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Actovegin--Again

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Kennf1 said:
More information coming out about the initial seizure at the border, and the extent to which the doctor's assistant rolled over on him:

"Inside the car, the officers found 20 vials and 76 ampules of drugs that included human growth hormone and foreign labeled homeopathic drugs, according to the criminal complaint. The officers also found 111 syringes, an ultrasound computer, several documents, a Macintosh computer and a global positioning system. At that point, the authorities alerted agents from the Food and Drug Administration and a smuggling investigation into Catalano began.

The document says that Catalano was advised of her right to remain silent but waived it and agreed to speak with authorities. She told agents that she knew she was bringing illegal substances into the United States and was doing it on behalf of her employer."

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/sports/16doctor.html?_r=1&em

From that same NYT story, she was driving the doctor's car, and drugs were found in his medical bag.

In Toronto, Galea’s lawyer, Brian H. Greenspan, said Galea’s assistant, who was stopped as she was attempting to drive his car to the United States from Canada, was charged after authorities found four drugs, including H.G.H. and Actovegin, in Galea’s medical bag in the trunk.
 
Polish said:
IF it turns out Lance was part of the USPS team using Actovegin, and IF he was using it for "performence enhancement" (2 big IFs), he should just admit it. No big deal - it was legal (and ineffective) at the time USPS had some.

Probably not a good idea since that would clearly violate the "prohibited method" clause of one or another applicable anti-doping codes, and would surely result in sanctions, never mind months of press frenzy, lost sponsorships, inability to find new ones, fraud investigations, and Lord knows what else.

It would appear you know almost nothing about doping. You should stop.
 
red_flanders said:
Probably not a good idea since that would clearly violate the "prohibited method" clause of one or another applicable anti-doping codes, and would surely result in sanctions, never mind months of press frenzy, lost sponsorships, inability to find new ones, fraud investigations, and Lord knows what else.

It would appear you know almost nothing about doping. You should stop.

I don't think he's gonna stop until he wins back the dumbest post of the week title from Flicker. They are really pushing each other now!
 

Polish

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red_flanders said:
Probably not a good idea since that would clearly violate the "prohibited method" clause of one or another applicable anti-doping codes, and would surely result in sanctions, never mind months of press frenzy, lost sponsorships, inability to find new ones, fraud investigations, and Lord knows what else.

It would appear you know almost nothing about doping. You should stop.


Ok Mr Doping WFA (Worlds Foremost Authority) - when did the
"prohibited method" clause covering actovegin get written into the code?
Month/Year link please:)

I hope you are not thinking that USPS had to foresee the Future
to spot a clause that was not yet in place?
 

Polish

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BS

Race Radio said:
It (actovegin) is used in conjunction with EPO and transfusions to make the blood more "slippery".

Have to CALL BS on that one RR.

Can not find any RELIABLE source that claims that is true.

Why was USPS actovegin wrappers found in the trash - no EPO stuff?

Actovegin was as naughty as an oxygen tent BACK THEN.
Lance liked to hide the tent use too to get an edge
Don't give up your Legal Training "Secrets"

Another HATER MYTH bites the dust...."Lance used illegal actovegin
to make his blood slippery enough for EPO".
 
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Polish said:
Have to CALL BS on that one RR.

Can not find any RELIABLE source that claims that is true.

Why was USPS actovegin wrappers found in the trash - no EPO stuff?

Actovegin was as naughty as an oxygen tent BACK THEN.
Lance liked to hide the tent use too to get an edge
Don't give up your Legal Training "Secrets"

Another HATER MYTH bites the dust...."Lance used illegal actovegin
to make his blood slippery enough for EPO".

My info comes from a former USPS rider.

Armstrong seldom used a tent for more then showing it off for interviews. The needle works so much better. 160 Syringes and Insulin....of course these were just used for B shots.

It appears you fall into the same camp as Armstrong's doping doctor, Ferrari. Who said that if it does not show up in tests it is not doping.

Whatever helps you continue to believe in miracles.
 
Polish said:
Ok Mr Doping WFA (Worlds Foremost Authority) - when did the
"prohibited method" clause covering actovegin get written into the code?
Month/Year link please:)

I hope you are not thinking that USPS had to foresee the Future
to spot a clause that was not yet in place?

