Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

What may or may not have been his mantra, clearly no longer applies.

We shall see about that. I personally expect him to go long-range at some point.

So do you think he can sneak into third, or will the Orica duo be too strong?

I expect him to finish 5th behind Quintana, Froome, Chaves and König (don't know what order).

Contador wil gain time in the ITT. He might finish third IMO.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What may or may not have been his mantra, clearly no longer applies.

We shall see about that. I personally expect him to go long-range at some point.

I expect him to finish 5th behind Quintana, Froome, Chaves and König (don't know what order).

So do you think he can sneak into third, or will the Orica duo be too strong?

I'd love to see it, from the point of the race it would be great. For him personally, I think would be a bit of a disaster; they wouldn't give him the same rope as Yates to get away. Tomorrow is the best stage for a long attack though, it's so short and not so much flat between climbs that it's possible to work. Depends how tired everyone is after today.

I'm a bit more optimistic for his chances. Think Chaves could fade again and Konig may have to work for Froome at some point. 3rd would be a great achievement from this position though for sure.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Hard to do attacks when

- You're hanging on for dear life uphill
- The terrain is like it is
- All riders above you in GC have way better teams

True. And also, there's no way he would have been allowed to go like Yates was today. Or even Chaves. He just doesn't get the same level of freedom, even though objectively he may be less of a threat to the overall at this point.

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him.

You really don't know him, do you? Check his comments throughout the race. Check his teammates' comments. Check Steven de Jongh's comments. Check Ivan Basso's comments. It's clear he only aims for the win, it's not something his fans have made up.

He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

You're still contradicting yourself. At times, you've said he always takes the easy road and attacks from far because he doesn't "have the guts and humility" to fight for the podium. At other times you say he's fighting for the podium. Now you've put both viewpoints in one post. Surely you agree he can't both
a) lack the humility and guts to fight for the podium so he goes on suicide attacks instead;
and b) not actually have an "all or nothing" attitude and secretly fight for third anyway
?
If he lacks the guts and humility to fight for a top-5 or podium and would rather attack from far out and throw away his position, surely that means he does not want to fight for the podium, which surely means he has an "all-or-nothing" attitude?

It's quite simple. At times in the past I think he has lacked the guts and humility to fight for the podium. Although in 2015 Tour, he was also certainly trying to place as high as possible.

This year, it looks like he has finally accepted he is not among the very elite, and is battling for a podium. Which, as I have said, I commend him for. He hasn't put in a ridiculous, doomed long range attack yet - and seems more content to limit his losses and try to edge out the rest into 3rd place.

There's no contradiction here. Contador has accepted he can't compete with the best any more; hopefully his fans will soon follow and support him in his attempts to finish 3rd.

Yes, there is contradiction since a few days ago you said that his long range attacks were due to his lack of humility. And now you say that he´s accepted that he cannot compete with the best since the Tour 2015.

Anyway how´s that he finally understood that he has to fight for the podium instead of the first place...when he didn´t follow Chaves and he did follow Froome and Quintana until he couldn´t follow their pace?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yes, there is contradiction since a few days ago you said that his long range attacks were due to his lack of humility. And now you say that he´s accepted that he cannot compete with the best since the Tour 2015.

Anyway how´s that he finally understood that he has to fight for the podium instead of the first place...when he didn´t follow Chaves and he did follow Froome and Quintana until he couldn´t follow their pace?

+1. It's clear he's not focused on finishing 3rd. He's focused on finishing as high as possible, which ideally is 1st. That is why he tries to follow Froome and Quintana. Of course, by following this strategy, he may end up 3rd, but that doesn't mean he has shifted his mindset to fighting for 3rd.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him.

You really don't know him, do you? Check his comments throughout the race. Check his teammates' comments. Check Steven de Jongh's comments. Check Ivan Basso's comments. It's clear he only aims for the win, it's not something his fans have made up.

He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

You're still contradicting yourself. At times, you've said he always takes the easy road and attacks from far because he doesn't "have the guts and humility" to fight for the podium. At other times you say he's fighting for the podium. Now you've put both viewpoints in one post. Surely you agree he can't both
a) lack the humility and guts to fight for the podium so he goes on suicide attacks instead;
and b) not actually have an "all or nothing" attitude and secretly fight for third anyway
?
If he lacks the guts and humility to fight for a top-5 or podium and would rather attack from far out and throw away his position, surely that means he does not want to fight for the podium, which surely means he has an "all-or-nothing" attitude?

It's quite simple. At times in the past I think he has lacked the guts and humility to fight for the podium. Although in 2015 Tour, he was also certainly trying to place as high as possible.

This year, it looks like he has finally accepted he is not among the very elite, and is battling for a podium. Which, as I have said, I commend him for. He hasn't put in a ridiculous, doomed long range attack yet - and seems more content to limit his losses and try to edge out the rest into 3rd place.

There's no contradiction here. Contador has accepted he can't compete with the best any more; hopefully his fans will soon follow and support him in his attempts to finish 3rd.

