Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

However Contador does not see himself as the leading favourite to win the Tour. He argued that the four top contenders for the Tour –Chris Froome, Nairo Quintana, Vincenzo Nibali and himself, are all “at a very similar level right now. Speaking from my past experiences with him, even if there’s no long time trial, I would say Froome stands out [as favourite],” he said.

They both respect each other.

“He’s got an amazing Grand Tour résumé. I can’t write off guys like Nibali, [Nairo] Quintana, [Alejandro] Valverde, but Contador does stand out. He is the benchmark, the guy to beat," he told The Telegraph. He describes his relationship with Contador as “a healthy rivalry."

Indeed.
Let's be honest both of them have shown the most impressive performances of the 4. Unless we really midjudge Nibalis dominance in the previous tour. If the numbers are true some are saying then Nibali was as strong as Froome was in 2013... stronger even.
I guess this Tour will tell.... atleast.. we hope it will!

 

[Publicus]

So DeJongh (briefly) explained their thinking :

“We’ve been studying the parcours closely and there are many stages, where you can’t win the Tour but you can lose it. The flat stages of the first week with possible crosswinds, steep finishes such as Mur du Huy and cobbles will make for a tough start to the race. So we took the decision to bring one more guy for the flat stages in exchange for a climber. In the end, what matters the most is that we send a committed squad that comes fully prepared to support Alberto”, finishes Steven de Jongh.

 

[Matteo.]

They should change basso with kiser and the team becomes one of the best squad of TdF. Pretty well balanced

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Wait where the hell is Kiserlovski ?

Some has to support Alberto at the Vuelta

 

[Electress]

I am pleased that Tossato is going, and apart from Basso, it looks pretty good. Every race with Basso thus far, I've been waiting for him to show something to justify his presence and haven't seen it. I can only hope that he will finally show me everything he's done so far has been about a build up for the Tour…but somehow, I feel certain on this I shall be disappointed. If this is all I am disappointed with, that's okay with me, though.

I quite like de Jongh's approach. I think it is canny. Contador showed in the Giro (and on multiple other occasions) that he can handle isolation in the mountains if he has to (trust me, I don't want him to be isolated and I do know it makes him vulnerable) and maybe they figure that Kiser or whoever would simply be more fodder for the Sky / Astana train and hence they might as well have a couple of guys who can be there at the end in the mountains, ride the trains with those guys, and have the others for exploiting situations which might expose their rivals big weaknesses.

I am more and more of the opinion that this race will be won by the most astute who will be able to play off his rivals against one another, not necessarily by brute power. think this will be a bit of a dogfight, and I'd bet on Alberto, assuming he's in any kind of shape, to win in that fight.

fleur how does it look? In shape?

https://instagram.com/p/4e_G-ln-FX/

Judging by his face, he's dropped at least a 2 kilos since the Giro.

I have spent some considerable time examining Alberto's face in the last few years and can concur, Publicus

 

[orangerider]

Basso will dominate! He's been saving energy for years to unleash a deadly wrath on this years Tour. Well ok, maybe not but he's going to be very useful fetching water and controlling breakaways. Puts aside all his ambitions, we've seen that.

 

[rm7]

Re:

I am pleased that Tossato is going, and apart from Basso, it looks pretty good. Every race with Basso thus far, I've been waiting for him to show something to justify his presence and haven't seen it. I can only hope that he will finally show me everything he's done so far has been about a build up for the Tour…but somehow, I feel certain on this I shall be disappointed. If this is all I am disappointed with, that's okay with me, though.

I quite like de Jongh's approach. I think it is canny. Contador showed in the Giro (and on multiple other occasions) that he can handle isolation in the mountains if he has to (trust me, I don't want him to be isolated and I do know it makes him vulnerable) and maybe they figure that Kiser or whoever would simply be more fodder for the Sky / Astana train and hence they might as well have a couple of guys who can be there at the end in the mountains, ride the trains with those guys, and have the others for exploiting situations which might expose their rivals big weaknesses.

I am more and more of the opinion that this race will be won by the most astute who will be able to play off his rivals against one another, not necessarily by brute power. think this will be a bit of a dogfight, and I'd bet on Alberto, assuming he's in any kind of shape, to win in that fight.

fleur how does it look? In shape?

https://instagram.com/p/4e_G-ln-FX/

Judging by his face, he's dropped at least a 2 kilos since the Giro.

I have spent some considerable time examining Alberto's face in the last few years and can concur, Publicus

Yeah, after thinking it trough, then I dont see Contador needing a extra climbing dom. Just thought that it should be Kiserlovski ahead of Basso.

Saxo is definitely not the team going to control things with Sky / Astana trains there to do that. Contador got Majka for the high mountains, and Kreuziger and Rodgers could be used tactically in a long range attack, because they're also very good on the parts between the mountains.