Are you under the impression that the 2004 WADA code was the first to have such a clause? You might want to check up on earlier incarnations of the UCI rules. Get back to us. I'll give you a hint--what started the "methods" clause was blood doping and was put into effect in 1987.

But yeah. Armstrong should just admit he doped. The fact that he doesn't admit it of course "proves" that he didn't, because of course it would be to his advantage to admit it, as you've so clearly shown.

This line of discussion is clownish.
 

Polish

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Race Radio said:
My info comes from a former USPS rider.

Armstrong seldom used a tent for more then showing it off for interviews. The needle works so much better. 160 Syringes and Insulin....of course these were just used for B shots.

It appears you fall into the same camp as Armstrong's doping doctor, Ferrari. Who said that if it does not show up in tests it is not doping.

Whatever helps you continue to believe in miracles.

Sorry RR, not impressed with your info.

And what is it with you and Syringes? The needle has been the workhorse
delivery method for Legal Drugs way way before Greg took his first iron shot lol.
Nothing wrong with needles, hundreds of legal drugs are administered
to Pro Cyclists using Syringes.

Legal Blood-Spinning to help cyclists & golfers recover uses syringes.


BTW, what is the alternative to the "Ferrari camp".....

"if it does not show up in tests - just use your imaginaaaaaation."

The SpongeBob SquarePants Camp
 

Polish

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red_flanders said:
Are you under the impression that the 2004 WADA code was the first to have such a clause? You might want to check up on earlier incarnations of the UCI rules. Get back to us. I'll give you a hint--what started the "methods" clause was blood doping and was put into effect in 1987.

But yeah. Armstrong should just admit he doped. The fact that he doesn't admit it of course "proves" that he didn't, because of course it would be to his advantage to admit it, as you've so clearly shown.

This line of discussion is clownish.

Thanks for the "hints" I guess. Its ok to admit you do not know, you know.

How about some hints that show actovegin is considered blood doping?

http://www.active.com/cycling/Artic...aks_three_ribs_____World_cycling_rankings.htm

Seems silly to allow "blood doping" in the Olympics.
 
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Polish said:
And what is it with you and Syringes?
Nothing wrong with needles, hundreds of legal drugs are administered
to Pro Cyclists using Syringes.

Legal Blood-Spinning to help cyclists & golfers recover uses syringes.

There is something wrong with Syringes. That is why the WADA code limits the size and type of syringes a rider can use. They also regulate the use of Insulin, another thing that multiple bags of were dumped.

As usual the criminals were ahead of the police. While you find this to be a good thing most here do not.
 

Polish

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Race Radio said:
There is something wrong with Syringes. That is why the WADA code limits the size and type of syringes a rider can use. They also regulate the use of Insulin, another thing that multiple bags of were dumped.

As usual the criminals were ahead of the police. While you find this to be a good thing most here do not.

Thanks for the info on the needles, did not know that.
I do not try to stay ahead of the poice anymore - that was back
in college. And those Drugs were not performance enhancing.

Back on-topic...this whole Actovegin thing has me confused

1) top WADA doc says actovegin is ok to use at the Olympics
on WebMD yesterday.

2) Do not see actovegin on the WADA 2010 banned list

3) Also, found this article today that states it is not banned
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/15/sport-blood-spinning-doping-laws
"Actovegin is like blood spinning, except that the doctor would use an extract of calf's blood, not the patient's own blood. It's another way of getting people fit again. Media reports say that a lot of top athletes across a range of sports have tried it. The concern is that it could be a way of getting banned growth factors into the body. It's not banned, but Wada say they are closely monitoring it. The trouble is, if it's banned, can it be detected? Sadly, the answer at the moment is no"
 

Dr. Maserati

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Actovegin is not presently banned under WADA or UCI rules - however its (legal) uses are limited and would require a TUE for its use.

Also - ANY substance which violates WADA Code M1 (and adopted by UCI) is on the prohibited list:

WADA code M1. ENHANCEMENT OF OXYGEN TRANSFER
The following are prohibited:
1. Blood doping, including the use of autologous, homologous or heterologous blood or red blood cell products of any origin.
2. Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen, including but not limited to perfluorochemicals, efaproxiral (RSR13) and modified haemoglobin products (e.g. haemoglobin-based blood substitutes, microencapsulated haemoglobin products).



