Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[damian13ster]

Re:

Still in the top 5? Not top 3 or top 2 BUT TOP 5 LMAO 3 in a row damian.

Dropped one time in the giro. And i don't count the mortirolo one since landa wheelsucked the entire stage and contador came back from a flat tire.

But you're right astana gave Contador the giro win, cause they could see the future and knew landa was gonna be a monster for 3 weeks straight. Fact is landa only won 1 time a straight up battle vs contador, on the finestre. And contador caught him in the ITT.

Now can you please tell me how terrible the season of quintana and nibali is? They're in your top 5 right? Compared to Contador their season is complete dogshit no?

Was the best rider of 2014 but somehow he's only top 5 GT, become a comedian damian.

Where did I say that Quintana and Nibali have had a great seasons so far? Of course it can still change for Nairo if he manages to pull back the gap to Froome or if Chris crashes, etc.
And yes, top 5. Froome is for now a clear cut number 1 strongest GC rider. Quintana seems to be the 2nd best climber, after that it is between Nibali and Contador, so could be top 3, could be 4th. Top 5 covers it both so thats what I used.
Come on, it was obvious that Landa wasn't allowed to go on Mortirolo..... plus didn't you hear his interviews.
Yes, he sucks at TTs, but he did amazing in the mountains and pulled back tons of time on Contador while being a domestique. Doesn't that say he was much stronger, and doesn't that show that Contador wasn't at his best level? If you agree that he is not at his best this season then what exactly are you trying to argue here?
You have no case at all

 

[Miburo]

Based on what is Quintana better than Contador? Amuse me.

Fact is that Contador rode the mortirolo 50 sec faster than landa. Do you've proof he could have done it faster? Nope nothing.

I'm trying to argue that you're insane for saying Contador is only top 5 but still you state Contador's been subpar while he won the giro and still is in contention for podium on the tour. If you would say that contador is the best GT rider then you can call it subpar but you think he's only top 5 so how is it subpar then?

You got me again with quintana being better than Contador. nice one.

 

[ninjadriver]

Re:

Still in the top 5? Not top 3 or top 2 BUT TOP 5 LMAO 3 in a row damian.

Dropped one time in the giro. And i don't count the mortirolo one since landa wheelsucked the entire stage and contador came back from a flat tire.

But you're right astana gave Contador the giro win, cause they could see the future and knew landa was gonna be a monster for 3 weeks straight. Fact is landa only won 1 time a straight up battle vs contador, on the finestre. And contador caught him in the ITT.

Now can you please tell me how terrible the season of quintana and nibali is? They're in your top 5 right? Compared to Contador their season is complete dogshit no?

Was the best rider of 2014 but somehow he's only top 5 GT, become a comedian damian.

In addition to Landa riding away into the sunset from Alberto, twice, unless Aprica doesn't count, Aru also dropped Contador in the Giro, I believe twice over the last two stages.

While admittedly Contador had no Giro team, unless you count Kruijswijk, Contador post-his 2012 return is not the same rider as Contador from 2008-2011. I'm in the middle of watching the 2011 Giro - Contador's performance was one of the most devastatingly frightening I've ever seen in sports, like the 2000 Ravens defense or the 1995 Houston Rockets playoff run or Usain Bolt's 9.58 or 19.19.

This 2015 TDF discarded snakeskin version is tragically sad for me to watch, personally.

 

[Miburo]

Now to prove you're a hypocrite. This is what you said in the nibali thread today.

Showing what a true champion is made of. At least he is attacking and making those attacks count

Almost every nibali fan in this forum will state he's a disgrace this season, he's even worse in this tour than contador who won the giro. And then you write this today on his thread. Why are you not critical towards nibali? Why are you not bashing him like you do with Contador? Apperently nibali is on the same level as Contador. Yet you praise the man who is way worse than Contador this year. But today he gained a gap cause they let him go so since he's no threat only reason why. Proof for that is poels coming back and setting the pace. That's how the opponents view nibali. He's no threat, they all jumped on contador's wheel. They do'nt care about nibali, he can leave. That's how bad nibali is in this tour, can you imagine? No one cares about him. And a contador who won the giro will never be allowed to ride away like that.

How can i trust the words, the posts of a hypocrite? How can you have a serious discussion with a person like that? I know you realise it yourself, hence why i say you should be a comedian or maybe you're just in complete denial about yourself but i don't think you are.

It was fun damian.

 

[ninjadriver]

Re:

Based on what is Quintana better than Contador? Amuse me.

Fact is that Contador rode the mortirolo 50 sec faster than landa. Do you've proof he could have done it faster? Nope nothing.

I'm trying to argue that you're insane for saying Contador is only top 5 but still you state Contador's been subpar while he won the giro and still is in contention for podium on the tour. If you would say that contador is the best GT rider then you can call it subpar but you think he's only top 5 so how is it subpar then?

You got me again with quintana being better than Contador. nice one.

