Oh here we go again. All the Sky loving ac criitics are idiots, and all the Sky hating ac supporters are great guys and cycling experts)))
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Re: Re:
The third suggestion is a good one, but wont stick.
Where do you stop? Top 20 GC?
The 21st guy gets an advantage and the guys just above him cry foul. Ceasefire aint happening.
On the contrary, why is Contador crying? When he almost took down Froome(TDF 13) on the descent and froome was wary of the dangers on the descent, everybody was saying this is racing.
Well, this is racing.
LaFlorecita said:Again it seems like you've not read all of my post or at least not fully understood what I was saying:PremierAndrew said:You're horrified that cyclists are forced to risk breaking a collarbone on a flat stage but not risk losing their life on descents? If you were saying that attacks on descents shouldn't happen either, I'd understand a bit more (even though that's another part of racing). Risking your collarbone for 5s is a much smaller risk than risking your life for 1 minute if you ask me
As for me being biased, well you've probably caught on that it's not like I dislike Contador, and it's not like I was suggesting that descending should be neutralised back when Froome was unable to handle his bike
1. Downhill, if you have the necessary skills, you'll rarely crash. Only the occasional fukc-up or someone crashing in front of you can take you down, but the latter can be avoided by descending in first position.
2. In a sprint crash, 9 times out of 10, skills wouldn't save you. If you're going 55kph and three riders go down in front of you, yeah, only the supernatural can save you at that point
3. Downhill, groups are often smaller and many times the battle has already commenced uphill. It seems logical to push it here to put pressure on rivals, both in your own group and in other groups further up/down the road, especially because the gaps can get quite extensive. Moreover, if someone pushes the pace, it is easy for another rider to follow if he so desires: he can pass a couple riders (the group is stretched out) and settle in the wheel of the rider attempting to break free.
4. In a sprint finish, a time loss 99% of the time is not due to the GC contender losing time. In a peloton, we have 15 sprinters and 15 GC contenders. The rest don't care about finishing as fast as possible. GC contender A can finish 20th, GC contender B 35th. But guess what, sprinters' leadouts are dropping back, they are empty and just want their sprinter to win. They don't care about keeping the wheel of the rider ahead of then. And, this way, a GC contender can lose several seconds through no fault of their own. I'm sure you'd agree 15 sprinters and 15 GC contenders and 15 leadouts can't all be among the first 20 with 500m to go. Yet if we stick to the current system, this is what we ask of the riders, if they don't want to lose time: with crashes as a result.
Just as I was writing this Alberto posted a rant on twitter aimed at the UCI, you can guess the message: is this really what you want, surely the loss of a favorite reduces the spectacle much more than a lack of crashes ever would, etc.
Now I've read and heard three possible solutions, and while I think any of them would be better than what we have now, but I realize they have their downsides. Those 3 are;
1. Take time at 3km to go (but won't riders try to gain time at that mark? won't it just become a sprint to 3km to go etc.)
2. Require a gap of 5s before taking into account time differences on GC (but what if someone attacks with 800m to go and wins by 3s and could take the jersey?)
3. The GC contenders declare a ceasefire and roll in together (good luck getting everyone to agree)
But what about this 4th option? I had never occured to me before but is it not weird that if 10 riders come in 0.9 second behind the rider in front of him, and rider 11 finishes 1.1 second behind rider 10, rider 11 suddenly loses 10 seconds on all those riders in front of him, even rider 10 who in reality was only 1.1 second in front?
So my suggestion (and am open to discussion) why not take the time between the last rider of a group and the first rider of the next group? I understand that this might seem slightly unfair to the first rider of the first group who was really (as in the example above) 10 seconds ahead of rider 11, but on the other hand, had rider 11 been .2 second faster, he'd have lost no time at all. Of course this is impossible to do on uphill finishes, so an agreement would have to be made on what stages this rule would be in effect. But to me it seems more fair than losing 10 seconds because you were .2 second too slow, or even worse, because the rider in front of you was .2 second too slow.
Personally, as long as the current rules are in effect and some GC contenders still want to push on for seconds, I'd prefer Alberto to stay back and take a time loss. Hang around at the back, worst case, he loses 15-20s, but at least in such a case he could still show his shape to all the doubters and haters. I'm sure he now wishes he'd chosen that option.
The third suggestion is a good one, but wont stick.
Where do you stop? Top 20 GC?
The 21st guy gets an advantage and the guys just above him cry foul. Ceasefire aint happening.
On the contrary, why is Contador crying? When he almost took down Froome(TDF 13) on the descent and froome was wary of the dangers on the descent, everybody was saying this is racing.
Well, this is racing.
+10 armorJelantik said:Contador is getting ready. He is all taped.. lol.. almost like a body armour .. :lol:
+25 mana
-1 climbing
It's not just Contador "crying". Many riders are voicing their concerns. For example take a look at Koen de Kort and Nathan Haas on twitter.
Re: Re:
He's won 7 (or 9 whatever, dont want to get into that discussion) GTs already, he's got nothing to prove to anyone
He should definitely go all out for another Vuelta win instead of going for 2 stage wins just to prove a point
LaFlorecita said:
He's won 7 (or 9 whatever, dont want to get into that discussion) GTs already, he's got nothing to prove to anyone
He should definitely go all out for another Vuelta win instead of going for 2 stage wins just to prove a point
Tony Martin and many others including Valverde DID say that they werent going to do anything crazy.