Remember what Jesus Manzano said about Actovegin?
"Actovegin Gas Bus"
"In the short time trials it was used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it was injected the previous day," Manzano explained. "When preparing for a time trial the 'gas bus' is combined with bicarbonate, lactic acid, and a brand of caffeine that is injected in the buttocks, which by the way, really hurts."

As for what it does, this sounds interesting for the Pro Cyclist.

The active components in Actovegin® promote glucose uptake by cerebral and skeletal muscle and other cells and stimulate intrinsic glucose transport by regulating glucose carrier GluT1; Actovegin® activates piruvate-dehydrogenase (PDH) and thereby leads to increased utilization of glucose by cells and formation of energy-rich substances ("insulin-like·effect). (Oberermaier-Kusser et al. 1989;) Actovegin® also increases uptake and utilization of oxygen by hypoxic tissues and cells (which can be proven by Warburg's test) via promoting mitochondrial respiratory function and decreases formation of lactate, as a result, it protects hypoxic tissue. (Machicao, 1993; Kununaka et al. 1991)
 

Polish

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Dr. Maserati said:
Remember what Jesus Manzano said about Actovegin?
"Actovegin Gas Bus"
"In the short time trials it was used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it was injected the previous day," Manzano explained. "When preparing for a time trial the 'gas bus' is combined with bicarbonate, lactic acid, and a brand of caffeine that is injected in the buttocks, which by the way, really hurts."

Yes, I remember what Jesus Manzano said when he had coffee beans and actovegin
injected into his keester - He said it "really hurts"!

But the fact remains that Actovegin is NOT considered Blood Doping
by WADA or the IOC.
 
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Polish said:
Yes, I remember what Jesus Manzano said when he had coffee beans and actovegin
injected into his keester - He said it "really hurts"!

But the fact remains that Actovegin is NOT considered Blood Doping
by WADA or the IOC.

It was banned for 10 years just for fun?

The fact is certain methods usage of Actovegin are banned. No matter how many times you ignore this does not make it incorrect.
 
Polish said:
Yes, I remember what Jesus Manzano said when he had coffee beans and actovegin
injected into his keester - He said it "really hurts"!

But the fact remains that Actovegin is NOT considered Blood Doping
by WADA or the IOC.

Are you attempting to argue with RR while ignoring what Dr Maserati has to say on the same subject.
Here, since you seem to need it I'll make it easy for you. So you don't have to scroll back up 2 posts here it is.
The active components in Actovegin® promote glucose uptake by cerebral and skeletal muscle and other cells and stimulate intrinsic glucose transport by regulating glucose carrier GluT1; Actovegin® activates piruvate-dehydrogenase (PDH) and thereby leads to increased utilization of glucose by cells and formation of energy-rich substances ("insulin-like·effect). (Oberermaier-Kusser et al. 1989 Actovegin® also increases uptake and utilization of oxygen by hypoxic tissues and cells (which can be proven by Warburg's test) via promoting mitochondrial respiratory function and decreases formation of lactate, as a result, it protects hypoxic tissue. (Machicao, 1993; Kununaka et al. 1991)
Or maybe you have some better information?
 

Polish

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Hugh Januss said:
Are you attempting to argue with RR while ignoring what Dr Maserati has to say on the same subject.
Here, since you seem to need it I'll make it easy for you. So you don't have to scroll back up 2 posts here it is.

Or maybe you have some better information?

Yes I have better info. Go back and read ALL the links in this post.
It should be no suprise that riders will not be injecting actovegin in their
butts any time soon. It does not work. It was not illegal in 2000.
Lance MAY have tried to get an edge in the 2000 Tour by using legal
actovegin, but it did not work. He won the Tour on his own.

POP goes the hater-myth bubble.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Actovegin is not presently banned under WADA or UCI rules - however its (legal) uses are limited and would require a TUE for its use.

Also - ANY substance which violates WADA Code M1 (and adopted by UCI) is on the prohibited list:

WADA code M1. ENHANCEMENT OF OXYGEN TRANSFER
The following are prohibited:
1. Blood doping, including the use of autologous, homologous or heterologous blood or red blood cell products of any origin.
2. Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen, including but not limited to perfluorochemicals, efaproxiral (RSR13) and modified haemoglobin products (e.g. haemoglobin-based blood substitutes, microencapsulated haemoglobin products).



