Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[movingtarget]

Re:

Nothing to do with hope and belief. You wanna do the stats with me? Contador had his second best dauphine in his career, knowing the field.

It was better than '10 (despite winning 2 stages, but he faced brajkovic and did a terrible ITT) and '09.

There's only one year where he didnt improve after the dauphine and that was in 2013. In all the other dauphines he improved a lot for the tour.

Way more than the likes of Porte and Froome. And Contador was at least at Porte's level in the dauphine, doing better than porte in 3 of the 4 big tests in the dauphine.

And Contador's recovery is a million times better than Porte in a GT. Porte was the second best GT rider in the tour.

So what dream am i talking about?

Oh yea Contador was 2nd in the UCI ranking. Come on let's have a discussion, what do you've to say to counter my argument?

One week form does not always convert to three week form. The whole argument about Porte before this race was that he was strong over one week but did not have it for a three week race. Is Contador's recovery a million times better than Porte at this stage of his career ? I think you are underestimating Porte's performance and also Froome's and his team's. Does anyone really believe that Contador will win another Tour ?

Every year since 2010 we have heard why Contador did not make the podium, what should have happened and what could have happened. I have no doubt Contador would have been in the GC battle but it's all history now just like Mollema's and Porte's bad luck and Quintana's lack of strength. I would like to see the four of them return to the Tour next year with good form and more luck but I still don't think Contador will beat Froome in the Tour and likely no one else will either unless Froome is the one to have the change in fortune next time which is always possible in bike racing. Armstrong went seven Tours with one crash and then in his last Tour he had four. Froome had two this year but luckily was able to continue. That said Contador should win the Vuelta.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

Compare the differences in climbing times. It's obvious who of the two that improve the most.

 

[Miburo]

It was Contador's plan to do the giro at like 90% and get to the tour at 100%.

He had experience doing it and last time it wasn't planned at all yet he did pretty well. And the year before that, in 2014, contador was maybe at his best ever. And the tour was made for him and Contador proved to be the better man than froome in 2014 besides Froome wasn't that great in 2015 before the tour. Contador has also a better record than froome in back to back GT's.

Of course i wasn't completely objective, but this is a different matter. Froome isn't doing a specific preparation for the vuelta, not even close.

 

[KGB]

Re:

Contador is training like a madman right now, this vuelta is gonna be good

The tour ratings dropped hard this year, no surprise. If Contador was there, nothing would have been dropped.

Does he train how to stay on the bike?That is his biggest issue for a few years.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Contador is training like a madman right now, this vuelta is gonna be good

The tour ratings dropped hard this year, no surprise. If Contador was there, nothing would have been dropped.

Does he train how to stay on the bike?That is his biggest issue for a few years.

I hear 2009 Bertie is back

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Contador is training like a madman right now, this vuelta is gonna be good

The tour ratings dropped hard this year, no surprise. If Contador was there, nothing would have been dropped.

Does he train how to stay on the bike?That is his biggest issue for a few years.

he is working on his upper body strength.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Come on dacooley, answer to my other post. Let's talk about it, or what excuse are you gonna use mate?

Dacooley has a point. It's getting tiresome.
I think that Contador at the Tour would've completely changed the race, but it doesn't matter because he crashed out....unfortunately.
Now making bold claims that if Contador didnt crash he would've crushed the Tour etc. Is all rather pointless since we will never know. Then going on flaming other riders while boasting Contador while he didnt show anything (due to circumstances) is quite a bit lame imo.

It really sucks that Alberto crashed out in 2014 and 2016 as it leaves a lot of question marks and he never got the chance to show himself at his best level at the Tdf after 2010. Bloody shame.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

I think Froome certainly had the odds on him winning, but looking back at this TdF then I certainly gave Contador a 40% chance. Not like it matters though, but if we are going to speculate.

Froome was good at the TT's and there is plenty of reason to think Contador would've been great at them as well. It were perfect TTs for him as well, allthough the wind during the first probably favoured Froome a bit.
No way in hell Contador would've let Froome get that gap at Peyresourde and during the other MTFs Froome never dropped everybody it was nothing spectaculair. Reason enough to believe Alberto would've been atleast right up there with him.
I think there is reason enough to believe Contador would've made this Tour an incredibly interesting one, but we will never know. I think he would've, but it's what if and I hate "what if" as it's a waste of energy.

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

Contador is training like a madman right now, this vuelta is gonna be good

The tour ratings dropped hard this year, no surprise. If Contador was there, nothing would have been dropped.

