Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[sacrifice&hardwork]

Re: Re:

The secret was all in the gear, unfortunately Alberto rode with the wrong one and gave away precious time.

That's unfortunate

Very unfortunate! He rode with a 54X11 while Froome and Quintana rode with a 56X11. It could've saved him a minute on Froome, but oh well…

Makes sense that it could cost him some time on the flat parts / descents. If he was on 54-11 on the descents, then odds are he couldn't quite reach the same speeds as higher-geared riders (or atleast he would have to pedal at a much higher rate to compensate for the gear). Seems weird to make such a bad call regarding equipment from the team.
Anyway he was already 30 seconds behind Froome at the first check. Probably just wasn't quite his day.

Very hard to believe he chose the wrong gears. And I note there's no source or link to support this theory. Are we to believe that Alberto and his team, with all their experience, would have chosen the wrong gearing?! Matthew Keenan, the Australian commentator on my TV transmission, was even saying how Alberto knew the course inside out. And he and his team would have certainly practiced it. Yet they chose the wrong gears?

First of all, Alberto loves to ride a 54x11 for when it comes to TTs. He's done the same mistake in the past. It's not the first time he rides TTs with a wrong gear. There's no need for a link when you know what gear he'll use. His rivals gears were reported on Twitter by a Spanish journalist. Anyways, you should ask Alberto himself by he's so loyal to 54x11. They're no doubt he would done much better if he had chosen the right one but oh well it's yesterday's news now.


*****


And second of all, the negotiations between Trek and Alberto are more complicated that many of you think. They're bigger issues than what many of you are saying here (e.g., age, fitness). But they're fun to read no doubt

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Very hard to believe he chose the wrong gears. And I note there's no source or link to support this theory. Are we to believe that Alberto and his team, with all their experience, would have chosen the wrong gearing?! Matthew Keenan, the Australian commentator on my TV transmission, was even saying how Alberto knew the course inside out. And he and his team would have certainly practiced it. Yet they chose the wrong gears?

First of all, Alberto loves to ride a 54x11 for when it comes to TTs. He's done the same mistake in the past. It's not the first time he rides TTs with a wrong gear. There's no need for a link when you know what gear he'll use. His rivals gears were reported on Twitter by a Spanish journalist. Anyways, you should ask Alberto himself by he's so loyal to 54x11. They're no doubt he would done much better if he had chosen the right one but oh well it's yesterday's news now.

So you don't have a source. You're guessing based on what he's used in previous TTs. And how have you reached the conclusion that he would have done much better with the right gear? Pretty sure a guy whos won multiple TTs knows which gear suits him best, whatever that was.

 

[sacrifice&hardwork]

@DFA123

Uh no! It's not a guess,it's a fact. At this point in the game there's no use in talking about what's already done. If you say the result would've been the same fine but I feel it would've been different. But you're right in your last sentence which is why he's loyal to riding a 54x11.

 

[lartiste]

Re: Re:

[quote="And second of all, the negotiations between Trek and Alberto are more complicated that many of you think. They're bigger issues than what many of you are saying here (e.g., age, fitness). But they're fun to read no doubt [/quote]

What about the bike? I mean is the bike producer also in question? Alberto was driving Trek when with Bruyneel, but know driving Specialized. This would be issue as well possibly?

And regarding age and fitness - since the first year of this team, it was overcrowded with older guys. Is it really issue for them?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

And second of all, the negotiations between Trek and Alberto are more complicated that many of you think. They're bigger issues than what many of you are saying here (e.g., age, fitness). But they're fun to read no doubt

PM me?

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

Yeah, in all seriousness, I can't see it happening either. It just doesn't quite seem to fit - but I wouldn't be surprised if he was keeping all options open. Equally, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he's already signed for Trek.

It's a bit strange how this is all playing out tbh.

I really hope we'll hear what happened, but I doubt it. It's so weird: Pantano, Zubeldia, Mollema, De Jongh have all but confirmed he'll ride for Trek. We also heard he would sign for them on the first rest day of the Tour. But later we heard his management had contacted Astana and now we have these rumors he's talking to Bahrain and Movistar. Perhaps they never got round to signing on the first rest day because Alberto was already at home - after which the Trek management started doubting? Either way it would be sad if he is really struggling to find a team

Perhaps it was worrying him at the beginning of the Vuelta and may have led to the poor start and eventual crash. AC wears his emotions on his sleeve, one can tell when he is troubled. TDF 2010 when he had team issues with Vino and it was here or there if he would stay at Astana, I still say he did not look happy or settled in that TDF win or not, it was an unhappy outcome. I think he is much older and after the crash pulled himself together and decided hey lets focus and ride this race, but he was already far behind though. Sad for Trek to do that, I think the TDF crash led to second thoughts, but perhaps there were already issues with the contract, perhaps the unsettled deal led to lack of focus and the crashes at the TDF.

Am I making excuses for Bertie? Perhaps, but we should still allow for people who are less stoic than others.