This is not my fight, Miburo, but Landa was pacing protected team leader Aru on the Mortirolo. We have probable cause that Landa could have gone not just as fast as Contador but even faster than Contador based on what transpired after Contador caught and then attacked Aru, drawing Kruijswijk and Landa with him, resulting ultimately in the British Eurosport announcers yelling "Landa has flown!!!! He's flown!!!!" after he dropped Contador and Kruijswijk on the Aprica. Landa looked like Ricco as the Giro drew to a close. Postulating that Landa only was able to pull away on the Aprica because Contador was tired from his amazing Mortirolo comeback is plausible, but it's not what my eyes told me, in all fairness.

 

[Energy Starr]

I'll argue at the point Landa was dropping Contador, he did so because the race was already over. Maybe AC was tyring to get the win with the absolute least effort possible. Maybe things would have been different if Landa was a threat. So let's say for the sake of argument AC beats Froome by 2 minutes on ADH, but still loses the tour by 2 minutes. Are you then going to argue that AC was better than Froome? The only way to be better is to finish ahead for the whole thing. If AC wins ADH by 2 minutes it will be because Froome knew the race was over.

 

[Publicus]

The difficulty here in making any ranking based SOLELY on this Tour de France is Contador had the audacity to race the Giro first. So, unfortunately, all things are not equal between the top 5 contenders. Anyone who declines to consider the impact of the Giro on Contador when making any such assessment is making it clear that they are allowing bias, instead of logic, dictate their analysis. If Contador podiums this Tour de France, I think there is little room to argue that he isn't the best GT rider in this current peloton, by a wide margin (frankly I don't think there's much of a debate NOW, but I'm willing to entertain the discussion based upon Froome's performances in 2013/2015). I'm not in any way confident that he can make podium yet (though he's looked better and better each mountain stage), but if he wins the Giro and makes podium against this field, then it's a forgone conclusion that isn't up for debate.

 

[Jelantik]

in hindsight though, Contador played safe in the descent. I re-watched the stage.. TJ and Barguil.. they were trying to over take each other every single corner, with Barguil taking risk and good god, TJ descent like Andy. No wonder Contador stayed at the back watching those two just over take each other. At least, he is safe and goes to the alps in one piece except his leg.. that's TBD

 

[moonstation2000]

Re:

The difficulty here in making any ranking based SOLELY on this Tour de France is Contador had the audacity to race the Giro first. So, unfortunately, all things are not equal between the top 5 contenders. Anyone who declines to consider the impact of the Giro on Contador when making any such assessment is making it clear that they are allowing bias, instead of logic, dictate their analysis. If Contador podiums this Tour de France, I think there is little room to argue that he isn't the best GT rider in this current peloton, by a wide margin (frankly I don't think there's much of a debate NOW, but I'm willing to entertain the discussion based upon Froome's performances in 2013/2015). I'm not in any way confident that he can make podium yet (though he's looked better and better each mountain stage), but if he wins the Giro and makes podium against this field, then it's a forgone conclusion that isn't up for debate.

Agreed! He's performing very well considering the Giro in his legs. Without Froome he'd be still in contention for first place. If he makes podium (which I hope he does) that's quite an achievement.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Wow.

Of course Contador is the number 1 GT racer. No one even comes close. He won the last 2 GTs, and is competitive in this one. People who say he's the worst of the Big 4 should look at the bigger picture and not just at this one GT in isolation.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Contador would still be in contention to win the tour if Froome wasn't in the race, just as in 2013. People seem to forget that Contador started the final competitively raced stage in 2nd. Ive as always wondered how that stage would have unfolded had he been in yellow.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

Contador would still be in contention to win the tour if Froome wasn't in the race, just as in 2013. People seem to forget that Contador started the final competitively raced stage in 2nd. Ive as always wondered how that stage would have unfolded had he been in yellow.

You can't possibly know that.
If Froome wasn't in the race Quintana would have raced differently.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

I'll argue at the point Landa was dropping Contador, he did so because the race was already over. Maybe AC was tyring to get the win with the absolute least effort possible. Maybe things would have been different if Landa was a threat. So let's say for the sake of argument AC beats Froome by 2 minutes on ADH, but still loses the tour by 2 minutes. Are you then going to argue that AC was better than Froome? The only way to be better is to finish ahead for the whole thing. If AC wins ADH by 2 minutes it will be because Froome knew the race was over.

In the Giro mountain stages Contador gapped Landa only once, in stage 18 to Verbania.
In stage 8, 15, 16 and 20 Landa dropped him.
In stage 19 they finished in the same time. I'm sorry but empirical data analysis is against you in this case.
The analogy of ADH is not relevant to the Landa-Contador Giro case.

 

[LaFlorecita]

On stage 8 and 15 Contador let Landa go.

 

[Ataraxus]

I'm pretty sure fanboys have excuses for all of the 4 cases Landa dropped him. Landa has an excuse for the stage into Verbania as well (crash before the climb).
But 4-1 excuse ratio is still against Contador in the Giro climbing debate. As is the time taken in the mountains, stage wins, one on one mountain battles etc.