Does he train how to stay on the bike?That is his biggest issue for a few years.

He put training wheels on his bike.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

I think Froome certainly had the odds on him winning, but looking back at this TdF then I certainly gave Contador a 40% chance. Not like it matters though, but if we are going to speculate.

Froome was good at the TT's and there is plenty of reason to think Contador would've been great at them as well. It were perfect TTs for him as well, allthough the wind during the first probably favoured Froome a bit.
No way in hell Contador would've let Froome get that gap at Peyresourde and during the other MTFs Froome never dropped everybody it was nothing spectaculair. Reason enough to believe Alberto would've been atleast right up there with him.
I think there is reason enough to believe Contador would've made this Tour an incredibly interesting one, but we will never know. I think he would've, but it's what if and I hate "what if" as it's a waste of energy.

I'm just gonna agree with our great philosopher here. He thinks deeply about this stuff

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Come on dacooley, answer to my other post. Let's talk about it, or what excuse are you gonna use mate?

Dacooley has a point. It's getting tiresome.
I think that Contador at the Tour would've completely changed the race, but it doesn't matter because he crashed out....unfortunately.
Now making bold claims that if Contador didnt crash he would've crushed the Tour etc. Is all rather pointless since we will never know. Then going on flaming other riders while boasting Contador while he didnt show anything (due to circumstances) is quite a bit lame imo.

It really sucks that Alberto crashed out in 2014 and 2016 as it leaves a lot of question marks and he never got the chance to show himself at his best level at the Tdf after 2010. Bloody shame.

Comepletely out of context, he said it was dreams and hopes that Contador would have challenged Froome. I provided facts to disprove that notion, that's all mate.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I think Froome certainly had the odds on him winning, but looking back at this TdF then I certainly gave Contador a 40% chance. Not like it matters though, but if we are going to speculate.

Froome was good at the TT's and there is plenty of reason to think Contador would've been great at them as well. It were perfect TTs for him as well, allthough the wind during the first probably favoured Froome a bit.
No way in hell Contador would've let Froome get that gap at Peyresourde and during the other MTFs Froome never dropped everybody it was nothing spectaculair. Reason enough to believe Alberto would've been atleast right up there with him.
I think there is reason enough to believe Contador would've made this Tour an incredibly interesting one, but we will never know. I think he would've, but it's what if and I hate "what if" as it's a waste of energy.

Pretty much spot on, I think.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

I think Froome certainly had the odds on him winning, but looking back at this TdF then I certainly gave Contador a 40% chance. Not like it matters though, but if we are going to speculate.

Froome was good at the TT's and there is plenty of reason to think Contador would've been great at them as well. It were perfect TTs for him as well, allthough the wind during the first probably favoured Froome a bit.
No way in hell Contador would've let Froome get that gap at Peyresourde and during the other MTFs Froome never dropped everybody it was nothing spectaculair. Reason enough to believe Alberto would've been atleast right up there with him.
I think there is reason enough to believe Contador would've made this Tour an incredibly interesting one, but we will never know. I think he would've, but it's what if and I hate "what if" as it's a waste of energy.

I'm just gonna agree with our great philosopher here. He thinks deeply about this stuff

You're a quick learner, my padawan.

 

[Miburo]

I don't expect anything from San Sebastian, just don't drop when 40 guys are left please

 

[Jelantik]

Looks like Vuelta won't be a walk in the park for Contador now that Froome is going to try Tour/Vuelta double. I guess the pressure will be on Contador to win it. The role is reverse now, with Froome coming to Vuelta with the Tour leg, and Contador is the fresher one. If Froome can win Vuelta with his Tour leg, .. well, I don't see any hope for Contador to challenge him on next year Tour. Should be a great Vuelta. Can't wait to watch it.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Nothing to do with hope and belief. You wanna do the stats with me? Contador had his second best dauphine in his career, knowing the field.

It was better than '10 (despite winning 2 stages, but he faced brajkovic and did a terrible ITT) and '09.

There's only one year where he didnt improve after the dauphine and that was in 2013. In all the other dauphines he improved a lot for the tour.

Way more than the likes of Porte and Froome. And Contador was at least at Porte's level in the dauphine, doing better than porte in 3 of the 4 big tests in the dauphine.

And Contador's recovery is a million times better than Porte in a GT. Porte was the second best GT rider in the tour.

So what dream am i talking about?

Oh yea Contador was 2nd in the UCI ranking. Come on let's have a discussion, what do you've to say to counter my argument?