I think Rodgers, Kreuziger and Basso will be saving energy on the cobble stages and all the flat ones, and loose some time on purpose, so they can go in a break on the first mountain stages. They'll of course be needed badly on those hilly stages in the first week, where they'll just need to deliever Contador at the front of the last short climb and drop back, and then Majka will be in front of Contador. I remember last year when everybody thought that Tinkoff Saxo were weak, because their riders lost plenty of time, but they were only saving themselves for the right moment everyone. No need to use energy, when they dont have a job to do.

It's a very good allround team, but my only concern is that maybe Valgren/Tosatto/Benatti will use a lot of energy helping Sagan for stages. But Benatti/Tosatto/Sagan will be very important in the cobble stage, and I really hope Sagan doesn't go for a win on that stage. In case Contador get dropped (I personally think he'll be in a group behind Nibali and maybe some other GC guys, depending on luck), then he REALLY need Sagan to pull for the last 13 km (after the last cobble sector) to limit his losses. Because you can count on Boom and maybe Fuglsang doing that for Nibali. If he only loose 30 sec on that stage to the best GC guys, then it'll be a succes for him.

I personally also think that it's a VERY strong team for the TTT. Basso and Tossato will probably get dropped after 10-15 km's. Then there will be around 10 km's left. The "weakest" TT link will be Majka, but he have really improved his TT'ing and is very strong on a hilly TT course. Valgren/Kreuziger/Rodgers/Sagan/Benatti and Contador himself all have very big engines. They only need 5 to reach the line, so Benatti will probably go full gas until the last 2km's with the little climb, where the "weakest" link will be Valgren, who is a very strong hilly rider. I think they have a chance to win the TTT to be honest, but I think they'll be top3.

 

[Mongolian Mayhem]

Re:

What's so bad about fluo camo?

edit: besides the complete uselessness of fluo camo, of course

...Yes, exactly. Some people should his have been fired and others jailed for letting this happen...

 

[cellardoor]

I'm not thrilled with the Basso selection, but I think Publicus and Scarpani make good points that bear repeating. We're expecting Basso to be the last man in the mountains, partying like it's 2006, but that's a bit like expecting Bennati to be sprinting with Cav, just because that's what he used to do in the early part of his career. Basso's role is more to set a steady rhythm on the medium mountains and to act as a bit of a bodyguard. I think his elder statesman status within the peloton mean that people are less likely to be try to elbow past him into a slot he's trying to protect for Contador. Yes, there are cheaper people on the market for the medium mountains, but none with experience of attempting the double twice. I think that Basso has been very present on the front of the peloton this season, just not on the MTF in the way we might expect based on the type of rider he used to be.

I do still feel sorry for Kiserlovski though...one has to wonder what the purpose was of buying him unless they're going to let him fight for GC in the Vuelta.

 

[Ludwig's Olaf]

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

But Roche was completely useless.

 

[cellardoor]

Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

What was his motivation for doing this? Was it because he wanted to decrease marketing exposure for his credit cards or that he wanted to have egg on his face after bigging up the double on twitter?

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

 

[Miburo]

I don't think i ever wanted contador to win this badly the tour than this year. Not even when he was on armstrong's team (09)

Everywhere i read that quintana is so called the best climber, almost never shown but apperently he is, dumb journalists. Always this talk that he isn't what he used to be ignoring 2014. I understand the hype around nibali and froome though. They're extremely dangerous especially nibali.

Please alberto win this stupid race. Hopefully that way nibali stops then with the stupid 1 peak year thing too.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

I don't think i ever wanted contador to win this badly the tour than this year. Not even when he was on armstrong's team (09)

Everywhere i read that quintana is so called the best climber, almost never shown but apperently he is, dumb journalists. Always this talk that he isn't what he used to be ignoring 2014. I understand the hype around nibali and froome though. They're extremely dangerous especially nibali.

Please alberto win this stupid race. Hopefully that way nibali stops then with the stupid 1 peak year thing too.

he's shown enough to be considered one of the top 3 climbers easily, not sure i'd put him above froome or contador though, mainly because i don't see him having enough explosiveness to drop them.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

I don't think i ever wanted contador to win this badly the tour than this year. Not even when he was on armstrong's team (09)

Everywhere i read that quintana is so called the best climber, almost never shown but apperently he is, dumb journalists. Always this talk that he isn't what he used to be ignoring 2014. I understand the hype around nibali and froome though. They're extremely dangerous especially nibali.

Please alberto win this stupid race. Hopefully that way nibali stops then with the stupid 1 peak year thing too.

he's shown enough to be considered one of the top 3 climbers easily, not sure i'd put him above froome or contador though, mainly because i don't see him having enough explosiveness to drop them.

Big difference between top 3 and the best climber. And i think nibali is better based on his tour numbers last year.