Yes, there is contradiction since a few days ago you said that his long range attacks were due to his lack of humility. And now you say that he´s accepted that he cannot compete with the best since the Tour 2015.

Anyway how´s that he finally understood that he has to fight for the podium instead of the first place...when he didn´t follow Chaves and he did follow Froome and Quintana until he couldn´t follow their pace?

This isnt what happened. He didn't follow Froome and Quintana, he dropped them at one point chasing Chaves, and then got dropped by them as they counter-attacked right past him.

He said in the quote above that he had to chase down attacks from other riders, because they were only a threat to him, not Froome and Quintana. That explains his brief dig to follow Chaves and Konig, immediately before he was dropped by Quintana and Froome.

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him.

You really don't know him, do you? Check his comments throughout the race. Check his teammates' comments. Check Steven de Jongh's comments. Check Ivan Basso's comments. It's clear he only aims for the win, it's not something his fans have made up.

He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

You're still contradicting yourself. At times, you've said he always takes the easy road and attacks from far because he doesn't "have the guts and humility" to fight for the podium. At other times you say he's fighting for the podium. Now you've put both viewpoints in one post. Surely you agree he can't both
a) lack the humility and guts to fight for the podium so he goes on suicide attacks instead;
and b) not actually have an "all or nothing" attitude and secretly fight for third anyway
?
If he lacks the guts and humility to fight for a top-5 or podium and would rather attack from far out and throw away his position, surely that means he does not want to fight for the podium, which surely means he has an "all-or-nothing" attitude?

It's quite simple. At times in the past I think he has lacked the guts and humility to fight for the podium. Although in 2015 Tour, he was also certainly trying to place as high as possible.

This year, it looks like he has finally accepted he is not among the very elite, and is battling for a podium. Which, as I have said, I commend him for. He hasn't put in a ridiculous, doomed long range attack yet - and seems more content to limit his losses and try to edge out the rest into 3rd place.

There's no contradiction here. Contador has accepted he can't compete with the best any more; hopefully his fans will soon follow and support him in his attempts to finish 3rd.

Yes, there is contradiction since a few days ago you said that his long range attacks were due to his lack of humility. And now you say that he´s accepted that he cannot compete with the best since the Tour 2015.

Anyway how´s that he finally understood that he has to fight for the podium instead of the first place...when he didn´t follow Chaves and he did follow Froome and Quintana until he couldn´t follow their pace?

This isnt what happened. He didn't follow Froome and Quintana, he dropped them at one point chasing Chaves, and then got dropped by them as they counter-attacked right past him.

He said in the quote above that he had to chase down attacks from other riders, because they were only a threat to him, not Froome and Quintana. That explains his brief dig to follow Chaves and Konig, immediately before he was dropped by Quintana and Froome.

If that had happened, when Alberto attacked, he wouldn´t have looked back trying to see if Nairo or Froome were following him. And he´d have paced himself instead of following Quintana and Froome.

And tbh i don´t care what he tells to the press. He doesn´t even tell the truth to his doctor.

He probably will start fighting for the podium tomorrow or the stage after, since he´s obviously no rival for Froome and Quintana in this Vuelta.

 

[jens_attacks]

time to sign with gianetti.

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

Decent result today. Nearly blew himself up, but limited his losses well in the end. With Valverde out of the picture, there looks to be a great opportunity for 3rd. He should take plenty of time on Yates and Chaves in the TT. Konig is a bit of a concern now though - if he sacrifices himself for Froome then Contador should really make the podium.

It could have been much worse if Quintana and Froome didn't come to a grinding halt every time Nairo's attacks were neutralised, if they had kept a hard tempo instead of stopping he would have shipped a lot of time you'd think, he doesn't really seem to have recovered fully from the Tour as he is a much better rider than he is showing this Vuelta, even if he doesn't seem to have what it takes to beat Quintana or Froome in a GT these days.

Completely agree. Froome and Quintana could have been at least a minute faster. It doesn't seem like Alberto is improving which is surprising. As you say, he might not have been fully recovered before the start because he is better than this. He should at least be able to beat Sammy Sanchez, Simon Yates and Leopold König but he's really struggling. At times he looks good but it seems he is lacking stamina.

There was a time when Alberto set the pace up the mountain not followed the pace of others. In those days, Alberto's pace was usually unfollowable...memories. Now i hear Alberto talking about the pace set my others was "too slow for my liking"

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

time to sign with gianetti.

Omg yes please

 

[jens_attacks]

now seriously, i hope he targets next year the giro

he wil never reach again his 2009 level but c'mon the level he shows in this vuelta must be because of poor recovery after injuries. i refuse to believe otherwise!

 

[IMA]

Re:

time to sign with gianetti.

That would be awesome.

Manolito maletines, Bruyneel, Riis and now Gianetti.

 

[jens_attacks]

Re: Re:

time to sign with gianetti.

That would be awesome.

Manolito maletines, Bruyneel, Riis and now Gianetti.

brailsford is the ultimate master.

