AICAR, GW1516 Wada can test, can the French ?

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thehog said:
Half life is 12 to 24 hours, period.

Detection is between 15 to 30 days dependent on dosage. Like EPO at a microdosed level or with a masking agent this can be removed.
You're going to have to provide references for all of those claims, especially as the paper I linked disproves one of them:

As can be seen from Figure 2A, the metabolites of GW1516 demonstrate exceptionally slow excretion rate and are well detectable even 30 days after single dose administration. A complete clearance of the drug took about 40 days.
And FYI, 12-24 hours isn't short.
 
Stablon / Tianeptin for example has got a half life of 3.5 - 7 hours (without taking metabolism into account) and thus must be taken 3 times a day. So 12-24 hours certainly isn't a short half life in perspective!
 
Re:

staubsauger said:
Stablon / Tianeptin for example has got a half life of 3.5 - 7 hours (without taking metabolism into account) and thus must be taken 3 times a day. So 12-24 hours certainly isn't a short half life in perspective!
It’s short enough to use in a controlled manner as the benefits are massive.
 
My guess is that AICAR is pretty much tolerated by WADA, UCI & Co as it has like zero side effects compared to EPO 25 years ago and those genetic doping drugs sport professionals would choose to use once AICAR isn't unofficially allowed anymore.

Additionally there's the whole fitness market lately, where all those models, bodybuilders, cyclists, soccer and tennis players look super lean and apparently healthy using all those sport food products to stay skinny. Most claquers really don't know how this people really can stay skinny that easy nowadays, so there's a lot of cash to earn with fitness products, diets, sport foods etc thanks to in reality AICAR benefits.

We know for sure since MJ and Conrad Murry that stars got their personal doctors like Armstrong had Ferrari as well. How do think someone like Ariana Grande manages to stay that skinny and sexy? Not with diets and sport like she claims obviously.
 
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
 
Re:

King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
 
Re: Re:

staubsauger said:
King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW
 
Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
staubsauger said:
King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW
It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.
 
Re: Re:

staubsauger said:
TheSpud said:
staubsauger said:
King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW
It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.
Skinny was always the choice for celebs but now they can have skinny plus muscle. The Kate Moss heroin chic look of the 90s has been replaced by strong, musclar but skinny physique of J-Lo.
 
Re: Re:

staubsauger said:
TheSpud said:
staubsauger said:
King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW
It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.
On further investigation it seems a product called Cardarine is doing the rounds and is relatively cheap - Cardarine is apparently GW501516.
 
Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
staubsauger said:
TheSpud said:
staubsauger said:
King Boonen said:
If you really think Ariana Grande needs AICAR to look the way she does I honestly think you need to reassess that position. I know and have known many people who are built like that with no need for any drugs. Same with more "athletic" fitness models. I've even known some really muscly fitness models who I would guess didn't require drugs to get that way, although I don't know them as well so wouldn't vouch for it. Some people are just built that way, in fact a good few of the people I've known who are built like that aren't particularly healthy and some basically do no exercise (the lean/skinny people).
Thing is she already kinda lean when she was appearing on Victorious, but certainly not that super skinny with like zero body fat on her. She was only an example anyway. I'm absolutely convinced there are celebrities that take usage of this anorexia drugs, to keep their skinny frame. Simply because already back in the 80s,there were using the so-called Hollywood diet. It's no challenge anymore for cyclists anymore to be super skinny like it was in the Rasmussen days. Same goes for those starlets. Maybe not Ari in person, you might be correct.

I'm 55 Kilo on 1.72 meters as well. Doesn't need no sport or diet for it. Simply the way I'm build with my Persian roots. I won't get fat unless I got Baghlava for breakfast each morning.
I thought Clenbuterol was the drug of choice for celebs to thin down? I'd be very surprised if it was Aicar or GW
It was Kenalog / corticosteroids back in the day I think and reboxetine, other norepinephrine reuptakers (antidepressants) respectively, which cause high blood pressure and palpitation. Same side effects as with Strattera for ADHD, which in fact is a NARI as well!

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of starlets switched to AICAR from 2009 onwards. It's affordable for them anyway and has fewer side effects.

Just like with cyclists being skinny pre 2009 wasn't as super-skinny as it's been ever since for celebrities. That's why I took notice.
On further investigation it seems a product called Cardarine is doing the rounds and is relatively cheap - Cardarine is apparently GW501516.
Correct & easy to buy because it’s classed as “research”. Just as long as you don’t use it on humans.
 
Re:

Winterfold said:
If a drug is effective you bet it gets fed to the gee-gees...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407446/

“Detection time 4.5 hours “

That there hasn’t been a positive for this just makes me think the test doesn’t work because you see the benefits of it, then look at the
peloton and well er hmmm
I think this is it. The test being worthless for this drug. These big guys being so thin and yet maintaining the power.
 
Re:

Escarabajo said:
Can somebody help me with some information on this Drug.
At one point this was the new EPO of the time. Clinicians went silent since 2015 on the information fo this drug. At one point I was convinced that this was the drug of the transformation of the Sky team. And many other riders. One clear the indicator was the extreme weight loss while maintaining power. My questions are:
1- Do we still believe this is "The Drug" that everyone is abusing now?
2- Is there a credible test for this drug?
3- Has somebody been positive for this drug?
(1) Maybe, the GW1516 is still "out there" somewhere in pro cycling. I think there's not specifically one "The Drug" because more than one method is being used with these metabolic modulators. Could be one of the methods though
(2) Yes, that is right, the WADA had developed a test for GW1516 by 2012
(3) and yes, they started catching cyclists on GW1516 in 2013. Not many cases, but...

