Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Let's just say he must be confusing Contador with Quintana. That's only explanation I can find to his nonsense right now.

I'll admit that it's probably not right to say that Contador can't keep his form for two weeks, and I think you're right, he is one of the most consistent GT riders.

It's just that his level isn't high enough anymore. Not to win the double, not to beat Froome.

So after putting all Froome's rivals in the same bag of bias, thinking they're all the same, now you moved on to Contador can't beat Froome?

Yes sir, that's what we saw in the Vuelta 12', and Vuelta 14'. Froome wasn't in top shape? Snap, Contador wasn't either in Tour 13' and 15'

Vuelta 14' was on equal ground though.

it's a logical deadlock as for most bertie fans he can't be defeated when on top form and it's the same when it comes to froome for fans that prefer him.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Let's just say he must be confusing Contador with Quintana. That's only explanation I can find to his nonsense right now.

I'll admit that it's probably not right to say that Contador can't keep his form for two weeks, and I think you're right, he is one of the most consistent GT riders.

It's just that his level isn't high enough anymore. Not to win the double, not to beat Froome.

So after putting all Froome's rivals in the same bag of bias, thinking they're all the same, now you moved on to Contador can't beat Froome?

Yes sir, that's what we saw in the Vuelta 12', and Vuelta 14'. Froome wasn't in top shape? Snap, Contador wasn't either in Tour 13' and 15'

I haven't "moved on" to anything. I'm commenting on the discussion I started out commenting: Who is more likely to do the double.

I have never seen your username before, so I don't know if you're a Contador fan, but if you are, that would explain some of your comments and behaviour in this discussion. I'm not gonna fall to the same level so I'm leaving the discussion now.

And another bias statement you always come across on this forum, "Oh you're a Contador fan so what you say doesn't mean jack sh,it"

Even though all I've done was stating FACTS. Lol. While you've been doing assumptions such as Froome has the best chance to do the double and Contador peaks for one week while Froome peaks for 2 weeks in GTs which is the biggest joke I've read for the last months.
Thanks for that

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Let's just say he must be confusing Contador with Quintana. That's only explanation I can find to his nonsense right now.

I'll admit that it's probably not right to say that Contador can't keep his form for two weeks, and I think you're right, he is one of the most consistent GT riders.

It's just that his level isn't high enough anymore. Not to win the double, not to beat Froome.

So after putting all Froome's rivals in the same bag of bias, thinking they're all the same, now you moved on to Contador can't beat Froome?

Yes sir, that's what we saw in the Vuelta 12', and Vuelta 14'. Froome wasn't in top shape? Snap, Contador wasn't either in Tour 13' and 15'

I haven't "moved on" to anything. I'm commenting on the discussion I started out commenting: Who is more likely to do the double.

I have never seen your username before, so I don't know if you're a Contador fan, but if you are, that would explain some of your comments and behaviour in this discussion. I'm not gonna fall to the same level so I'm leaving the discussion now.

And another bias statement you always come across on this forum, "Oh you're a Contador fan so what you say doesn't mean jack sh,it"

Even though all I've done was stating FACTS. Lol. While you've been doing assumptions such as Froome has the best chance to do the double and Contador peaks for one week while Froome peaks for 2 weeks in GTs which is the biggest joke I've read for the last months.
Thanks for that

As mentioned, I'm not gonna comment on the other part of your post, but regarding the bolded part that's not what I meant nor wrote.

What I meant was that if you're a Contador fan that would explain why you took my statements so personal and why you reacted in not very nice way.

And by the way, I'm a big fan of Contador myself.

 

[BlurryVII]

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

 

[dacooley]

Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

you have the only metronome - bertie, all the other are overrated and this way of thinking completely kills any kind of rational discussion in a flash.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

you have the only metronome - bertie, all the other are overrated and this way of thinking completely kills any kind of rational discussion in a flash.

You got it, I'll be right and you'll be wrong as long as you know AC has 4.5 times the number of GT Froome won.

 

[Miburo]

Contador 2011 had way less competition than froome now has.

Thus making it way easier to do a double back then. I still think that if Contador had no bad luck in the tour of 2011, he could have won it.

Anyways look who contador faced and who froome is facing now.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

Good, so what's your point? You're still far off from proving Froome can do the double.

Good to learn that the Giro 15' was a walk in the park for Contador and Astana was everything but a threat. I'm sure people will have a say about that.

 

[Miburo]

Contador was pretty damn good in the beginning of the tour of 2011, look at the mur de bretagne. Should have beaten an Evans who was known to be really good at that (and gilbert).

The crash affected him heavily i think. He had to recover from that for a few days ago and than he had that bad day at the galibier.

Anyway coulda shoulda i guess

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

you have the only metronome - bertie, all the other are overrated and this way of thinking completely kills any kind of rational discussion in a flash.

Is criticising Contador fans with hyperbolic generalisations the only thing you ever do?

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

you have the only metronome - bertie, all the other are overrated and this way of thinking completely kills any kind of rational discussion in a flash.

