders. Last years Giro had lots of crashes in the beginning, so maybe riders need to police themselves.

Motorcycle racing in the Ilse of Man has casualties nearly every year. But when the riders are asked why they do it knowing the dangers, they always answer it is what they love doing and they would rather die doing it than not do it.

I dont know if the same is felt by pro cyclists as they are not expected to suffer the same risks an therein losses, but the speeds they reach on certain roads do increase the risks so when a rider crashes in certain way it can be serious. Can helmets be improved? Would it still prevent deaths?

I imagine the route will not be changed unless riders demand it. Tomorrows stage will be ridden in honour to Wouter and I expect to see his team stop on the line together for Wouter .

 

[mewmewmew13]

I know it's not really on topic, but I want to keep the Memorial thread for memorial only,

But what a terrible, disrespectful picture on www.gazzetta.it homepage

I saw this when I thought I would check to see what the Giro was planning for tomorrow...was shocked that they would leave this on the page. Very disturbing and no one needs to see that.

there is no cheer in watching the Giro anymore this year, if I feel that way the riders and friends must be unbelievably sad.

 

[roundabout]

But what can be done? As much as I think about it I can't really come up with any practical solutions apart from somehow modifying helmets that can help avoid a repeat of an accident like this one.

 

[The_Z_man]

I went to La Gazzetta wanting just to see what the road looked like, and try to get an idea of what went on. Instead, they have some pretty grizzly pictures up there. One is of him getting worked on, and I won't say what the other is.

What I was looking for was what the road was doing where it happened. Was there a switchback where he might have hit the road below, (a la Pereiro) or was there something off to the side of the road.

This whole thing is just too horrible.

 

[Cobblestones]

I've seen quite a few riders flying off the road. Ullrich did it once. At that time it's really down to sheer dumb luck whether you land in low vegetation to dampen the impact, slide down a slope and slowly come to rest or go down a 20m vertical drop with large, jagged rocks at the bottom. I don't think you can design mountain stages and eliminate all risk from falling. And I don't think you can have a stage on winding roads and eliminate all danger from hitting a wall, a tree or a rock face. You cannot even do it on straight roads.

Maybe you could improve some corners by putting up impact absorbers or similar stuff, but my feeling is that since it's open roads it's very very hard to analyze safety at all the points of the race. You cannot even compare it to motor sports which usually happens on some kind of track.

It seems to have been the type of accident where bad luck just piled up; where what might have otherwise been a chute like many others ended in tragedy and the loss of a life.

 

[Descender]

But what can be done? As much as I think about it I can't really come up with any practical solutions apart from somehow modifying helmets that can help avoid a repeat an accident like this one.

**** happens. It's frustrating and sad, but there is no one to blame for this tragedy.

This is the time to remember Wouter, and nothing else.

 

[Mellow Velo]

It was the descent from col du petit st bernard.

Without going off topic, it wasn't. (see Angrilu's post)

I find this surprising, re-tomorrow:
"The riders have told me that the prize money of tomorrow's stage will be devoted to the family of Wouter" announced the Director of the Tour of Italy, Angelo Zomegnan. "We know that the riders want to compete in the race even though in a different way than usual - he added - We will respect their decisions, both of Leopard that the rest of the group. I talked to several riders who want to run tomorrow at a fast pace and the competition then give the green light to Leopard." (Googlespeak)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It was the descent from cul du petit st bernard.

The descent today was untypical in the sense that it was not preceded by a climb steep enough to split up the peloton (by the looks of the profile, I didn't watch the stage.)

In 2009 they did this:

In the rain.

If you watch the 2009 Dauphiné or Vuelta, there are a lot of steep and difficult descents that the péloton stayed together through, often Caisse leading with descending en masse at the front. Most of the péloton did the Tourmalet descent in 2009.

This wasn't an especially dangerous descent, nor was it an incredibly unusual (albeit not the most usual) situation to have such a large group on it. From the sounds of eyewitnesses it was a strange and slightly freakish accident that could have happened anywhere.

