Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

I made a comment that Alberto's Tour performance looks great now because of how riders who finished the tdf in a high position on gc are performing in this Vuelta. I used Quintana, Valverde and Froome as examples.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that *** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

 

[SeriousSam]

But because of the huge difference in circumstances, how Quintana, Valverde and Froome performed today doesn't make Contador's Tour performance look great at all.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The difference is Froome's aim wasn't to win the Tour- Vuelta. His aim was to win the Tour and then, why not, ride the Vuelta, nothing to lose, cos he's already won the big prize that marks you down as the best gt rider of the year.

Contador's aim was to win Giro- Tour. To not quite hit full peak at the Giro. To save it for the Tour.

Froome on PSM btw was like better than Contador's entire Giro combined btw. He showed way higher form in the TDF than Contador has shown this year, or really at any point in his career since 2009. Hypothetical biased estimations of how fast he "would have" climbed in 2014 aside.

And PSM was also a matter of a lot of riders underperforming.

Reading this forum, and in particularly posts from people who constantly want to undermine Froome and Wiggos performances (be it fans in the clinic or haters outside the clinic) I get the impression that every single **** day of racing for the last 5 years has been underperformed. By everybody.
All the time.

2012 was underperformed by all riders. And not just the Tour, the whole **** season. Then 2013 too. It was underperformed. Again the whole season and especially the Tour. 2011 was also underperformed (Actually 2011 i can kind of buy since its the one year times were slower). 2010 was also obviously underperformed because Menchov almost won in the tt and Schleck got close to Contador. Now 2015 is also underperformed.

At some point its not underperformed but simply - performed.

The reason people think this is becasue they see riders at their best one day and then years later expect every single rider to hit that peak. To be at that best form they only ever really had for one day.

That's not how it works. Its very difficult to hit your peak. Every single race is full of some riders who underperform and some who overperform and some who are as expected.

Its idiotic to say - oh but Gesink came 6th, we thought he would be 12th. If that's how it worked there would be no betting industry because everyone would always no the precise order every stage will finish in.

Froome on PSM put a minute into Quintana and 2 into Contador. And you are giving me data from Gesink? He put a minute into the next best rider, and the next best rider is Nairo Quintana. That's all I need to know. That + 6.1 w/kg for 40 minutes.

Underperformed my ass. He gave them a whooping they'll never forget.

So someone is performing up to standard in the Tour when they perform better on the Hazallanas in februari? Nibali dropping 4 minutes whilst having the 3rd best ascent on La Toussuire after attacking on the Glandon is up to standard?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

But because of the huge difference in circumstances, how Quintana, Valverde and Froome performed today doesn't make Contador's Tour performance look great at all.

I think it shows that the level that Contador regresses to after throwing everything at him is higher than pretty much anyone elses

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

not surprised that for some the way froome failed today is handled with an unconcealed relief. well, it's gotta be an interesting tour next year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

not surprised that for some the way froome failed today is handled with an unconcealed relief. well, it's gotta be an interesting tour next year.

I don't understand why you have to turn a series of positive posts about Alberto into something negative about Froome?

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

But because of the huge difference in circumstances, how Quintana, Valverde and Froome performed today doesn't make Contador's Tour performance look great at all.

I think it shows that the level that Contador regresses to after throwing everything at him is higher than pretty much anyone elses

Are we seeing anything from Valverde we haven't yet seen many times before? No. His performance shouldn't alter perceptions at all. Froome had a shitty prep and crashed, Quintana appears to be sick. Neither structured their training so as to target the Vuelta. With so many confounding variables it's a heroic leap of faith to infer anything about how good Contador's double performance really was.

As I've argued before, the best comparison remains his own Double from 2011. If we ignore the Double aspect and want to rate his performances separately, the best comparison is to the other riders who did those GTs. Given what I expected, Contador was poor in both the Giro and the Tour. If you expected him to get outclimbed and win with a strong TT in the Giro, and be completely hopeless in the Tour, he might have met our exceeded your expecations. But who are we kidding. Hardly anyone itt expected that.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

Yeah, only I didn't say that at all.

What I did was respond to people like yourself saying - "oh look Froome has also failed", with the observation that I don't think the situations are comparable.

Yes I do think Froome is more likely to win 2 gts in a row than Contador. Because of the immunity from fatigue he showed in 2013.

