Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[contador977]

Astana has been throwing kitchen sink all week, and the stubborn and a limping contador won't budge. Porte played his card close to his chest. If he is really banking on his ITT alone to gain time, he'd better put minutes on Aru and Contador. Coz' i haven't seen his acceleration drop Aru/Contador. I think that's Sky's plan. On the other hand, So far, Aru and Contador hasn't been able to drop him yet. And someone says that Porte didn't look good today? I thought he looked fine and always under control. Uran will finally getting over his illness by ITT time, but he can't bleed anymore time if he wants to be in close contention.

Alberto hasn't attacked once since the crash. Porte and Aru caught him back up after he dropped both on Abetone. Otherwise Alberto has been in nursing his shoulder mode. So until Alberto Tries to drop him again we won't know what Porte has because he's basically just followed. Followed quite easily most of the time, but those have been Aru's moves, not Alberto's .

I also thought Porte looked fine today also. Landa paced him back up though, LOL!

true. But Alberto did attacked in stage 5 Abetone. (whether it's half hearted or not) So far, i think the 3 contenders (at least for now) are evenly matched. (with or without Contador's injury). No one has shown the form that's above head and shoulder than their opponents and no attack has sticked or putting the others in so much difficulty (except to Uran). That's why it makes Porte looks good based on this week results. Until someone attack sticks, this is going to be a thrilling and long Giro.

Contador's attack on Stage 5 though, was the hardest attack to follow of any attacks so far. That was on 8.4% gradient, it looked like Aru was on the verge of cracking....Porte grinded after him. I think prolonged 10% gradient's will un hitch both of them.

 

[movingtarget]

I thought Contador looked solid yesterday. Porte showed some strain towards the finish but responded well.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

From an interview at La Gazetta with Oleg. He is more then keen to cut Sagans salary and/or contract as a sign of the new management.

Tinkov asks if the business model for cycling wages is structured correctly because riders who under achieve are paid the same basic salary regardless of performance.

"In the Classics we only had plan A, but no plan B, so when Peter didn't perform, there were no other guys to cover for him. There was not much we could do because we put all of the chips on one guy and it didn't work. Peter's still a great rider but he cannot win everything," Tinkov told Gazzetta dello Sport journalist Ciro Scognamiglio.

"The problem in cycling is that it's not easy to cut salary because we have a contract. I believe that cycling needs a different model. The problem with cycling is that riders look to raise the salary once they win. When Peter wins, he wants more money. When they start to win, that's okay, they have more and more money, and teams even increase them during the season, it happened with my riders last year. Unfortunately you cannot cut their salary but they have a bonus when they win, but if not they still have a huge fee, and that's really painful. They can have a huge part of your budget and they don't perform, but I can't do anything because they have a three-year deal. I don't like this model. Of course if I could find any legal possibility, I would decrease the contract. But we have to work with it."

About the team he expects more. Much more:

When asked by La Gazzetta dello Sport if he expected more from the team, Tinkov said, "Yes, that's true. I believe we are one of the best teams in the world and we cannot be beaten in the Grand Tours. That was another difference with Bjarne because he built the team only around the Tour de France, which I didn't like. I like to be good at the Giro, which is my favourite race and is very important. The Tour de France is still the biggest race and it's hard to compete with the Tour because of the money it has, but it's not the only race. There are the Classics, the other WorldTour races, the races in Australia, the Middle East, Abu Dhabi is coming… We have to respect all of the races, and I would like to win from January to October. That's why I expect much more from the team."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tinkov-keen-to-reduce-sagans-contract-after-poor-spring

There´s just no stopping this guy.

 

[Taxus4a]

I dont like anything the way Tinkoff understand cycling.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I dont like anything the way Tinkoff understand cycling.

He thinks managing a cycling team is no different than his beer business, but cyclists aren't bottles of beer and you can't turn out results the way you can production. Performance on the road isn't like production in the factory, and doesn't follow the logic of executive graphs and spread sheets.

His language is all wrong and so is his mentality. Not that a pro team shouldn't set high standards and lofty objectives, but there is a human dimension that defies everything Tinkoff stands for and represents within the business paradigm and the way he sees life.

His arrogance knows no bounds, while he believes he is as qualified to establish policy and strategy as those who really are. This is a dangerous combination.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I dont like anything the way Tinkoff understand cycling.

I am with you on that one, Taxus

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I dont like anything the way Tinkoff understand cycling.

He thinks managing a cycling team is no different than his beer business, but cyclists aren't bottles of beer and you can turn out results the way you can production. Performance on the road isn't like production in the factory, and doesn't follow the logic of executive graphs and spread sheets.

His language is all wrong and so is his mentality. Not that a pro team shouldn't set high standards and lofty objectives, but there is a human dimension that defies everything Tinkoff stands for and represents within the business paradigm and the way he sees life.

His arrogance knows no bounds, while he believes he is as qualified to establish policy and strategy as those who really are. This is a dangerous combination.

+1

He is a blight on cycling.

Thank goodness Tinkov is off the Giro for a week, the boys can have a bit of peace.

 

[SeriousSam]

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

 

[SeriousSam]

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

 

[rm7]

Dont see the problems in what Tinkov are saying. I also have the opinion that riders contracs should be more performance based, which should motivate them more.

Example: Sagan have 4,5 mio euro salary and some bonusses. Why not make it 3 mio basis salary, and 500.000 euro for momentum win, and 250.000 euro for podium in momentum. 25-50.000 euro for stage wins (depending on the race).

Could make the same example for Contador.