One of the most overrated cyclists i've ever seen in the media and this forum. Had 3 days (2 in tour 2013 and 1 in TA) where he was the best of all the best climbers and suddenly he's the best climber

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

Yes I was going to add - "not that Basso is very useful"
But at least Basso is 100% commited to the team

 

[Ludwig's Olaf]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

But Roche was completely useless.

He dragged Contador to mountain-top finishes more than once in the dreadful year 2013, and will probably be a more useful lieutenant to Froome than is Porte. Looks like Tinkoff changed the team strategy, more exposure by Sagan than Contador. AC can realistically ride two Grand Tours per year and win the Giro/Vuelta double at best, while Sagan has a shot at everything else, stages, classics, small tours, the worlds. And if he doesn't deliver, he at least produces the headline 'is this the end of Peter Sagan' like he did all spring long.

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

But Roche was completely useless.

He dragged Contador to mountain-top finishes more than once in the dreadful year 2013, and will probably be a more useful lieutenant to Froome than is Porte. Looks like Tinkoff changed the team strategy, more exposure by Sagan than Contador. AC can realistically ride two Grand Tours per year and win the Giro/Vuelta double at best, while Sagan has a shot at everything else, stages, classics, small tours, the worlds. And if he doesn't deliver, he at least produces the headline 'is this the end of Peter Sagan' like he did all spring long.

Dragged Contador to mountain-top finishes? Surely you mean Kreuziger.

 

[Cimber]

Re: Re:

He dragged Contador to mountain-top finishes more than once in the dreadful year 2013

Hardly. That was Kreuziger. Roche was rather disappointing in the high mountains.

That said Roche wasnt useless. He was super strong on that epic crosswind stage for example.

 

[ciranda]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

Benjamin Noval was much better than both.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

Yes I was going to add - "not that Basso is very useful"
But at least Basso is 100% commited to the team

Yeah. I'm not sorry Roche has gone. I never thought he was that great. Plus he always seemed to have delusions of grandeur. Basso has had his grandeur and seems happy enough to work for Alberto and take the Tinkoff moolah. Plus I'm sure his palmares mean he can take some of the spotlight from AC when the media comes calling - he seemed to be a perennial presence in that post-race media tent in the Giro.

I can certainly buy the argument that Basso comes with a lot of weight (literally!) in the peloton. Having an 'elder statesman' with winning-a-GC experience has to be a big help. I think Vvde is the equivalent for Nairo (albeit he hasn't won a GT he's won just about everything else going). They just aren't going to take any *** from any young buck jostling for position. Plus they clearly have race nouse, which is going to be particularly important this Tour. Still, I'd love to see Basso going all Robo. again. It'd be so entertaining. Especially so as it would come as such as surprise - what a way to wrong-foot people! (How cunning would it be if it turned out he'd been hiding his light under a bushel purely for this purpose…!) not that it will happen, though

I have to say I agree with Miburo regarding Quintana. I feel like I am missing something…did I fall asleep and miss an entire season where he whipped the field? I'm not saying he's rubbish - clearly he's got loads of talent and is right up there, but there is a big gap, IMO, between his potential (and Hype) and his delivery thus far. As ever, the media are pretty lazy and stick to a narrative which suits them even if there aren't the facts to back it up. For me, Quintana could well turn out to be one of the 'nearly men', who perennially 'coulda, shoulda, woulda' won more if only X, Y,Z didn't happen. We'll see - I'm by no means writing him off, but I do find his anointing rather premature. Probably doesn't do him any favours, either.

At least I can understand the Froome narrative - albeit I also think he's got to consolidate the claims made about him. I find it odd that he's somehow already 'an elder statesman' of some kind, like those years of being utter pack fodder didn't happen. Of all the big four, Nibali's write-up appears the most fair to me - last years winner, big favourite, but yet to actually best the big rivals and therefore perhaps not top favourite but underestimate at your peril...

Alberto's narrative appears to be everything from 'against the odds after the Giro' (fair enough) to 'not what he once was', 'fighting a (by implication) losing battle against ageing'..(aka, 'on the verge of a has-been'). You'd think he was about 5-6 years older than Nibali or Froome, when in reality, it's, what, 2-3 years and, despite being around as long as Methuselah, he's still somehow able to hold back time long enough to win the last two GTs under difficult circumstances.

That said, I'm quite happy for the expectations of Alberto to be lowered - he has put enough pressure on himself to do the double. There's some advantage being the underdog.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

Indeed...both pretty useless

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff screwed up team support for AC on purpose when he let go Roche and bought Sagan in return. A strong signal that AC will be with a different team soon. It worked at the severly depleted Giro, but I'm afraid his prospects at the TdF look bleak.

Ok ok fresh point of view here

P.s. La flo. Roche was atleast as good as Basso has been so far this year.

Indeed...both pretty useless

Basso is better eye candy. Give him that. So he has *some* uses

 

[LaFlorecita]

Indeed, Electress