One week form does not always convert to three week form. The whole argument about Porte before this race was that he was strong over one week but did not have it for a three week race. Is Contador's recovery a million times better than Porte at this stage of his career ? I think you are underestimating Porte's performance and also Froome's and his team's. Does anyone really believe that Contador will win another Tour ?

Every year since 2010 we have heard why Contador did not make the podium, what should have happened and what could have happened. I have no doubt Contador would have been in the GC battle but it's all history now just like Mollema's and Porte's bad luck and Quintana's lack of strength. I would like to see the four of them return to the Tour next year with good form and more luck but I still don't think Contador will beat Froome in the Tour and likely no one else will either unless Froome is the one to have the change in fortune next time which is always possible in bike racing. Armstrong went seven Tours with one crash and then in his last Tour he had four. Froome had two this year but luckily was able to continue. That said Contador should win the Vuelta.

Daupine form and climbing times mean nothing - even year to year. We see this every year with multiple examples of Daupine form not translating to TdF results but as someone else wrote there is always hope. And the TdF is not the Vuelta or Giro - climbs are raced fast and there is not the same opportunity to attack. Even Bardet's attack this year was after Froome's crash so there was disruption in the yellow jersey group that created the opportunity. Agree Contador can win the Vuelta. But winning the TdF is now only possible if Froome / Sky have bad luck - even Olev Tinkov has admitted as much.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I think Contador should focus on the Giro and Vuelta next year. If he wins the Vuelta this year (and sadly that's a big if with how ridiculous Froome is) and next year he'd be sole record holder. Next year will be the Giro's 100th edition, so it will receive more media attention as well. But sadly he'll probably go for the Tour again.

Thats a nonsense.Fatigued Froome doesnt stand a chance again fresh Contador.Only Contador rivals are Kruiswijk,MAL,Purito and Chaves.

I want him to go for TdF again, he had enough Giro's and Vuelta's.I think he has a chance against top form Froome with a dedicated team, not mentioning that Froome may not be top form one year.

I'm with you as far as Contador going to the Tour. Even if he doesn't win it, at least it gives Froome a run for his money and gave headache to sky armada. A little bit more spark or fight from the real contender would be nice to see. Granted that Contador can stay upright. (he seemed to have trouble with that in last few years). Froome might not or might be dominant. Typically winning the 3rd one in a row, isn't usually that easy. So I'm still have my hope, one more Tour win for contador. But before that, he'd better win the Vuelta from Froome. Otherwise, game over then.

 

[Jakub]

So - which opponents is Bertie gonna face at Vuelta and what are their strengths and weaknesses?

Froome: should be tired after Tour and Olympics

Chaves: hopefully will be weaker than in Giro. The profiles suit him IMHO better. He can't ITT though. The problem is he's gonna take some time in TTT.

Kruijswijk- he should be good, shouldn't he? However not as good as in Giro?


Landa: he has done 1,5 GTs already, but he was probably softpedalling almost the whole tour. He has shown better ITT in Giro - could he be a contender?

There could be some other guys, but apart from Froome (1st league) and the mentioned 2nd league guys, it's only 3rd league (König?, Lopez, tired old Purito). God knows what's with Quintana, but he would have also tour legs.

Who have I forgotten?

I believe that if he comes in a good form, like 2014 Vuelta, there won't be anyone to be afraid of. I am just not sure if he doesn't lose much time in sprinting for bonus seconds.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

So - which opponents is Bertie gonna face at Vuelta and what are their strengths and weaknesses?

Froome: should be tired after Tour and Olympics

Chaves: hopefully will be weaker than in Giro. The profiles suit him IMHO better. He can't ITT though. The problem is he's gonna take some time in TTT.

Kruijswijk- he should be good, shouldn't he? However not as good as in Giro?


Landa: he has done 1,5 GTs already, but he was probably softpedalling almost the whole tour. He has shown better ITT in Giro - could he be a contender?

There could be some other guys, but apart from Froome (1st league) and the mentioned 2nd league guys, it's only 3rd league (König?, Lopez, tired old Purito). God knows what's with Quintana, but he would have also tour legs.

Who have I forgotten?

Valverde - he'll decide after the Olympics:
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/07/25/actualidad/1469438765_806513.html

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

So - which opponents is Bertie gonna face at Vuelta and what are their strengths and weaknesses?

Froome: should be tired after Tour and Olympics

Chaves: hopefully will be weaker than in Giro. The profiles suit him IMHO better. He can't ITT though. The problem is he's gonna take some time in TTT.

Kruijswijk- he should be good, shouldn't he? However not as good as in Giro?