 

[rm7]

Re:

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

I think that Contador should only to distance Porte one or two times. With the final MTF's it may be hard enough. But if/when he gets pink (dont know who will have it after the ITT), all I think he should do is following him and sprint away and get 15-20 seconds every time he can like he did with Froome at the Vuelta.

He really dont need to put on a show.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

Of course you was the chosen one to completely miss the overall picture as is your routine. He speaks about wages and contracts using a disappointment with Sagan after said rider just won ToC. Nothing beats the encouragement hey?

We could always discuss contracts and wages but thats not the point here.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

I think that Contador should only to distance Porte one or two times. With the final MTF's it may be hard enough. But if/when he gets pink (dont know who will have it after the ITT), all I think he should do is following him and sprint away and get 15-20 seconds every time he can like he did with Froome at the Vuelta.

He really dont need to put on a show.

I agree with this, but I don't think he'll have pink after the TT, so it would make sense to go all out on at least one MTF to take it, and then follow wheels. And the question is, when he does go all out with his current level (or the level he has in the 3rd week), will it result in Porte's complete and utter destruction or not. I'm getting annoyed with Porte The Undroppable.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

As a businessman then, since this seems to be his greatest qualification, he really shouldn't whine about contracts, nor should the investment risks involved at all be surprising.

In every other sport an athlete, for good or for bad, has a "market value" based not on future, but recent performances and status. This is the leverage upon which a contract shall be determined, though once the contract is signed what happens next won't change the terms of agreement.

No athlete would sign a contract with a bad performance clause amounting to a cut in wages, at least I've never heard of it.

Tinkoff wants to have his cake and eat it too, but unfortunately for him in the business of pro sport contracts that's not the way it works. It, therefore, seems pathetic that Mr. Executive doesn't like the rules of the same market through which he has prospered and which has given him an "entrance" into cycling when they don't suit him. Then get out. Go to less risky investments.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

Of course you was the chosen one to completely miss the overall picture as is your routine. He speaks about wages and contracts using a disappointment with Sagan after said rider just won ToC. Nothing beats the encouragement hey?

Are you saying Tinkov isn't a nice grandfatherly figure? Probably, but then neither are the other bosses even if they aren't quite as frank about it. People here seem to have a very romantic view of the sport.

One would hope that Sagan doesn't need the soothing and gentle words of the team owner to be encouraged to win races. The huge contract, the prestige and the ability to earn another huge contract is probably all the encouragement he needs.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

Who gives the riders these contracts you think?

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

Like this you mean

http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Last+10+Km+of+Stage+3&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=arDWUzDwh8I&start=3&yr=2015

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

All Tinkov is saying here is that he agrees with the cn forum members that Tour only is no good. Plus he's making a few obviously true assertions about wages an contracts.

Of course you was the chosen one to completely miss the overall picture as is your routine. He speaks about wages and contracts using a disappointment with Sagan after said rider just won ToC. Nothing beats the encouragement hey?

Are you saying Tinkov isn't a nice grandfatherly figure? Probably, but then neither are the other bosses even if they aren't quite as frank about it. People here seem to have a very romantic view of the sport.

I dont imagine the other bosses being philantropists demanding nothing, but at least they have the decency to be somewhat internal about their opinions. Public sniping like this looks exactly what it is.

One would hope that Sagan doesn't need the soothing and gentle words of the team owner to be encouraged to win races. The huge contract, the prestige and the ability to earn another huge contract is probably all the encouragement he needs.

He doesnt need either soothing words nor public sniping after stepping up to Olegs first critique. You seem pretty clueless about good management?

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

Like this you mean

http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Last+10+Km+of+Stage+3&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=arDWUzDwh8I&start=3&yr=2015

Not quite, I was thinking of an attack that really blows Porte to pieces. Keeping with the Ruta del Sol, more like this
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/cyclingtv/?title=Stage+4+Final+Km+Recap&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=3382&yr=2015
if the attack had occurred earlier, the gap would have been huge. That sort of thing.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hmmm this pseudo-trolling is getting old

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

One thing I've been wondering is this: Do you guys expect Contador to take Porte's soul in the third week, ie to drop him for good at a MTF? I'm not talking about sprinting away in the last km for 11 seconds like at the Vuelta last year, but bringing down the hammer, like Froome has done on his rivals on multiple occasions.

Like this you mean

http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Last+10+Km+of+Stage+3&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=arDWUzDwh8I&start=3&yr=2015

Not quite, I was thinking of an attack that really blows Porte to pieces. Keeping with the Ruta del Sol, more like this
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/cyclingtv/?title=Stage+4+Final+Km+Recap&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=3382&yr=2015
if the attack had occurred earlier, the gap would have been huge. That sort of thing.

Do not troll us my friend

As for you initial question...I think he will drop him once, for like 20-30 seconds gap.Or thats just the way I think he should do, this is not a year for Etna, Double is in his mind.
Of course this happens barring Porte doesnt crack like he always do in a GT, then I see a minutes gap.

 

[sultanofhyd]

Will Contador ever let go of the "coffee" joke?

https://twitter.com/albertocontador/status/600006781411192832

 

[ILovecycling]

Alberto sprinting

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Will Contador ever let go of the "coffee" joke?

https://twitter.com/albertocontador/status/600006781411192832

LOLL

 

[Jack_89]

Serious Sam , the.King of Trolls ( when he 's speaking about Contador). I'm always ask why you continue to write in this thread. You dont't like Berto , maybe you "hate" him.
Why persist? Why don't you go in Porte or Froome or Aru or Nibali thread?!