Ag2r

[proffate]

If all current doping products/techniques were available ten years ago, I'm sure all the contenders would've been slim as well.

the higher your hct, the more muscles you need to take advantage of the increased oxygen flow

 

[Dear Wiggo]

the higher your hct, the more muscles you need to take advantage of the increased oxygen flow

That's not my understanding from a physiological POV.

Anecdotally, in his book, Hamilton notes that he lost weight, increased his Hct and increased his power.

Further, decreasing mass through fat loss only goes so far. The cyclists from Riis onwards (or earlier) are losing muscle mass everywhere, IMO, to get lighter, and still generating massive power thanks to O2 vector doping.

 

[Netserk]

Good point, i.e. Cadel Evans, whom I think won clean.

They are slower: how much is less doping? Could it be less talent overall as well? Did the Spanish become dominant due to lesser competition? Did emerging cycling countries emerge for the same reason? How much did all the scandals deter parents to get their kids into cycling in some usually prolific cycling countries? Who would want to spend all that money on bikes (me) and risk the health of their child (not me)? A 12 year old kid at the time of the Festina scandal would be 26 today...

I am on record writing that the peloton is cleaner, attributing (rightly I hope) the resurgence of French cycling to less doping. Still, I can't buy the idea that cycling is doing much to eliminate doping when the Vinos, Mr. 60%, are allowed be anywhere near, or mentor, the young riders. I can't.

Hahahaha

I think that his performances in the 2007 Tour alone rule that out.

 

[sniper]

I think it's obvious that if there's a talent like Lemond (who for some reason wouldn't like to win the Tour and therefore dope), he would be able to fx win a stage in the Tour. I can't see why a Lemond like talent shouldn't have a chance to beat Kadri on the stage he won.

I don't think it's possible to compete for the win of the overall in the Tour clean, but I certainly do think highly talented clean riders can have a better career now than they could 20 years ago. It'd surprise me very much if you don't think so too.

i agree, but it's a hypothetical scenario.
the reality is less pretty.
how do you recognize a true talent?
we may agree contador, sagan, cancellara, kwiatkowski, nibali, dan martin, are real talents. But good luck showing any of them is clean.

a coupla years back robert gesink was considered a real talent in the netherlands who could podium the tdf in the near future.
he strikes me as the kind of guy that doped more or less traditionally in his early days (under lienders) but toned it down at some point, perhaps due to the rabobank-fallout (where he was lucky not to be named).
he certainly hasn't yet shown the potential we thought he had.

 

[kingjr]

a coupla years back robert gesink was considered a real talent in the netherlands who could podium the tdf in the near future.

He didn't seem that special in 2006 when he got dropped on the flat in Köln by Kai Reus, Christian Knees and David Kopp.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Bardet

Does anyone think the rest day visit by anti doping had anything to do with todays results ?

 

[Tonton]

Does anyone think the rest day visit by anti doping had anything to do with todays results ?

What a huge can of worms you're opening!!! If the answer is yes, what performances would you suggest were affected? No!

 

[Cycle Chic]

What a huge can of worms you're opening!!! If the answer is yes, what performances would you suggest were affected? No!

Referring to the top contenders - What reason would Bardet and Tejay have for riding such a poor stage ? with one hard climb. Bardet was rollin all over the bike at that top of that climb.

 

[hrotha]

Referring to the top contenders - What reason would Bardet and Tejay have for riding such a poor stage ? with one hard climb. Bardet was rollin all over the bike at that top of that climb.

237.5 km would be enough of a reason. Yesterday's stage was hardly comparable to the other mountain stages.

 

[SafeBet]

And Peraud was the third best climber of the stage anyway.

 

[Cycle Chic]

6 hour stage

237.5 km would be enough of a reason. Yesterday's stage was hardly comparable to the other mountain stages.

There were two category four climbs early on, mere bumps on the road compared to what was still ahead...... The group had an eight-minute lead as they headed up the third climb of the day, over the Col de Portet-d'Aspet, where Voeckler took the points at the top. The peloton, still moving at a comfortable pace, hit the top 10:15 minutes later.

The front group climbed the next ascent over the Col des Ares, and it was Voeckler, again, leading the group over the top, with peloton ambling over at 12:11 minutes down.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-16/results

Hardly a tough stage ...and... after the rest day...

 

[hrotha]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-16/results

Hardly a tough stage ...and... after the rest day...

What part of "237.5 km" did you not understand.

Also, you bold "mere bumps on the road" and conveniently forget about the "compared to what was still ahead" bit? I mean, you can be cynical all you want, but twisting things like that is just silly.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-16/results

Hardly a tough stage ...and... after the rest day...

The 75km break battle in the morning would probably hurt somebody with a bad day.

Much easier when 2-3 guys goes up the road after 5km and the majority of the stage turns into a group ride for the peloton.

 

[AICA ribonucleotide]

Kelly "Peraud - He's a different man in this Tour de France"

 

[lemoogle]

Really not liking peraud's perf tbh.

 

[meat puppet]

Really not liking peraud's perf tbh.

last huzzah from him, updating to papy status?

 

[perico]

Not normal...

 

[BYOP88]

Wait so the Froome defense doesn't work with Peraud?


The theory was that Froome developed later because he took up (road) cycling at a later age.

 

[difdauf]

For Peraud, it's not a bad argue, he is pro since 4 years and never done stage race before and could have need some years to be ready.

But still this is really really hard to believe he is so strong.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Plus, French teams were still in the dark ages of cycling technology, so it's no wonder they have a large margin of improvement in these times of technological revolution

 

[hrotha]

Wait so the Froome defense doesn't work with Peraud?


The theory was that Froome developed later because he took up (road) cycling at a later age.

For me, that's a perfectly good explanation for his 9th place in 2011 at 34.

This, however...

 

[BYOP88]

For me, that's a perfectly good explanation for his 9th place in 2011 at 34.

This, however...

I'm not buying it either. I just find it funny that people can see some interesting performances but not all.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Welcome to the Circus, Peraud.
Hilarious.

 

[deValtos]

He's certainly pushing the limits ...

I have a question though: What do you guys think a career trajectory of a top talent starting his career at 32-34 should/might look like ?

Assume by "top talent" that I mean this rider could've won say 5 GT's in his prime if he started his career at a "regular" age.

Could it look like something Peraud is doing ? Is Peraud actually a top rider or a doper ...

 

[del1962]

Things going for Peraud

Peraud, top mountain biker prior to going on the road late in career.

Antoine Vayer vouches for him

Last year doing well until he crashed out,

Younger than one of last years GT winners