And because hes had more success recently. Which hurts me because I do still have a spot in my heart for Contador as a rider, especially at the TDF which i desperately want him to win. But I watched a sad thing about a dog dying this morning, and I didn't change the channel even though it was depressing becuase a man should stand there and face it because that is life. And its the same here. It hurts me cos I think Froome is a particular type of ***, especially with the animal cruelty, and though I wouldn't shake hands with Contador without counting my fingers I do wish him the success he seems unfortunately unable to capture and certainly would like to see him beat Froome.

But again, a man must stand there and no matter how sad it is, face it, so I speak what I see, Froome is better. Its sad, but la vie est ainsi.

Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

ooooh.
meiow.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

Yeah, only I didn't say that at all.

What I did was respond to people like yourself saying - "oh look Froome has also failed", with the observation that I don't think the situations are comparable.

Yes I do think Froome is more likely to win 2 gts in a row than Contador. Because of the immunity from fatigue he showed in 2013.

And because hes had more success recently. Which hurts me because I do still have a spot in my heart for Contador as a rider, especially at the TDF which i desperately want him to win. But I watched a sad thing about a dog dying this morning, and I didn't change the channel even though it was depressing becuase a man should stand there and face it because that is life. And its the same here. It hurts me cos I think Froome is a particular type of *, especially with the animal cruelty, and though I wouldn't shake hands with Contador without counting my fingers I do wish him the success he seems unfortunately unable to capture and certainly would like to see him beat Froome.

But again, a man must stand there and no matter how sad it is, face it, so I speak what I see, Froome is better. Its sad, but la vie est ainsi.

Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

ooooh.
meiow.

What about last year?

Because I think that because of the way Contador built up his season this year they're not that comparable this year.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

not surprised that for some the way froome failed today is handled with an unconcealed relief. well, it's gotta be an interesting tour next year.

I don't understand why you have to turn a series of positive posts about Alberto into something negative about Froome?

oh, i was just being facetious.

Why didn't Contador reach that level this year? Because he conciously went into the Giro undercooked, still won it, despite all crashes, team disadvantage, etc. And then got 5th in a Tour despite being fried completely. Froome is fried completely, and loses 8 minutes today.

And PSM was also a matter of a lot of riders underperforming. Gesink power output wasn't unexpected, however his trainers believed he'd get 12th by climbing that speed.

foremost because there's no magical formula to reach peak conditions. you cannot know for sure the numbers you should push to win not thinking about how the opponents would go. every big rider strongly depends on rivals, their form and attendant circumstances. bertie, froome or nibali set a goal to hit the best possible form in order to perform as well as possible (read 'to win'). sometimes they succeed, sometimes they do not. that's a completely natural course of events in the era with 2-3-4 close top contenders.

i hold my conviction both giro-tour and tour-vuelta doubles are achievable, that just requires a guy who could overtop the rest of the field in climbing and tting but we don't have one nowadays

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

not surprised that for some the way froome failed today is handled with an unconcealed relief. well, it's gotta be an interesting tour next year.

I don't understand why you have to turn a series of positive posts about Alberto into something negative about Froome?

oh, i was just being facetious.

Ok fair enough

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hitch I agree with you that fans should support their favorite riders in good times and in bad times and I too am sad he hasn't performed as well as I would have wanted. But that is cycling and I feel you are being a tad too harsh on him.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

Yeah, only I didn't say that at all.

What I did was respond to people like yourself saying - "oh look Froome has also failed", with the observation that I don't think the situations are comparable.

Yes I do think Froome is more likely to win 2 gts in a row than Contador. Because of the immunity from fatigue he showed in 2013.

And because hes had more success recently. Which hurts me because I do still have a spot in my heart for Contador as a rider, especially at the TDF which i desperately want him to win. But I watched a sad thing about a dog dying this morning, and I didn't change the channel even though it was depressing becuase a man should stand there and face it because that is life. And its the same here. It hurts me cos I think Froome is a particular type of *, especially with the animal cruelty, and though I wouldn't shake hands with Contador without counting my fingers I do wish him the success he seems unfortunately unable to capture and certainly would like to see him beat Froome.

But again, a man must stand there and no matter how sad it is, face it, so I speak what I see, Froome is better. Its sad, but la vie est ainsi.

Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

ooooh.
meiow.

Froome won the tour because of a wind split and movies bad tactics. Qunitana was better.

Contador won the Giro taking on Astana "ALONE" a feat that Froome would not be able to match.

Bertie was obviously riding conservatively in the last week of the Giro. His 3rd week performance in the tour
proves how tough it is to do the double especially after racing a full on Astana.

We will have to see next year how Berties form is. But if its as good as 2014 then he will win the tour.


By the way , I have meet Bertie, shook his hand and had a chat " sort of language barrier" he was a very nice chap and I came away with all fingers intact and 2 signed posters ....

