AICAR, GW1516 Wada can test, can the French ?

[thehog]

Half life is 12 to 24 hours, period.

Detection is between 15 to 30 days dependent on dosage. Like EPO at a microdosed level or with a masking agent this can be removed.

 

[King Boonen]

Half life is 12 to 24 hours, period.

Detection is between 15 to 30 days dependent on dosage. Like EPO at a microdosed level or with a masking agent this can be removed.

You're going to have to provide references for all of those claims, especially as the paper I linked disproves one of them:

As can be seen from Figure 2A, the metabolites of GW1516 demonstrate exceptionally slow excretion rate and are well detectable even 30 days after single dose administration. A complete clearance of the drug took about 40 days.

And FYI, 12-24 hours isn't short.

 

[staubsauger]

Stablon / Tianeptin for example has got a half life of 3.5 - 7 hours (without taking metabolism into account) and thus must be taken 3 times a day. So 12-24 hours certainly isn't a short half life in perspective!

 

[thehog]

Re:

Stablon / Tianeptin for example has got a half life of 3.5 - 7 hours (without taking metabolism into account) and thus must be taken 3 times a day. So 12-24 hours certainly isn't a short half life in perspective!

It’s short enough to use in a controlled manner as the benefits are massive.

 

[Winterfold]

If a drug is effective you bet it gets fed to the gee-gees...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407446/

“Detection time 4.5 hours “

That there hasn’t been a positive for this just makes me think the test doesn’t work because you see the benefits of it, then look at the
peloton and well er hmmm

 

[staubsauger]

My guess is that AICAR is pretty much tolerated by WADA, UCI & Co as it has like zero side effects compared to EPO 25 years ago and those genetic doping drugs sport professionals would choose to use once AICAR isn't unofficially allowed anymore.

Additionally there's the whole fitness market lately, where all those models, bodybuilders, cyclists, soccer and tennis players look super lean and apparently healthy using all those sport food products to stay skinny. Most claquers really don't know how this people really can stay skinny that easy nowadays, so there's a lot of cash to earn with fitness products, diets, sport foods etc thanks to in reality AICAR benefits.

We know for sure since MJ and Conrad Murry that stars got their personal doctors like Armstrong had Ferrari as well. How do think someone like Ariana Grande manages to stay that skinny and sexy? Not with diets and sport like she claims obviously.

 

[King Boonen]

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW

It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW

It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.

Skinny was always the choice for celebs but now they can have skinny plus muscle. The Kate Moss heroin chic look of the 90s has been replaced by strong, musclar but skinny physique of J-Lo.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW

It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.

On further investigation it seems a product called Cardarine is doing the rounds and is relatively cheap - Cardarine is apparently GW501516.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).

Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.

I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW

It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.

On further investigation it seems a product called Cardarine is doing the rounds and is relatively cheap - Cardarine is apparently GW501516.

Correct & easy to buy because it’s classed as “research”. Just as long as you don’t use it on humans.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Ariana Grande for TDF 2019

 

[MikeS369]

I find it interesting the Sky have a cozy relationship with GlaxoSmithKline. The creators of GW501516.

Other drugs of interest, Compound 14.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/a-pill-to-make-exercise-obsolete

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

If a drug is effective you bet it gets fed to the gee-gees...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407446/

“Detection time 4.5 hours “

That there hasn’t been a positive for this just makes me think the test doesn’t work because you see the benefits of it, then look at the
peloton and well er hmmm

I think this is it. The test being worthless for this drug. These big guys being so thin and yet maintaining the power.

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Can somebody help me with some information on this Drug.
At one point this was the new EPO of the time. Clinicians went silent since 2015 on the information fo this drug. At one point I was convinced that this was the drug of the transformation of the Sky team. And many other riders. One clear the indicator was the extreme weight loss while maintaining power. My questions are:
1- Do we still believe this is "The Drug" that everyone is abusing now?
2- Is there a credible test for this drug?
3- Has somebody been positive for this drug?

(1) Maybe, the GW1516 is still "out there" somewhere in pro cycling. I think there's not specifically one "The Drug" because more than one method is being used with these metabolic modulators. Could be one of the methods though
(2) Yes, that is right, the WADA had developed a test for GW1516 by 2012
(3) and yes, they started catching cyclists on GW1516 in 2013. Not many cases, but...