Remember what Jesus Manzano said about Actovegin?
"Actovegin Gas Bus"
"In the short time trials it was used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it was injected the previous day," Manzano explained. "When preparing for a time trial the 'gas bus' is combined with bicarbonate, lactic acid, and a brand of caffeine that is injected in the buttocks, which by the way, really hurts."

As for what it does, this sounds interesting for the Pro Cyclist.

The active components in Actovegin® promote glucose uptake by cerebral and skeletal muscle and other cells and stimulate intrinsic glucose transport by regulating glucose carrier GluT1; Actovegin® activates piruvate-dehydrogenase (PDH) and thereby leads to increased utilization of glucose by cells and formation of energy-rich substances ("insulin-like·effect). (Oberermaier-Kusser et al. 1989;) Actovegin® also increases uptake and utilization of oxygen by hypoxic tissues and cells (which can be proven by Warburg's test) via promoting mitochondrial respiratory function and decreases formation of lactate, as a result, it protects hypoxic tissue. (Machicao, 1993; Kununaka et al. 1991)

Polish said:
Lance MAY have tried to get an edge in the 2000 Tour by using legal
actovegin, but it did not work. He won the Tour on his own.

POP goes the hater-myth bubble.


Per the WADA Code Dr. M. posted ANY substance used to increase oxygenation of blood is banned. It does not have to be listed as a banned substance. Any use of a substance to artificially increase oxygen delivery is banned. Also per the links provided, any use in France other then for the diabetic or road rash treatment would be deemed illegal based on the importation statements made by the Doctor for getting the drug into the country.

I usually try to stay out of these threads but the quote posted by Dr. M. is quite clear any artificial increase in oxygen delivery is banned.
 
Kennf1 said:
Using his own blood, you mean?

No, don't you get it? If Polish can establish there were legal uses for Actovegin in 2000 (which actually isn't even in dispute), it clearly proves there was no illegal doping use of it. It also proves that he could not possibly have used any other illegal methods such as this crazy "using his own blood" you suggest. Especially not if one has a hematologist on private retainer.

I wish I didn't have to explain this faultless logic to everyone. It should stand on it's own merits.
 
Some thoughts on Actovegin from Victor Conte and what he sees as the benefits:

"If you can get a deeper training load by improving recovery speed in the offseason, then you're gaining your explosive power," said Victor Conte, the founder of the BALCO doping ring who didn't work with bodybuilders but with pro athletes.

While he was helping athletes such as Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery get a chemical edge, Conte said he advised some of them to take insulin in conjunction with sugary drinks in order to recover from workouts and pack on muscle faster. He has studied Actovegin and believes that it has that potential as a doping agent.

"It's a powerful performance-enhancing drug," Conte said. "Would it help with recovery? Absolutely. That's why you use insulin. That's why you use erythropoietin. They are recovery drugs."

Funny that. But I'm sure Postal was using it for boo-boo's on their knees.
 
Polish said:
Yes I have better info. Go back and read ALL the links in this post.
It should be no suprise that riders will not be injecting actovegin in their
butts any time soon. It does not work. It was not illegal in 2000.
Lance MAY have tried to get an edge in the 2000 Tour by using legal
actovegin, but it did not work. He won the Tour on his own.

POP goes the hater-myth bubble.

58572675210533300350.jpg
 
Other money quotes:

"The idea is you eat a lot, and use insulin to push the sugar into muscles, like heating up water so more sugar can be dissolved," said Rand McClain, a Los Angeles sports medicine doctor who has treated patients from the famous bodybuilding scene in Venice Beach, Calif. "Somebody did the research and said, 'Hey, this has an insulin-like effect.'"

John Romano, the co-founder of RXMuscle.com and an expert on bodybuilding pharmacology, said he had heard about Actovegin for years, but couldn't see why someone would use it instead of insulin itself.

"I can't imagine anything working better than insulin," Romano said. "If it was better than insulin, I'd know about it."

Unless, Mr. Romano, insulin was on your banned substances list (.pdf link) and acto-somthing wasn't. :)
 
Polish said:
Yes I have better info. Go back and read ALL the links in this post.
It should be no suprise that riders will not be injecting actovegin in their
butts any time soon. It does not work. It was not illegal in 2000.
Lance MAY have tried to get an edge in the 2000 Tour by using legal
actovegin, but it did not work. He won the Tour on his own.

POP goes the hater-myth bubble.