I don't think course design needs to be radically reconfigured to erase descents like today's from the sport. Maybe some measures need to be taken, and perhaps more obvious signage, but we can never erase the risk completely. The stage to Middelburg last year caused multiple crashes and injuries and was completely flat. Short of just riding up and down a closed stretch of Autobahn, risk will always be there in the sport. That's unfortunately just the way it is.

We should try to cut it down, but we'll never remove it entirely.

 

[Cimber]

actually to respect his memory as a bike RACER, racing is the best thing they could do

I agree. Though neutralizing tomorrow's stage might be a great idea. But the rest of the Giro should be raced.

 

[patrick767]

I will respect whatever Leopard Trek decides to do with regards to continuing the race, but I for one hope that they keep going. I suspect most cyclists would want their teams to carry on without them, to have the best Tour they can have as a way of honoring the deceased.

People react to tragedy differently though and again, whatever the team decides is appropriate is the correct decision for them.

 

[roundabout]

**** happens. It's frustrating and sad, but there is no one to blame for this tragedy.

This is the time to remember Wouter, and nothing else.

True.

However it is still disheartening to be left only with hope that the next guy who goes over the road has a softer landing.

 

[Cimber]

paris nice 2003 and they continued. or tour 1995 and they had a neutral stage

1995,2003,2011.... 8 years between each of them. Coincidence, I know, but still freaky. Lets hope it wont happen again in 2019 (or ever)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

1995,2003,2011.... 8 years between each of them. Coincidence, I know, but still freaky. Lets hope it wont happen again in 2019 (or ever)

Actually, forget about the 8 year gaps...

Cyclists died in race in between as well... think of Isaac Galvez, or more recently Thomas Casarotto (u23 rider)

 

[luckyboy]

Did Fischer know about what happened if he told AC not to attack?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Bruno Neves in the Clasica de Amarante (now rechristened the Memorial Bruno Neves) 2008 too. And also in 2009 Frederiek Nolf died during the Tour of Qatar. It wasn't in race, but it was during it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Did Fischer know about what happened if he told AC not to attack?

Yes, he knew.

 

[doperhopper]

crash details (from velonews)

Cardoso saw: “Wouter was dropped and tried to come back to the group,” Maertens wrote of Cardoso’s reaction. “(Weylandt) then looked behind to see if he would be better to wait for other dropped riders (some 20). While looking behind, he hit with his left pedal or the left side of his handlebars on a small wall and was catapulted to the other side of the road when he hit again something. It must have been terrible.”

 

[Magnus]

In 2009 they did this:

In the rain.

If you watch the 2009 Dauphiné or Vuelta, there are a lot of steep and difficult descents that the péloton stayed together through, often Caisse leading with descending en masse at the front. Most of the péloton did the Tourmalet descent in 2009.

This wasn't an especially dangerous descent, nor was it an incredibly unusual (albeit not the most usual) situation to have such a large group on it. From the sounds of eyewitnesses it was a strange and slightly freakish accident that could have happened anywhere.

I don't think course design needs to be radically reconfigured to erase descents like today's from the sport. Maybe some measures need to be taken, and perhaps more obvious signage, but we can never erase the risk completely. The stage to Middelburg last year caused multiple crashes and injuries and was completely flat. Short of just riding up and down a closed stretch of Autobahn, risk will always be there in the sport. That's unfortunately just the way it is.

We should try to cut it down, but we'll never remove it entirely.

I know risks are part of the game.
I realize that this probably was the freakish accident that sometimes happen

But still:
It seems to me that the giro route is often made with more focus on crazy randomness than rider safety. And it seems to be a good recipe. IIRC a lot of people was excited about the horror in the Netherlands last year. Certainly everybody was overwhelmingly excited about the strade bianche. Personally I thought it's to much of lottery. I don't adds anything to the race to have riders climbing the dirt roads of Crostis before Zoncolan. Hopefully the race will prove me wrong and make it absolutely thrilling with important attacks and counterattacks there with no accidents or riders loosing the result of the year because they are waiting for a new wheel...

 

[Publicus]

Did Fischer know about what happened if he told AC not to attack?

I think I'm missing some part of this conversation. When was AC going to attack? And who is Fischer? Sorry, just curious