Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Jelantik]

Re:

Alberto fight really hard but the recovery is probably really bad.

I would love to see him win a stage or at least finish Tour with head high. I dont really care about another Vuelta (or Giro) and with Valverde (Purito) in olympic team there is no chance for leadership.

hear, hear. 100+. win as a champion and loose as a champion. Even Lemond was disappointed with Pinot because he gave up his GC that easy. Lemond lost 5 minutes and took it back. Not that I''m hoping for a miracle judging how Alberto's luck isn't so rosy, at least TDF now is about him vs himself. Maybe any of us never understand, but if he wants to stay on the Tour, I will cheer him. If he decides to quit, I will cheer him too. Because I've never know how hard it is for him to prepare meticulously all year long, just to be denied ... again with bad luck. With injured body and ... again .. he has to watch helplessly anyone who he can out climb w/ one leg stuck on his ass leaving him on the dust. That's is really difficult to see.

 

[Jelantik]

interesting story about rider who got beaten will never come back to win Tour again. So if Alberto can win it next year or before he retires, he definitely rewrites the history. That's some challenge to conquer.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/history-crashes-working-against-contador-in-france_413800

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Alberto said he waits the rest day and then decide what to do .

But what can he do ? If he does not want to retire and as the polka-dot jersey is goal of Rafall , he can only point to the stages . But to do this is to go off the charts because they i do not see him defeating quintana or froome in a head to head

Lose 20 minutes so he can go in the BOD and win the stage that's how. Plus win the stage 18 TT .

Heyyyy, THIS IS CONTADOR!!! He doesn't fight for stage wins. He is at least top5 in every race he enters

Well he's injured so he doesn't have many options here...... A stage Win is a Win and is better then a lousy top 10.

I agree. Contador hasn't won any stage since 2013 TDF. So winning a stage is at least a good starting point for his next year attempt to win TDF. What I'm saying is that, Contador TDF campaign has never been good or lucky since 2013. I don't know if the mother nature or the mother luck has denied him in the last 4 TDF. (remember Amstrong crashed all the time on his last TDF, practically denied to contest anything. So luck was not on his side). So getting the first taste of win (even if it's a stage win) at TDF is not a bad thing. Maybe it's a bit underneath compare to what he can do for some of you in the forum. But well, based on history, all TDF winners always wins at least a stage. Today Froome won one. So if history repeats, he is on his way to win another TDF. (but who knows) - well I'm digressing. And of course I'm not saying it's a sure thing (so stop giving me the history lesson).

Back to Contador, I'm just saying his luck hasn't never been good (except 2015/2013 - that's his own doing). So if he recovers, he can use TDF as a training instead of training by himself. He seems to always need a race speed to get his rhythm back. And a stage win won't be a bad idea. Again, at least try to win something at TDF. I'm dying to see him winning something at TDF (been long due). Seems that it's getting harder for him to even get one.

So now Contador has become a stage hunter ? If he completes the Tour the Vuelta will be harder for him. As a GT winner who sees second place as a failure he is better to let his injuries heal and be fresh for the Vuelta before the Tour gets much harder as it will. A win in the Vuelta or a podium is better than a top 20 in the Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So now Contador has become a stage hunter ? If he completes the Tour the Vuelta will be harder for him. As a GT winner who sees second place as a failure he is better to let his injuries heal and be fresh for the Vuelta before the Tour gets much harder as it will. A win in the Vuelta or a podium is better than a top 20 in the Tour.

Exactly. He is too proud to quit if he feels he can continue but it would be smarter to abandon. If he finishes the race it's very unlikely he'll win a GT this year. That would put this year on par with 2013, arguably his least successful year since 2004. He deserves more for all the hard work he's put into this season.
Also, I hope people now realize why I get upset when he narrowly misses out on the win in one-week stage races: those races can be the difference between a disappointing season and an absolute waste of time and effort.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So now Contador has become a stage hunter ? If he completes the Tour the Vuelta will be harder for him. As a GT winner who sees second place as a failure he is better to let his injuries heal and be fresh for the Vuelta before the Tour gets much harder as it will. A win in the Vuelta or a podium is better than a top 20 in the Tour.