 

[Miburo]

And Contador took more than 4 minutes in the ITT. What's your point?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Alberto says on Eurosport he tried to attack but got scared after the Thomas crash;
Greg says "you are a real attacker, do you still want to attack?" Alberto hopes he can attack some more in the Alpes;
Greg asks if he is in the same shape as in the Giro, Alberto says no because he didn't have enough time to recover;
Greg asks about team Sky's strength, Alberto says they are super strong, all of them but especially Thomas;
Greg asks is the team happy? Alberto says they are happy so far and Sagan especially has been amazing;
Ashley asks about the Ivan Basso news, Alberto says it was a big shock, he is not just a teammate but also a great friend.

Translation I got was that he said Thomas is strong but they are not all strong.

You are right, I just rewatched the interview. My bad!

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Contador would still be in contention to win the tour if Froome wasn't in the race, just as in 2013. People seem to forget that Contador started the final competitively raced stage in 2nd. Ive as always wondered how that stage would have unfolded had he been in yellow.

You can't possibly know that.
If Froome wasn't in the race Quintana would have raced differently.

if Bertie can match Froome and beat him like 2014, he's not going to have much trouble with Quintana.
He just beat Quintana before the tour. I think that race showed us where Quintana's form is.
Quintana cannot race. He just hopes he his the strongest on the last climb.

 

[Miburo]

Bruyneel says that Contador made a mistake racing the tour du sud, he shouldn't have done that according to bruyneel.

I don't see the issue with 4 days of racing but i value bruyneel's opinion, so?

He also said that the only way something can happen in this tour is an alliance betwen contaodor and quintana. And froome having a bad moment the time they attack. Obviously that's true lol

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

Bruyneel says that Contador made a mistake racing the tour du sud, he shouldn't have done that according to bruyneel.

I don't see the issue with 4 days of racing but i value bruyneel's opinion, so?

He also said that the only way something can happen in this tour is an alliance betwen contaodor and quintana. And froome having a bad moment the time they attack. Obviously that's true lol

If Contador tries an alliance with Quintana, he'll get a pokerface as the answer so he won't be able to know if he's really engaged in an alliance.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Contador would still be in contention to win the tour if Froome wasn't in the race, just as in 2013. People seem to forget that Contador started the final competitively raced stage in 2nd. Ive as always wondered how that stage would have unfolded had he been in yellow.

You can't possibly know that.
If Froome wasn't in the race Quintana would have raced differently.

if Bertie can match Froome and beat him like 2014, he's not going to have much trouble with Quintana.
He just beat Quintana before the tour. I think that race showed us where Quintana's form is.
Quintana cannot race. He just hopes he his the strongest on the last climb.

That race showed us nothing. Except the fact that Contador is a better descender than Quintana(which we already knew).
He doesn't hope. He attacks plenty of times. If Froome hadn't been in the race, ceteris paribus, the stage into PdB would have developed differently.

 

[BlurryVII]

Contador won the last 2 GTs, dominated last year uphill, he is the only one who dared to face the double when Nibali and Froome backed out, surprisingly enough right after Contador announced he'd do the double.

Of course he is the best GT rider, if he was kinda sub par this season, it's only because of the double approach. He had to take it easy in the spring then clearly stated he was not in his best form at the Giro, no as good as at the Tour 14' obviously, to be able to hold his peak until the Tour.

But turns out he had a hard Giro, crashed twice and left alone against the Astana army who was much stronger than any team in this Tour. Next thing we know, his plan didn't work out, the Giro screwed him over as expected .

At least he tried. This Tour is absolutely meaningless as far as Contador is concerned, because he is not on equal terms. Of course people get excited over the current trend but it's always what happens on this forum.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

if Bertie can match Froome and beat him like 2014, he's not going to have much trouble with Quintana.
He just beat Quintana before the tour. I think that race showed us where Quintana's form is.
Quintana cannot race. He just hopes he his the strongest on the last climb.

Quintana is absolutely no match against a fully prepared Contador uphill.

That guy is literally the definition of the word overrating. He's a good climber but what I've been reading is completely redonkulous

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Bruyneel says that Contador made a mistake racing the tour du sud, he shouldn't have done that according to bruyneel.

I don't see the issue with 4 days of racing but i value bruyneel's opinion, so?

He also said that the only way something can happen in this tour is an alliance betwen contaodor and quintana. And froome having a bad moment the time they attack. Obviously that's true lol

maybe there's a truth in that. Because contador was exhausted in the past 2 weeks. On the other hand Porte didn't race since he left Giro. (of course not totally the same as far as the amount of effort and days), but he was pretty good in the second week mountain.

whoever he should ally, should be nibali. Ally with Quintana just not possible. It means dropping valverde. Not sure if Valverde will be happy with that.

 

[Jelantik]

what do you guys think about Froome's number?

my guess is.. either everyone now packs their bag now since they know their number below that. Or Nibali 2014/ Contador 2014 number would have toppled Froome 2015 That means there's a hope next year..