You got it, I'll be right and you'll be wrong as long as you know AC has 4.5 times the number of GT Froome won.

you hit the same wall with serious sam million times and you are clearly not willing to see it again. the talk is about the present day of cycling, not about by how many gt wins bertie is ahead of quintana, nibali or anyone else.

Is criticising Contador fans with hyperbolic generalisations the only thing you ever do?

i referred it only to blurry. either way accept my sincere apology

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

you have the only metronome - bertie, all the other are overrated and this way of thinking completely kills any kind of rational discussion in a flash.

You got it, I'll be right and you'll be wrong as long as you know AC has 4.5 times the number of GT Froome won.

you hit the same wall with serious sam million times and you are clearly not willing to see it again. the talk is about the present day of cycling, not about by how many gt wins bertie is ahead of quintana, nibali or anyone else.

The present day lol. Great, please keep up, what's your opinion about the present day of cycling then?

 

[harryh]

Let the best man win the biggest and most important GT. Chris or Bertie, not so important to me 'cause both of them are great riders, but for the guys like FlurryVII I really hope that it will be 2013 and 2015 again (and again (and again) = 5)

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

Good, so what's your point? You're still far off from proving Froome can do the double.

Good to learn that the Giro 15' was a walk in the park for Contador and Astana was everything but a threat. I'm sure people will have a say about that.

Do you even read what I write? I never said that I think that Froome can do the double - quite the opposite: I said that I think it's highly unlikely.

I can't prove that Froome can do the double. I can only speculate - just like you. Once again, I think that Froome is more likely to do the double than Contador for the reasons I've already mentioned, but can repeat here:

1) Contador is declining and has attempted and failed a double twice.
2) Froome is a better GT rider and could still be improving.

As I've also said, I can understand why this is debatable, and I can understand why some would back Contador for the double over Froome - but I'm of the opposite opinion. The one thing I can't understand is why some can say that Contador is as good a GT rider as Froome is (at the moment - I don't care if Contador won 3 GT's 8 years ago). If you really think that, you should go bet some money on it as you have a very different opinion than the people in the cycling business that know the most about cycling: the bookmakers.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

Good, so what's your point? You're still far off from proving Froome can do the double.

Good to learn that the Giro 15' was a walk in the park for Contador and Astana was everything but a threat. I'm sure people will have a say about that.

Do you even read what I write? I never said that I think that Froome can do the double - quite the opposite: I said that I think it's highly unlikely.

As I've also said, I can understand why this is debatable, and I can understand why some would back Contador for the double over Froome - but I'm of the opposite opinion. The one thing I can't understand is why some can say that Contador is as good a GT rider as Froome is (at the moment - I don't care if Contador won 3 GT's 8 years ago). If you really think that, you should go bet some money on it as you have a very different opinion than the people in the cycling business that know the most about cycling: the bookmakers.

Oh I'm not the only one who thinks that Contador is at least as good as Froome, don't worry about that.

Bookmakers will always favor Froome because he has won the Tour twice in recent years, they work like bots who only take the results into accounts. But by any means, that doesn't make him a better GT rider than Contador because the latter has come across bad circumstances for the Tour. And has, in one way or another, not been able to hit top form at the Tour. (Giro and off season. )

For example, even if Contador happened to crush Froome all season long this year, bookmarkers would still put Froome as favorite for the Tour because he is the defending winner. It's just dumb really.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The bookmakers don't know the most about cycling at all, they just use mainstream cycling media as their guide, how else can real cycling fans win so much money by betting

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why the hell would we have to mention 3 of Contador's wins 8 years ago (although it is a nice reminder of how legendary and how far ahead of Froome he is) when he won 2 GTs in the last 2 years which by the way is more than Froome

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

The bookmakers don't know the most about cycling at all, they just use mainstream cycling media as their guide, how else can real cycling fans win so much money by betting

Oh sure, there are some who makes money on cycling and hence knows more than the bookmakers. But generally speaking the bookies' odds are the best guideline.

And there's just no chance that Contador is actually a favorite over Froome when they all agree that Froome is in the 2.1-2.5 range and Contador is in the 4.5-5.5 range.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

Why the hell would we have to mention 3 of Contador's wins 8 years ago (although it is a nice reminder of how legendary and how far ahead of Froome he is) when he won 2 GTs in the last 2 years which by the way is more than Froome

Try asking Contador on Twitter if he would trade his 3 GT victories since his return for Froome's 2 Tour victories

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

By the way, Froome has already tried riding 2 GTs in a row in 2012, ended 10 minutes off Contador at the Vuelta. Fact.

Whilst never going 100% at the Tour, having to slow down for Wiggins. Quite a big difference from Contador racing on the hardest route of the last decade in the Giro 2011 and then deciding to go at the Tour 11 at the last moment after being cleared.

And in 2015 alone against the Astana Army.

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

Good, so what's your point? You're still far off from proving Froome can do the double.

Good to learn that the Giro 15' was a walk in the park for Contador and Astana was everything but a threat. I'm sure people will have a say about that.