He hasn't won a TdF stage for seven years. An epic mountain victory, especially given the adversity he has suffered this edition, would be a great achievement and would show that he is still a top rider, perhaps more so than quiting and doing well in a Vuelta with poor competition. A bit like how Nibali managed to salvage his terrible Tour last year with a great solo win.

 

[portugal11]

What a illusional people... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTADOR, how the hell is a stage win important to contador, wven if was a epic one? We are talking about the best gt rider of the last 30 years (sorry to indurain fans)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He hasn't won a TdF stage for seven years. An epic mountain victory, especially given the adversity he has suffered this edition, would be a great achievement and would show that he is still a top rider, perhaps more so than quiting and doing well in a Vuelta with poor competition. A bit like how Nibali managed to salvage his terrible Tour last year with a great solo win.

You forget 1 thing: he'll have to earn every single second of advantage because Sky and especially Movistar won't allow him even 1 meter. With his injuries, I highly doubt he'll be strong enough to win a stage. He doesn't seem to have recovered much since Sunday - once the group accelerates he cannot push the necessary power output.
He sits on his bike lopsidedly and can hardly use his left leg. Continuing to push on could cause a lot of long-term damage to his body. His injuries need to heal.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What a illusional people... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTADOR, how the hell is a stage win important to contador, wven if was a epic one? We are talking about the best gt rider of the last 30 years (sorry to indurain fans)

Agree with you, a stage win would just be a band-aid on a big, gaping wound. It wouldn't mean anything to him. He is here to win the race, anything else is a failure in his eyes.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

What a illusional people... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTADOR, how he hell is a stage win important to contador, wven if was a epic one? We are talking about the best gt rider of the last 30 years (sorry to indurain fans)

He's only won three Tour stages in his whole career (one more than Steve Cummings) and all of those were pre-ban. He's basically done nothing in the TdF since 2010 - at least an epic mountain stage win would be something for the highlights reel and would be a notable achievement for the second part of his career.

Right now at his age, this is probably his level when up against the best in the world (i.e. in the Tour). Fighting for a top 5 GC and winning the odd stage. Sure, he could quit and go to the Vuelta and finish on the podium, maybe even win it. But against a sub-par field and riders who are tired from the Tour/Olympics - what is that really worth? It's just padding out his palmares with quantity but not quality. Far better to get a memorable result in the Tour, against the best riders in the world on top form.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He hasn't won a TdF stage for seven years. An epic mountain victory, especially given the adversity he has suffered this edition, would be a great achievement and would show that he is still a top rider, perhaps more so than quiting and doing well in a Vuelta with poor competition. A bit like how Nibali managed to salvage his terrible Tour last year with a great solo win.

You forget 1 thing: he'll have to earn every single second of advantage because Sky and especially Movistar won't allow him even 1 meter. With his injuries, I highly doubt he'll be strong enough to win a stage. He doesn't seem to have recovered much since Sunday - once the group accelerates he cannot push the necessary power output.
He sits on his bike lopsidedly and can hardly use his left leg. Continuing to push on could cause a lot of long-term damage to his body. His injuries need to heal.

This is kind of the point. Because he would have to earn it against the best riders in the world, it would be an epic win. They won't give him any gifts, so it will prove he can still climb with the best on his day. It would prove far more than quitting and trying to grab a podium at the Vuelta imo.

You're right about the injury, but he could easily sit at the back, even ride in the Gruppetto for a week if he has to while he recovers. Then go for a memorable long ranger in the third week.

 

[Kokoso]

I've noticed is that Alberto often doesn't pick wheel of his helping teammate. Yesterday is was apparent with Majka who tried to lead Contador who ingnored him completely. In the past it was the same with Kreuziger. The same with Sagan in finishes - his fans often blame lack of team support but he rarely pickes wheel of his teammate too. I believe that may be demoralizing for their teammates.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He's only won three Tour stages in his whole career (one more than Steve Cummings) and all of those were pre-ban. He's basically done nothing in the TdF since 2010 - at least an epic mountain stage win would be something for the highlights reel and would be a notable achievement for the second part of his career.