Landa: he has done 1,5 GTs already, but he was probably softpedalling almost the whole tour. He has shown better ITT in Giro - could he be a contender?

There could be some other guys, but apart from Froome (1st league) and the mentioned 2nd league guys, it's only 3rd league (König?, Lopez, tired old Purito). God knows what's with Quintana, but he would have also tour legs.

Who have I forgotten?

Valverde - he'll decide after the Olympics:
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/07/25/actualidad/1469438765_806513.html

No way in hell Valverde can win the vuelta after a 3rd place in the giro and a 6th place in the tour.

It sounds strange but I am really afraid of Contador sucking in this Vuelta. This win is so incredibly important, much more important than in 2014 imo since this year it looks like most people are already saying he is past his prime and can't win anymore. Not only bookies but also fans think Contador won't win this vuelta and if he really gets beaten by Froome with tour and olympics in his legs I fear the golden days of Contador are really over. I think he is the big favorite but I'm still afraid of what happens if he doesn't win.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Way more than the likes of Froome.

Froome went from struggling to beat TVG at the Dauphine to.. well we all know what happened at PSM.
Contador improves a lot between the Dauphine and the Tour but so does Froome. You're one of the few that still thinks Contador could have beaten Froome in this year's Tour

I think Froome certainly had the odds on him winning, but looking back at this TdF then I certainly gave Contador a 40% chance. Not like it matters though, but if we are going to speculate.

Froome was good at the TT's and there is plenty of reason to think Contador would've been great at them as well. It were perfect TTs for him as well, allthough the wind during the first probably favoured Froome a bit.
No way in hell Contador would've let Froome get that gap at Peyresourde and during the other MTFs Froome never dropped everybody it was nothing spectaculair. Reason enough to believe Alberto would've been atleast right up there with him.
I think there is reason enough to believe Contador would've made this Tour an incredibly interesting one, but we will never know. I think he would've, but it's what if and I hate "what if" as it's a waste of energy.

Agree with most of this. Contador would probably have lost about 40s on the first TT and gained about 5-10s on the mountain TT, so you're looking at a 30s deficit. For a start, Sagan would not have pushed on in the crosswinds if Froome bridged but Contador didn't.

I think Froome did amazingly well tactically on the Peyresourde when he took the mountain points from Majka and would definitely have caught Contador by surprise just like Quintana. But the difference is Contador wouldn't look around and chase himself. Whether he would have been able to catch Froome is debatable but worst case scenario Froome would have won the stage with a 1-2s gap and the 10s bonus. So we're looking at 40s.

Whether he would have been able to drop Froome for 40s anywhere other than Arcalis is debatable (doubt Froome would have chased Bardet like that if the GC was actually close), and given Froome's history in the Tour on the first mountain stage, even Contador would probably have been scared to attack. But assuming he wouldn't have been dropped by Porte and Froome on Ventoux (Mollema bridged, so fair to assume Contador would have too) or Finault, that's still a whole lot closer than anyone else, and we wouldn't have seen Sky cruising down the descent of the Joux-Plane with AC just 40s down on GC

 

[warmfuzzies]

Is this year's Vuelta more suitable to a climber, a puncheur, or a crasheur?

 

[Sciocco]

Re: Re:

No way in hell Valverde can win the vuelta after a 3rd place in the giro and a 6th place in the tour.

It sounds strange but I am really afraid of Contador sucking in this Vuelta. This win is so incredibly important, much more important than in 2014 imo since this year it looks like most people are already saying he is past his prime and can't win anymore. Not only bookies but also fans think Contador won't win this vuelta and if he really gets beaten by Froome with tour and olympics in his legs I fear the golden days of Contador are really over. I think he is the big favorite but I'm still afraid of what happens if he doesn't win.

He's finished 3, 2*, 2, 1, and 5th in GC for the stage races he completed this year. He also won three stages along the way.

*Would've been another first if the one stage wasn't cancelled.

Now he's going to ride CSS (yes he probably won't do much there) and Burgos which has profiles of:
http://www.vueltaburgos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/perfil1_2016.jpg
http://www.vueltaburgos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/perfil2_2016.jpg
http://www.vueltaburgos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/perfil3_2016.jpg
http://www.vueltaburgos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/perfil4_2016.jpg
http://www.vueltaburgos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/perfil5_2016.jpg

Very likely another podium minimum with the possibility of winning the GC and taking one or two stages.

Dude is still a top end racer.

 

[Red Rick]

It's the Vuelta, it suits the climbers, especially those who pack a bit of punch without cringeworthy humour