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

As a Contador fan, I hate to say it but if I were betting money on one single isolated GT with everyone targeting it equally, I'd pick Froome over Contador. However, I'm not sure I see the evidence that Froome is more likely to win two in a row than Contador. In fact, in a certain sense, Contador just did exactly that - won the Vuelta, then the Giro. What has Froome done to indicate that he is more likely to win two tours back to back? From what I've seen, he is able to reach a higher peak than others (the past 3 years, more or less), but he cannot hold that form as well or as long as Contador. In this Tour and his other Tour victory, he looked, well, much like Contador at the end of his Giro victory this year. I don't think it's a certainty that Quintana is significantly better than Aru, either.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

By the way , I have meet Bertie, shook his hand and had a chat " sort of language barrier" he was a very nice chap and I came away with all fingers intact and 2 signed posters ....

Great

 

[jens_attacks]

Some fellas thought that winning tour-vuelta is piece of cake
Ridiculous

The great one remains the great one

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

Yeah, only I didn't say that at all.

What I did was respond to people like yourself saying - "oh look Froome has also failed", with the observation that I don't think the situations are comparable.

Yes I do think Froome is more likely to win 2 gts in a row than Contador. Because of the immunity from fatigue he showed in 2013.

And because hes had more success recently. Which hurts me because I do still have a spot in my heart for Contador as a rider, especially at the TDF which i desperately want him to win. But I watched a sad thing about a dog dying this morning, and I didn't change the channel even though it was depressing becuase a man should stand there and face it because that is life. And its the same here. It hurts me cos I think Froome is a particular type of *, especially with the animal cruelty, and though I wouldn't shake hands with Contador without counting my fingers I do wish him the success he seems unfortunately unable to capture and certainly would like to see him beat Froome.

But again, a man must stand there and no matter how sad it is, face it, so I speak what I see, Froome is better. Its sad, but la vie est ainsi.

Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

ooooh.
meiow.

Froome won the tour because of a wind split and movies bad tactics. Qunitana was better.

No.

Contador won the Giro taking on Astana "ALONE" a feat that Froome would not be able to match.

So you say.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Some fellas thought that winning tour-vuelta is piece of cake
Ridiculous

The great one remains the great one

Some also thought winning the Giro-Tour was a piece of cake too.

I think nowadays with GT's raced so hard its becoming more and more difficult. You need a lot of luck and for rivals to be below par.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Some fellas thought that winning tour-vuelta is piece of cake
Ridiculous

The great one remains the great one

I called Contador that, before I even cheered for him, back in 2010.

Because he was quite simply, the best in the business, the world number 1. Like Federer in tennis a decade ago or Jordan in NBA 2 decades ago etc etc. He went into the race and it was different because it was the TDF champion and only guy to win all 3 and you knew that if he wanted to win the race you were just making up the numbers.

That just isn't the case anymore.

However I wouldn't say Froome is The Great One now. Its not like it was in 2010 with Contador - invincibility.

Just that Contador isn't it any longer.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Some fellas thought that winning tour-vuelta is piece of cake
Ridiculous

The great one remains the great one

I called Contador that, before I even cheered for him, back in 2010.

Because he was quite simply, the best in the business, the world number 1. Like Federer in tennis a decade ago or Jordan in NBA 2 decades ago etc etc. He went into the race and it was different because it was the TDF champion and only guy to win all 3 and you knew that if he wanted to win the race you were just making up the numbers.

That just isn't the case anymore.

However I wouldn't say Froome is The Great One now. Its not like it was in 2010 with Contador - invincibility.

Just that Contador isn't it any longer.

Because there was shity opposition except Schleck who raced only 2 races a year,not because he was lot better than nowadays.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Yes I think he's the best gt rider in the world right now. He proved it by winning the TDF this year and the last time he finished it as well.

You on the other hand basically wrote "pah he isn't that good, look at Froome he's way way better, what a magnificent rider is Froome, he could win 2 GTs in a row every time he wants" I would give a Skytroll crap for this so I am giving you crap for it too. Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

Yeah, only I didn't say that at all.

What I did was respond to people like yourself saying - "oh look Froome has also failed", with the observation that I don't think the situations are comparable.

Yes I do think Froome is more likely to win 2 gts in a row than Contador. Because of the immunity from fatigue he showed in 2013.