Man, you've not really been paying attention if you feel a stage win would be a notable achievement for him.

Right now at his age, this is probably his level when up against the best in the world (i.e. in the Tour). Fighting for a top 5 GC and winning the odd stage.

Riders like Mollema fight for the top 5. If you believe that is Contador's level, again, you must have had your attention focused on something else. He would have fought for the win if not for his crashes. If he can reach that level again next year, at 34, remains to be seen.

Sure, he could quit and go to the Vuelta and finish on the podium, maybe even win it. But against a sub-par field and riders who are tired from the Tour/Olympics - what is that really worth? It's just padding out his palmares with quantity but not quality. Far better to get a memorable result in the Tour, against the best riders in the world on top form.

A Vuelta win would add more quality to his palmares than a Tour stage win, especially if you consider 1 or 2 stage wins at the Vuelta that could come with it. Winning a stage, with his palmares, now that is the ultimate definition of adding quantity instead of quality.
You mentioned Nibali last year. While that win definitely salvaged his Tour a bit, if you'd ask me what I remember of his career, that win definitely wouldn't be among the first 10 things I mention. His Lombardia win, all hos GT wins, his stage win in the snow on Tre Cime, his daredevil descents, him getting caught with the finish in sight in LBL. Not a random stage win, however impressive it might have been.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He's only won three Tour stages in his whole career (one more than Steve Cummings) and all of those were pre-ban. He's basically done nothing in the TdF since 2010 - at least an epic mountain stage win would be something for the highlights reel and would be a notable achievement for the second part of his career.

Man, you've not really been paying attention if you feel a stage win would be a notable achievement for him.

Right now at his age, this is probably his level when up against the best in the world (i.e. in the Tour). Fighting for a top 5 GC and winning the odd stage.

Riders like Mollema fight for the top 5. If you believe that is Contador's level, again, you must have had your attention focused on something else. He would have fought for the win if not for his crashes. If he can reach that level again next year, at 34, remains to be seen.

Sure, he could quit and go to the Vuelta and finish on the podium, maybe even win it. But against a sub-par field and riders who are tired from the Tour/Olympics - what is that really worth? It's just padding out his palmares with quantity but not quality. Far better to get a memorable result in the Tour, against the best riders in the world on top form.

A Vuelta win would add more quality to his palmares than a Tour stage win, especially if you consider 1 or 2 stage wins at the Vuelta that could come with it. Winning a stage, with his palmares, now that is the ultimate definition of adding quantity instead of quality.
You mentioned Nibali last year. While that win definitely salvaged his Tour a bit, if you'd ask me what I remember of his career, that win definitely wouldn't be among the first 10 things I mention. His Lombardia win, all hos GT wins, his stage win in the snow on Tre Cime, his daredevil descents, him getting caught with the finish in sight in LBL. Not a random stage win, however impressive it might have been.

Fair enough. I can't really argue with that, I guess it just depends on how you view things. For me, I'd really like him to at least get something more from the Tour before he retires. Like it or not, it's the biggest race with the highest level of competition - and he's really underperformed there in recent years. I genuinely don't think he can compete with Froome or Quintana on top form over three weeks any more - so would love to see him lighting up the race with some epic long range solo wins.

Of course a Vuelta win would be good as well, but, if it came on the back of quitting the Tour, he would have such an advantage over other riders there that it would feel a bit hollow.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

This is kind of the point. Because he would have to earn it against the best riders in the world, it would be an epic win. They won't give him any gifts, so it will prove he can still climb with the best on his day. It would prove far more than quitting and trying to grab a podium at the Vuelta imo.

But do you not agree that it is highly unlikely he will be able to outclimb the very best while he is injured?

You're right about the injury, but he could easily sit at the back, even ride in the Gruppetto for a week if he has to while he recovers. Then go for a memorable long ranger in the third week.

But if he rides in the gruppetto, no one will consider a potential stage win to be proof that he can still climb with the best because he would be so far behind on GC that the others might as well not give a *** about him.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This is kind of the point. Because he would have to earn it against the best riders in the world, it would be an epic win. They won't give him any gifts, so it will prove he can still climb with the best on his day. It would prove far more than quitting and trying to grab a podium at the Vuelta imo.