...here is some ominous news for y'all
https://timesofsandiego.com/sports/2018/06/08/pro-cyclist-roger-ainslie-of-fallbrook-admits-doping-draws-suspension/

That was two months ago. Positive for GW1516 from a sample taken last summer at the Track National Championship
 
Apr 20, 2016
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ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Escarabajo said:
Can somebody help me with some information on this Drug.
At one point this was the new EPO of the time. Clinicians went silent since 2015 on the information fo this drug. At one point I was convinced that this was the drug of the transformation of the Sky team. And many other riders. One clear the indicator was the extreme weight loss while maintaining power. My questions are:
1- Do we still believe this is "The Drug" that everyone is abusing now?
2- Is there a credible test for this drug?
3- Has somebody been positive for this drug?
(1) Maybe, the GW1516 is still "out there" somewhere in pro cycling. I think there's not specifically one "The Drug" because more than one method is being used with these metabolic modulators. Could be one of the methods though
(2) Yes, that is right, the WADA had developed a test for GW1516 by 2012
(3) and yes, they started catching cyclists on GW1516 in 2013. Not many cases, but...

...here is some ominous news for y'all
https://timesofsandiego.com/sports/2018/06/08/pro-cyclist-roger-ainslie-of-fallbrook-admits-doping-draws-suspension/

That was two months ago. Positive for GW1516 from a sample taken last summer at the Track National Championship
There was another U.S. cyclist busted last year for GW1516:

https://www.usada.org/kayle-leogrande-receives-second-doping-sanction/

I follow PED use with athletics more closely than cycling and there's been few positives over the last couple of years of so. The only one from track has been Belarusian mid-d runner Anis Ananenka:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anis_Ananenka

And infamous Russian doping coach Victor Chegin had two of his racewalkers banned:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Chegin
 
Apr 20, 2016
451
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ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Escarabajo said:
I think this is it. The test being worthless for this drug. These big guys being so thin and yet maintaining the power.
Very possible as well, very logical the AICAR may still be "out there" as well, somewhere in cycling
Does WADA even have a reliable test for AICAR? I'm not aware of any positives in athletics, and the only ban for AICAR I could find was a non-analytical case back in 2015 where Morrocan Abdelmounaim Harroufi, living & competing in the U.S., was found to be in possession and admitted use of AICAR:

https://www.usada.org/abdelmounaim-harroufi-receives-doping-sanction/
 
There probably isn't even a fully reliable CERA test like they wanted us to believe back in 2008,since the marker might be only be in the original Roche product and not in all generics. Otherwise they wouldn't have catched Pellizotti via blood passport only and obviously CERA is still used ever since then.


Either that or those Latin Americans are more stupid than the eastern block sportives and Di Gregorio which got caught with Aranesp.
 
Re: Re:

Nomad said:
Does WADA even have a reliable test for AICAR? I'm not aware of any positives in athletics, and the only ban for AICAR I could find was a non-analytical case back in 2015
There are ways to detect the AICAR - gas chromotography, 'bio-passport', carbon-isotope ratios
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/dta.2322
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/research/detection-of-aicar-administration-by-carbon-isotope-ration-mass-spectrometry
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/science-medicine/aicar-determination-of-aicar-ribotide-in-red-blood-cells-as-long-term
WADA has had tests for a while, but the fact these were still research projects in 2015 means, the enforcement would be mostly in targeted or retroactive testing. So my impression is that athletes doping with AICAR are making the bet their blood samples will not be tested in the future.

All in all, the AICAR is a good candidate, as a simple explanation for the observed changes in body composition in cycling
- found in rubbish bins after the 2009 Tour de France (established that it was used in Grand Tour level racing)
- former team doctor for Xacobeo arrested in possession of AICAR in 2012
- on the WADA Prohibited List before there was even a test for it, which is almost like free advertising for AICAR, no test until 2013
- rumors AICAR is still being used in pro peloton
- conclusive lab testing for AICAR exists but it might not be routinely implemented

It seems the AICAR and the GW1516 can also be used together for a synergistic effect
 
AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!
 
Re:

staubsauger said:
AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!
That's big, good memory. I didn't know that. So both Astana and Xacobeo-Galicia were using the AICAR in 2009. More than one team, including the big winners, so who knows what other teams might also have

So I wondered why Armstrong didn't confess to AICAR among the various doping products that he has used, I found this article
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview-part-4/
Armstrong says Pat McQuaid asked him about AICAR in 2009, and Lance said
"So there were times when they asked what was going on in the peloton and they asked me I had heard of AICAR three or four years ago when McQuaid asked me. I said I didn’t know but that there’d been talk of AICAR."
Yeah, someone probably was talking about that at some point, given that packages of AICAR were found in your hotel, Lance. Maybe it's true Lance didn't use it himself ?
 
Re:

staubsauger said:
AICAR was found in the rubbish bins of Team Astana if I remember correctly. 2009, the year Contador beat Cancellara in a flat TT. Also Armstrong looked notably skinnier in 2009 & 2010 than he did during 1998-2005!
I thought it was transfusion products for 8 riders?
 

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