...here is some ominous news for y'all
https://timesofsandiego.com/sports/2018/06/08/pro-cyclist-roger-ainslie-of-fallbrook-admits-doping-draws-suspension/

That was two months ago. Positive for GW1516 from a sample taken last summer at the Track National Championship

There was another U.S. cyclist busted last year for GW1516:

https://www.usada.org/kayle-leogrande-receives-second-doping-sanction/

I follow PED use with athletics more closely than cycling and there's been few positives over the last couple of years of so. The only one from track has been Belarusian mid-d runner Anis Ananenka:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anis_Ananenka

And infamous Russian doping coach Victor Chegin had two of his racewalkers banned:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Chegin

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

I think this is it. The test being worthless for this drug. These big guys being so thin and yet maintaining the power.

Very possible as well, very logical the AICAR may still be "out there" as well, somewhere in cycling

Does WADA even have a reliable test for AICAR? I'm not aware of any positives in athletics, and the only ban for AICAR I could find was a non-analytical case back in 2015 where Morrocan Abdelmounaim Harroufi, living & competing in the U.S., was found to be in possession and admitted use of AICAR:

https://www.usada.org/abdelmounaim-harroufi-receives-doping-sanction/

 

[staubsauger]

There probably isn't even a fully reliable CERA test like they wanted us to believe back in 2008,since the marker might be only be in the original Roche product and not in all generics. Otherwise they wouldn't have catched Pellizotti via blood passport only and obviously CERA is still used ever since then.


Either that or those Latin Americans are more stupid than the eastern block sportives and Di Gregorio which got caught with Aranesp.

 

[staubsauger]

AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!

I thought it was transfusion products for 8 riders?

 

[Aragon]

Re: Re:

AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!

That's big, good memory. I didn't know that. So both Astana and Xacobeo-Galicia were using the AICAR in 2009...

I'd be interested if there is any published source for this 2009/AICAR/Astana/dustbin - claim, because I've never seen any and I can't recall any journalists with unfavorable opinion about Armstrong (Walsh, Kimmage, Macur) mentioning this damning item anywhere.

My gut feeling is that original source is that someone (unintentionally) combined random and unrelated media items, because it is true that around/after the 2009 Tour there were the following allegations circulating in the media and published occasionally even in the same article:
1) Complains that Astana got a "favorable treatment" from the testers, early notifications etc.
2) Anti-doping specialists considering it possible that AICAR could be one a brand new product used by cyclists at the Tour.
3) There were unspecified banned products found from dustbins during the Tour.

 

[Aragon]

Re: Re:

Lots of sources in 2013 say French police found AICAR packaging in the Astana team hotel

https://www.dw.com/de/neues-dopingmittel-aicar-macht-mager/a-16945387
https://www.handelsblatt.com/sport/sonstige-sportarten/tour-de-france-aicar-das-neue-epo/8420464-2.html
http://www.velonation.com/news/id/16008/cologne-lab-develops-successful-test-for-banned-substance-aicar.aspx
https://www.b.dk/cykling/nyt-doping-gennembrud-kan-faelde-dette-aars-tour-ryttere

But these articles don't trace back to any particular original source, they don't quote other sources.
And the diabetes drug mentioned by Bourdry turns out to be sitagliptin, which really does (indirectly) increase insulin
https://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b4201

All kudos to you for tracking a source and applying critical thinking. It perhaps should be clarified that I got interested in the issue because I've seen this Astana/Hotel-stuff mentioned now-and-then and was just curious about whether there exists a source, because I couldn't locate one.

Those are sources and nodoby is dishonest if reporting that there is a source where it is stated that the AICAR/hotel/Astana - allegation has been made.

You are not vouching for veracity of the material and one should be very critical about the allegation because the only sources are published four years after the fact and the similarity in content of the articles does indicate that they are based on just one article and are more-or-less translations with a few details added/omitted. Because the sources claim that AICAR "first hit the headlines in cycling in 2009, when French authorities found packaging in the Astana team hotel during the Tour de France" and at not yet there is a 2009 source making this claim, the author of the 2013 article most likely got confused about the different items in a manner described in my earlier post.

 

[macbindle]

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/6739/anti-doping-bodies-tipped-off-about-possible-use-of-doping-agent-at-tour-de-france

 

[Mayomaniac]

Re:

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/6739/anti-doping-bodies-tipped-off-about-possible-use-of-doping-agent-at-tour-de-france

Yes, I saw the news on italian websites and in La Gazzetta.
https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2019/07/15/1563181537/doping-aicar-telegraaf-microdosi
The english article doesn't mention the fact that you could detect it my monitoring HDL levels in the blood, I didn't know that.
If that's true than we have another parameter that should be added to the bio passport.