But do you not agree that it is highly unlikely he will be able to outclimb the very best while he is injured?

You're right about the injury, but he could easily sit at the back, even ride in the Gruppetto for a week if he has to while he recovers. Then go for a memorable long ranger in the third week.

But if he rides in the gruppetto, no one will consider a potential stage win to be proof that he can still climb with the best because he would be so far behind on GC that the others might as well not give a **** about him.

Yeah, I guess that's all true. I just would really like him to get something out of the Tour. I don't really care so much about palmares for GT riders because it's kind of easy for good ones to pick and choose races to pad it out. For me, what matters more is the memorable moments. Contador's attack in 2011, for example, was the highlight of the race and he didn't even win the stage. I'd much rather see him doing things like that than grinding out another podium at the vuelta.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I've noticed is that Alberto often doesn't pick wheel of his helping teammate. Yesterday is was apparent with Majka who tried to lead Contador who ingnored him completely. In the past it was the same with Kreuziger. The same with Sagan in finishes - his fans often blame lack of team support but he rarely pickes wheel of his teammate too. I believe that may be demoralizing for their teammates.

Yes, he always loses his teammates' wheel and for me as a fan that is extremely frustrating, especially during sprint stages. On mountain stages it is not such a big issue but I've seen him drift back through the peloton on flat stages so many times, with his teammates still at the front, unaware that he is no longer on their wheel.

 

[lenric]

Remarkable stage wins are important for riders who can't be glorified for something bigger. Everyone remembers Rolland's win stage at the Tour some years ago, because there's probably nothing else in his curriculum that can be accounted for (apart from a 4th place in il Giro).
Few remember that Contador won a ITT in the 2009's Tour against the likes of Cancellara and Wiggins.
And is it that important for a rider like Contador to win a really important stage in this Tour against Froome/Quintana, knowing that he's a gazillion of minutes behind them, so he has more liberty to do that? I doubt. If I were him, I wouldn't be very happy. In fact, I'd feel humiliated.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I guess that's all true. I just would really like him to get something out of the Tour. I don't really care so much about palmares for GT riders because it's kind of easy for good ones to pick and choose races to pad it out. For me, what matters more is the memorable moments. Contador's attack in 2011, for example, was the highlight of the race and he didn't even win the stage. I'd much rather see him doing things like that than grinding out another podium at the vuelta.

I see your point, but I don't agree. That's fair enough, though
As for 2011, surely stage 18 was, objectively, the highlight of the race, not stage 19

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Remarkable stage wins are important for riders who can't be glorified for something bigger. Everyone remembers Rolland's win stage at the Tour some years ago, because there's probably nothing else in his curriculum that can be accounted for (apart from a 4th place in il Giro).
Few remember that Contador won a ITT in the 2009's Tour against the likes of Cancellara and Wiggins.
And is it that important for a rider like Contador to win a really important stage in this Tour against Froome/Quintana, knowing that he's a gazillion of minutes behind them, so he has more liberty to do that? I doubt. If I were him, I wouldn't be very happy. In fact, I'd feel humiliated.

I see it a bit differently. For me, great riders leave their mark on the biggest race in some way. If they aren't in the shape to win it, they should try to podium. If they don't have that shape they should go for an epic stage win. If they can't win a stage, then at least go for an entertaining attack.

What great riders don't do is quit, skulk off to a race with easier competition and grab a hollow victory there to pad out their palmares.

 

[lenric]

We're looking at the same thing through different perspectives. I'm looking rationally (in the sense of one more GT vs one more stage win), you're looking at this emotionally (how he can make people feel, etc). Both are valid opinions whatsoever. Cheers and let's just hope that he doesn't regret any decision he's about to make in the next days.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yeah, I guess that's all true. I just would really like him to get something out of the Tour. I don't really care so much about palmares for GT riders because it's kind of easy for good ones to pick and choose races to pad it out. For me, what matters more is the memorable moments. Contador's attack in 2011, for example, was the highlight of the race and he didn't even win the stage. I'd much rather see him doing things like that than grinding out another podium at the vuelta.