It was Contador who pushed on.
It was Contador who pushed on.
Can't they wrap him up like this before he crashes? Maybe add some bubble wrap as well?Red Rick said:+10 armorJelantik said:Contador is getting ready. He is all taped.. lol.. almost like a body armour .. :lol:
+25 mana
-1 climbing
Re: Re:
Don't get me wrong, no one else would love him winning another GT more than me, and it would feel so good to laugh at all the haters, but it is so frustrating to constantly see him crash out of contention that I'd rather see him take a more careful approach and show his full potential uphill. At this point, in GTs, it is more of a question when not if he will crash.
Well apparently a GT win last year and 2 one-week stage race wins + 3 podiums this year isn't enough to convince some people he still has potential to finish top-5 in a GT.PremierAndrew said:
Don't get me wrong, no one else would love him winning another GT more than me, and it would feel so good to laugh at all the haters, but it is so frustrating to constantly see him crash out of contention that I'd rather see him take a more careful approach and show his full potential uphill. At this point, in GTs, it is more of a question when not if he will crash.
Re:
So true! :lol:
But let's hope that AC surprises us all with a good ride on stage 8.
Maybe even a stage win!
Miburo said:
So true! :lol:
But let's hope that AC surprises us all with a good ride on stage 8.
Maybe even a stage win!
Re: Re:
I suppose we can dream
Lolgregrowlerson said:Miburo said:
So true! :lol:
But let's hope that AC surprises us all with a good ride on stage 8.
Maybe even a stage win!
I suppose we can dream
You never know, the effects of a crash are impossible to predict. Every crash is different, and every person is.
Re: Re:
He has produced a miracle or four in the past, most memorably the '14 Vuelta, so you never know. Although perhaps what he has lost the most in the last couple of years is the ability to recover, both from crashes and in general from stage to stage over three weeks (maybe stage 20 in last years Giro was a bit of a sign). He is of course still as good as any rider in the world over one week races.
I still hope that he has what it takes to be a top three rider in GT's too, but if we try to compare to Froome, he crashed on stage 19 of this years Tour pretty hard, but still came back well the next day.
Admittedly it would have been nice if someone (other than Purito) had attacked on that stage
On another topic, I was thinking about Contador today (for what does one have to do with their day that could be better than thinking about Contador lol ), and about his troubles at the Tour post ban. What would have it all been like if he wasn't banned? Strangely it may still be the best for what happened, as in that most of us (me included) still count him as the winner of the '10 Tour and '11 Giro', and he's gone on to add three more GT's thereafter. I was wondering if he really would have been able to beat Sky in the 2012 Tour? On most routes yes, but on that one? I'm just not sure where he takes the time back on Wiggins, who has Froome (plus Rogers and Porte) for support.
LaFlorecita said:Lolgregrowlerson said:Miburo said:
So true! :lol:
But let's hope that AC surprises us all with a good ride on stage 8.
Maybe even a stage win!
He has produced a miracle or four in the past, most memorably the '14 Vuelta, so you never know. Although perhaps what he has lost the most in the last couple of years is the ability to recover, both from crashes and in general from stage to stage over three weeks (maybe stage 20 in last years Giro was a bit of a sign). He is of course still as good as any rider in the world over one week races.
I still hope that he has what it takes to be a top three rider in GT's too, but if we try to compare to Froome, he crashed on stage 19 of this years Tour pretty hard, but still came back well the next day.
Admittedly it would have been nice if someone (other than Purito) had attacked on that stage
On another topic, I was thinking about Contador today (for what does one have to do with their day that could be better than thinking about Contador lol ), and about his troubles at the Tour post ban. What would have it all been like if he wasn't banned? Strangely it may still be the best for what happened, as in that most of us (me included) still count him as the winner of the '10 Tour and '11 Giro', and he's gone on to add three more GT's thereafter. I was wondering if he really would have been able to beat Sky in the 2012 Tour? On most routes yes, but on that one? I'm just not sure where he takes the time back on Wiggins, who has Froome (plus Rogers and Porte) for support.
For once i was right.
This crash didn't hurt him at all, maybe a bit but this is promising.
When is the aubisque people?
This crash didn't hurt him at all, maybe a bit but this is promising.
When is the aubisque people?
the important thing is that the form is much improved compared Ezero. We must be happy, Quintana is the strongest for now but maybe without the crash of yesterday ,he would have lost only 15 seconds
Re:
Imo contador can take at least a minute on quintana in the ITT, remember quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week of the vuelta. That's where he must strike
Matteo. said:
Imo contador can take at least a minute on quintana in the ITT, remember quintana will feel the tour in the 3rd week of the vuelta. That's where he must strike
Well, Contador did better than expected! Thank God. The sight of him passing Froome was the best one. Quintana was really really good. Still two more difficult days ahead, we'll see how Contador recovers.
Well that went much better than I expected....mummy man puts on a nice ride, especially considering the circumstances. Two much nastier days to get through and then some rest. I'm sure he needs it!
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