And because hes had more success recently. Which hurts me because I do still have a spot in my heart for Contador as a rider, especially at the TDF which i desperately want him to win. But I watched a sad thing about a dog dying this morning, and I didn't change the channel even though it was depressing becuase a man should stand there and face it because that is life. And its the same here. It hurts me cos I think Froome is a particular type of *, especially with the animal cruelty, and though I wouldn't shake hands with Contador without counting my fingers I do wish him the success he seems unfortunately unable to capture and certainly would like to see him beat Froome.

But again, a man must stand there and no matter how sad it is, face it, so I speak what I see, Froome is better. Its sad, but la vie est ainsi.

Take that **** where it belongs and I won't bother you.

ooooh.
meiow.

Froome won the tour because of a wind split and movies bad tactics. Qunitana was better.

No.

Contador won the Giro taking on Astana "ALONE" a feat that Froome would not be able to match.

So you say.

Yes I do. Did you watch the tour and see Froome getting dragged around by Thomas when he was in trouble?
Froome can only ride 1 way . That's behind his team then attack on the last climb. I don't recall Froome ever really laying it on the line from a long way out do you? He's a one mountain man.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Yes I do. Did you watch the tour and see Froome getting dragged around by Thomas when he was in trouble?
Froome can only ride 1 way . That's behind his team then attack on the last climb. I don't recall Froome ever really laying it on the line from a long way out do you? He's a one mountain man.

To be fair, it seems that way only because if he is in his top shape, he is just leagues above anyone else.

And he did attack from quite far out in last Vuelta when he was in subpar condition

 

[LanLions]

Re: Re:

Some fellas thought that winning tour-vuelta is piece of cake
Ridiculous

The great one remains the great one

I called Contador that, before I even cheered for him, back in 2010.

Because he was quite simply, the best in the business, the world number 1. Like Federer in tennis a decade ago or Jordan in NBA 2 decades ago etc etc. He went into the race and it was different because it was the TDF champion and only guy to win all 3 and you knew that if he wanted to win the race you were just making up the numbers.

That just isn't the case anymore.

However I wouldn't say Froome is The Great One now. Its not like it was in 2010 with Contador - invincibility.

Just that Contador isn't it any longer.

Because there was shity opposition except Schleck who raced only 2 races a year,not because he was lot better than nowadays.

Contador invincible in 2010? Did you watch that tour? I love Contador but Schleck was the better climber no doubt, watch stage 14, Contador did his best and even Menchov and Sanchez followed his attacks. I think if Schleck hadn't been waiting until the stage 15 he could have dropped Contador easy on that stage, you just need to watch without having a Pro-Contador mindset.. And I'm a big Contador fan btw

EDIT: This is the stage by the way, from Contador's second attack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvJkDkrYx9M

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Yes I do. Did you watch the tour and see Froome getting dragged around by Thomas when he was in trouble?
Froome can only ride 1 way . That's behind his team then attack on the last climb. I don't recall Froome ever really laying it on the line from a long way out do you? He's a one mountain man.

To be fair, it seems that way only because if he is in his top shape, he is just leagues above anyone else.

And he did attack from quite far out in last Vuelta when he was in subpar condition

Leagues above anyone else Like at the tour when he hung on for dear life after getting a beating from Quintana in the last week or are you talking about the dauphine where TJ dropped him or at the start of the year when Bertie beat him in a TT and dropped him from 10km out or do you want to go back to 2014 when Bertie kicked his a%% all year or do you want to go back to 2013 when he won the tour against sub par opposition. Froome is a great rider but
Leagues above anyone else ,don't make me laugh.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Yes I do. Did you watch the tour and see Froome getting dragged around by Thomas when he was in trouble?
Froome can only ride 1 way . That's behind his team then attack on the last climb. I don't recall Froome ever really laying it on the line from a long way out do you? He's a one mountain man.

To be fair, it seems that way only because if he is in his top shape, he is just leagues above anyone else.

And he did attack from quite far out in last Vuelta when he was in subpar condition

Leagues above anyone else Like at the tour when he hung on for dear life after getting a beating from Quintana in the last week or are you talking about the dauphine where TJ dropped him or at the start of the year when Bertie beat him in a TT and dropped him from 10km out or do you want to go back to 2014 when Bertie kicked his a%% all year or do you want to go back to 2013 when he won the tour against sub par opposition. Froome is a great rider but
Leagues above anyone else ,don't make me laugh.

Wait, who won the Tour?
The guy showed he is good on all terrains, has good tactical sense, destroyed everyone on first MTF, had huge gap in GC, and then just controlled the race, while having urine thrown at him and apparently getting sick. Did exactly the same in 2013. What else do you want?

And even though the other things you mentioned were prep races.......can you remind me who won them?