I see your point, but I don't agree. That's fair enough, though
As for 2011, surely stage 18 was, objectively, the highlight of the race, not stage 19

Yeah, that's probably right. It was just that moment though when I think Contador was virtual leader on the road, or at least very close to being it. Evans wasn't chasing and the Schleck's were a bit tired from the previous day, and there was just a glimmer of hope that Contador could do something even more epic than Landis did. If only he would have had 2009 form for that one stage, he might have been able to do it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Remarkable stage wins are important for riders who can't be glorified for something bigger. Everyone remembers Rolland's win stage at the Tour some years ago, because there's probably nothing else in his curriculum that can be accounted for (apart from a 4th place in il Giro).
Few remember that Contador won a ITT in the 2009's Tour against the likes of Cancellara and Wiggins.
And is it that important for a rider like Contador to win a really important stage in this Tour against Froome/Quintana, knowing that he's a gazillion of minutes behind them, so he has more liberty to do that? I doubt. If I were him, I wouldn't be very happy. In fact, I'd feel humiliated.

I see it a bit differently. For me, great riders leave their mark on the biggest race in some way. If they aren't in the shape to win it, they should try to podium. If they don't have that shape they should go for an epic stage win. If they can't win a stage, then at least go for an entertaining attack.

What great riders don't do is quit, skulk off to a race with easier competition and grab a hollow victory there to pad out their palmares.

It's not a case of shape, though. If he was just in bad shape, yes, he should stick around and make the best of it, even if that means achieving absolutely nothing like in 2013 and 2015.
This time, he was in good shape and probably could have achieved quite a bit, had he not crashed. He is injured and he's doing even worse than in 2013 and 2015. He's 20th on GC. He's over 3 minutes behind while pretty much all major contenders are still on the same time. It should be obvious that he's not going to achieve anything. Maybe he'll get slightly better in the final week and climb into the top-10 and finish 5th or 6th on 1 or 2 stages. He'll attack from a long ways out only to be caught again by a Sky or Movistar train 5 minutes later. Is that the mark of a great champion?
It makes no sense to ride on, waste his good form and potentially do long-term damage to his body only because he is too proud and stubborn to give up.

 

[spalco]

Re:

What a illusional people... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTADOR, how the hell is a stage win important to contador, wven if was a epic one? We are talking about the best gt rider of the last 30 years (sorry to indurain fans)

I think that's a slightly arrogant point of view.

Contador is a champion, yes, but everyone gets older and slower eventually.
I don't know if it's time for him yet to accept he doesn't have it anymore (won the Giro last year after all), but when it is, I think I think there's dignity in changing roles even for someone like him - helping a younger GC talent on his team, going for stage wins, or maybe the climber's jersey.

Imo it's not necessary to quit while on top like Indurain to protect one's legacy.

 

[Matteo.]

I agree with Lenric.
As Nibali won the stage of the croix de fer, he has done good work, and all I want ..but we can say that defeated Froome and Quintana that day? NO, because they let him go because off the charts.
Same thing for Alberto, if in the Alps he win a stage it's because he went on the run from a distance with the '' blessing '' of others because he was not a danger. and this ultimately adds nothing extraordinary to its season or to his character
Unfortunately, in these conditions, I do not see, from here in a week, battling head to head with them and beat them

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

What a illusional people... WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTADOR, how the hell is a stage win important to contador, wven if was a epic one? We are talking about the best gt rider of the last 30 years (sorry to indurain fans)

I think that's a slightly arrogant point of view.

Contador is a champion, yes, but everyone gets older and slower eventually.
I don't know if it's time for him yet to accept he doesn't have it anymore (won the Giro last year after all), but when it is, I think I think there's dignity in changing roles even for someone like him - helping a younger GC talent on his team, going for stage wins, or maybe the climber's jersey.

Imo it's not necessary to quit while on top like Indurain to protect one's legacy.

This is not just his fans' view, Alberto himself even said that he will retire once he feels he is too "old and slow" to win the Tour, so clearly he doesn't feel much for changing roles.
If that makes him arrogant, so be it.