Do you even read what I write? I never said that I think that Froome can do the double - quite the opposite: I said that I think it's highly unlikely.

As I've also said, I can understand why this is debatable, and I can understand why some would back Contador for the double over Froome - but I'm of the opposite opinion. The one thing I can't understand is why some can say that Contador is as good a GT rider as Froome is (at the moment - I don't care if Contador won 3 GT's 8 years ago). If you really think that, you should go bet some money on it as you have a very different opinion than the people in the cycling business that know the most about cycling: the bookmakers.

Oh I'm not the only one who thinks that Contador is at least as good as Froome, don't worry about that.

Bookmakers will always favor Froome because he has won the Tour twice in recent years, they work like bots who only take the results into accounts. But by any means, that doesn't make him a better GT rider than Contador because the latter has come across bad circumstances for the Tour. And has, in one way or another, not been able to hit top form at the Tour. (Giro and off season. )

For example, even if Contador happened to crush Froome all season long this year, bookmarkers would still put Froome as favorite for the Tour because he is the defending winner. It's just dumb really.

Not saying that bookmakers know the most about cycling, that's completely wrong. However, your last sentence is also completely wrong. (Just look at the 2013 pre-TdF odds in that case: a 0 time GT winner favourite against a 5 time GT winner)

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

10 minutes? That's the same amount of time that Contador ended off Froome in last year's Tour, right?

And the Astana army? You mean Landa who never finished top 20 in a GT before and wasn't allowed to attack and Aru who rode for second place?

Good, so what's your point? You're still far off from proving Froome can do the double.

Good to learn that the Giro 15' was a walk in the park for Contador and Astana was everything but a threat. I'm sure people will have a say about that.

Do you even read what I write? I never said that I think that Froome can do the double - quite the opposite: I said that I think it's highly unlikely.

As I've also said, I can understand why this is debatable, and I can understand why some would back Contador for the double over Froome - but I'm of the opposite opinion. The one thing I can't understand is why some can say that Contador is as good a GT rider as Froome is (at the moment - I don't care if Contador won 3 GT's 8 years ago). If you really think that, you should go bet some money on it as you have a very different opinion than the people in the cycling business that know the most about cycling: the bookmakers.

Oh I'm not the only one who thinks that Contador is at least as good as Froome, don't worry about that.

Bookmakers will always favor Froome because he has won the Tour twice in recent years, they work like bots who only take the results into accounts. But by any means, that doesn't make him a better GT rider than Contador because the latter has come across bad circumstances for the Tour. And has, in one way or another, not been able to hit top form at the Tour. (Giro and off season. )

For example, even if Contador happened to crush Froome all season long this year, bookmarkers would still put Froome as favorite for the Tour because he is the defending winner. It's just dumb really.

Not saying that bookmakers know the most about cycling, that's completely wrong. However, your last sentence is also completely wrong. (Just look at the 2013 pre-TdF odds in that case: a 0 time GT winner favourite against a 5 time GT winner)

It's not completely wrong. There are some (A few? Who knows how many?) that make money betting on cycling but there are two reasons why the bookmakers make money:

1) Less than 100% ROI
2) Knowledge of cycling

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The bookmakers don't know the most about cycling at all, they just use mainstream cycling media as their guide, how else can real cycling fans win so much money by betting

Oh sure, there are some who makes money on cycling and hence knows more than the bookmakers. But generally speaking the bookies' odds are the best guideline.

And there's just no chance that Contador is actually a favorite over Froome when they all agree that Froome is in the 2.1-2.5 range and Contador is in the 4.5-5.5 range.

Contador was 8-9 a few months ago so clearly lots of people are betting on him and exploiting the bookmakers' idiocy. Like I said the bookmakers know nothing they just follow the mainstream media. If we would start a thread hyping Gesink for the Tour and we'd make it go viral on social media his odds would shorten tremendously. Who the hell cares who is the favorite for the main stream media, in the end what they are just people like us with an opinion and the opinions of the fans and media and idiotic bookmakers don't mean anything only the riders' SHAPE matters. Don't bore me with this horsesh*t about bookmakers I've heard enough of that crap from that troll SeriousSam. If I read the word bookmakers one more time I swear I'll jump out the window.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Not saying that bookmakers know the most about cycling, that's completely wrong. However, your last sentence is also completely wrong. (Just look at the 2013 pre-TdF odds in that case: a 0 time GT winner favourite against a 5 time GT winner)

Of course you're gonna find examples to counter what I said, but I have examples as well. Some years, they can be accurate, some others, it's just bull,***.

I'm just saying that using Bookmakers to justify that Froome is the best GT rider, is laughable. There are circumstances that happened to Contador as long as the Tour is concerned.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

The bookmakers don't know the most about cycling at all, they just use mainstream cycling media as their guide, how else can real cycling fans win so much money by betting

And there's just no chance that Contador is actually a favorite over Froome when they all agree that Froome is in the 2.1-2.5 range and Contador is in the 4.5-5.5 range.

Obviously it's gonna be that way, Contador hasn't won the Tour in 5 years . But those who followed his career know the reasons behind it.