 

[IMA]

Re:

now seriously, i hope he targets next year the giro

he wil never reach again his 2009 level but c'mon the level he shows in this vuelta must be because of poor recovery after injuries. i refuse to believe otherwise!

There´s no point in taking a decision based on how he´s performed in this Vuelta.

He has to rest and analyze carefully and objectively what happened in this season. Maybe he´s done for the Tour, but what we saw between Algarve and Itzulia has to make him think he´s not done to win any other race.

 

[carton]

Re:

Hard to do attacks when

- You're hanging on for dear life uphill

This is true. Also, astonishingly difficult for a lot of people to grasp.

 

[roundabout]

At least 3 if not 4 riders who have been weaker than Contador uphill in this Vuelta managed to get away from Quintana/Froome on the last climb so it's not only about strength.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

At least 3 if not 4 riders who have been weaker than Contador uphill in this Vuelta managed to get away from Quintana/Froome on the last climb so it's not only about strength.

Contador made a mistake going with the accelerations.

But he's also Contador, they'll never let him go to be fair. What sanchez or chavez did, will be hard for him

 

[roundabout]

It didn't look like Quintana reacted immediately when Contador accelerated, but I will have to rewatch that moment.

 

[Miburo]

He waited 5 sec, to see if froome would respond, he didnt and then quintana went after him.

They can give yates, sanchez or chavez a minute by just looking at each other. Quintana doesn't wanna risk that with Contador

 

[jilbiker]

But wait guys, Valverde finally showed that he is not superhuman and that one can feel the impact of multiple GTs. He seemed to have just collapsed today, his body just could not respond. Is it only a matter of time? You can only push this body so much, at some point, it stops answering you. Froome and Quintana are having some fierce battles, the TDF was no walk in the park for Froome and now a tense Vuelta? And there is no impact? Lets wait and see this famous 3rd week. I think its important to position well for the 3rd week. Will we see a 10minute collapse from Froome and Quints? Sounds impossible but the body is the master, if it refuses to fire up, there is nothing you can do. Perhaps Bertie is just waiting...

 

[boasson]

Re:

But wait guys, Valverde finally showed that he is not superhuman and that one can feel the impact of multiple GTs. He seemed to have just collapsed today, his body just could not respond. Is it only a matter of time? You can only push this body so much, at some point, it stops answering you. Froome and Quintana are having some fierce battles, the TDF was no walk in the park for Froome and now a tense Vuelta? And there is no impact? Lets wait and see this famous 3rd week. I think its important to position well for the 3rd week. Will we see a 10minute collapse from Froome and Quints? Sounds impossible but the body is the master, if it refuses to fire up, there is nothing you can do. Perhaps Bertie is just waiting...

1. At wich stage should Froome lose 5 Minutes?
2. At wich stage should Quintana lose 5 Minutes?
3. At wich stage should König lose 2 Minutes?

The 3rd week is pretty easy. The decisive stages are over. Now there is a 5,9 percent climb and a 3,8km climb. Thats it.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

time to sign with gianetti.

That would be awesome.

Manolito maletines, Bruyneel, Riis and now Gianetti.

brailsford is the ultimate master.

Better if he signs with you

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

Now you're backing off your statement that someone made it up? It is an actual quote from him that made it quite clear that he rides for the win. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't make it a fantasy of those that actually recall it. Normally this is a trait that is admired. A rider that is willing to risk it all to get the win in dramatic fashion. Yet you want to question his guts and humility. I strongly believe that motivations for this kind of foolishness is derived more from an adversarial attitude towards some of the devoted Contador fans than any real rational thought.

 

[fantomas]

Re:

The Tinkoff leader summed up the final climb from the finish. “I tried to sit with Froome and Quintana, but the changes in rhythm and pace made it hard to follow them. On the other hand, it wasn’t that difficult to follow the other riders. Maybe people will find this surprising, but I’m feeling well. I focussed on Froome and Quintana and for a long time I was riding easily with them, but there were a lot of attacks from dangerous riders that I also had to control – because only for me they were dangerous and not for them.”

With riders going slow on the Aubisque, Alberto found it hard to find a good rhythm. “When Chaves attacked, we were going really slow. The way we rode up the climb didn’t really suit me – we had many slow moments and when Chaves attacked, we were really, really, really slow, so it was hard for me to accelerate. The truth is that I felt well and I attacked, but that was only to change the rhythm and to switch to a constant climbing pace. I tried to have a stable power output so that the riders that were ahead of me couldn’t go, but at the end I wasn’t able to get to the finish with Nairo and Froome.”

This pretty much says it all. The thing he used to excel in, he now dislikes.

 

[Red Rick]

That's a shape thing, not a change in the rider. He did it himself as recent as the Dauphine. If Quintana and Froome had ridden a steady pace they would've done better than Contador as well. I think he mostly lacks in the high intensity. He's turning a huge gear, and I don't know why, but that doesn't work if you have to accelerate as hard as they have.