 

[Jelantik]

This is why Bahrain Merida would love to sign Cotador along NIbali, because they are fighting for points to get the WT licenses. I thought it's impossible, but money talks, and they need points. Contador has lots of points on his early season win and podium places. If some team are even willing to acquire Purito signature (even if he said he is retired and he won't race full programme next year), Contador looks a lot more appetizing than Purito.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rider-prices-rise-as-teams-reach-panic-over-worldtour-points/

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Movistar would be the best choice for Contador, but I'm not sure Quintana, Valverde and Contador aren't too much for a(ny) team.
First to win tomorrow's stage.

For sure, Contador should bite their hand off if they offered to sign him as their leader for the Giro. He won't get a better offer than that in terms of team support and potential to win another GT.

Don't really see the benefit to Movistar though of spending so much on him. They already have the GC covered for the biggest races with Quintana, and they already have a Spanish superstar to keep sponsors happy.

well after so many years.. and he still got the wrong gears ,. then he deserved to loose his GT. I'm quite surprise with someone so meticulously like him and with a group of expert behind him, he could get his gearing wrong?

 

[lenric]

I call it ***. There's always an excuse.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

The secret was all in the gear, unfortunately Alberto rode with the wrong one and gave away precious time.

That's unfortunate

IMHO it's not unfortunate. It's dumb. Bertie keeps having a way to sabotage his chances. One step forward, two step backward. First, suck TTT w/ sucks team + claimed dehydrated on stage 2. Then crashed. Finally bounce back with good ride on the weekend. Then things get really rossy with the ambush. Left on 25 freakin' second behind Froome!!!. Then stood his ground on the toughest mountain stage. Then ITT ... wrong gear!!!..... ow gosh.. (don't know what to think of that...)

Now we are all hoping that he can win tomorrow's stage. Who is he going to drop? Konig, Scarponi or who? Sky isn't going to let the ambush happen for 2nd time. So far, Contador can't drop Froome or Quintana either. I'm a little annoyed with this step forward, then backward. As if Contador didn't really focus as much as he should be. Is the contract thing weighting heavy on his mind? or something else? I just found.. him a bit off on this Vuelta. He doesn't have the same belly fire like 2014. Of course I'm not physic..

 

[thehook]

IMHO...I cannot see Movistar signing AC. They are loaded for GT's. Nairo & Valverde.

I'm guessing that AC's Trek deal. As has been eluded to here. Is not a concrete $ amount. Meaning. And it would have been a wise move by TREK. To give AC an open ended deal. Meaning the final salary for next season is based on his Vuelta Placing.
Make great buisness sense for TREK. "You want 3million, we offer 2. You win LaVuelta.....3 million, 3rd place 2.25, 2nd 2.5....we also put in a tour bonus for win at 500k. That brings you 3million.

I also could see that bonus being for a GT win. Meaning TREK has Segafredo an Italian Co-Title sponsor. 100 Edition GIRO might mean ALOT to them. "AC go win us the GIRO..."

By AC riding the LaVuelta at less then 100% after the Tour due to injuries there. He gets to earn his deal for next season at a higher $ value. And TREK also gets a GT in his fitness to finish the Season. So he comes into GIRO HOT!

A WIN/WIN for both parties...IMHO
Smart business move.

And this is just another dumb theory of mine. So i'm looking for a new bike. Checking out the new Roubaix. And I see Specialized is carrying the AC Edition Chrome Tarmac Frameset. For 2017. Could he be staying in the family? Merida via Lampre?

 

[silvergrenade]

Found another excuse for his bad performance. Good going.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Very disappointing showing from Alberto against the clock. Would have needed to be at least a minute closer to Froome for a pass mark here. I actually thought that he might beat him in this stage...

This - more than any other stage - suggests that he is past it now as a true contender of Froome and Quintana. I hope that he rides the Giro next year. Though that's not to say that either of the big two won't race it. But it is the 100th edition after all, and if one goes in the Giro whilst the other rides the Tour, there will still be more other secondary contenders at the Tour. Plus the Giro naturally brings up more inconsistency than the Tour; I would give Alberto more chance against Chris in Italy than in France.

And as for this Vuelta, the third place is pretty good. Really. Contador should be very proud of himself. It will mean that he will have been on the step of a GT podium every year for the past ten years (except for 2013 of course).

 

[LaFlorecita]

This thread..............

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

 

[LaFlorecita]

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

Now personally I feel he lacks the stamina (he even said so himself), it was very similar to the climbs in this race, he goes too deep and can't keep up the same pace, but the gearing might have played a role as well. I suppose that is an "excuse" as well.

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

 

[bambino]

Re:

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

No, one can always speculate.

But I think people are fairly tired to the fact that AC's fans tends to have a mindset that says "Berto would've easily won the GT, but because of x, y and z mistake/bad luck, some other driver won with luck". That kind of says the winner is not worthy for the win.

The alternative would be: "Berto selected the wrong gear, chapeu for the ones who selected better. They deserve their lead and win, because they played the game better".

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Really. Contador should be very proud of himself. It will mean that he will have been on the step of a GT podium every year for the past ten years (except for 2013 of course).

Oh my gosh, can you believe it really some of us fans are just embarrassing: for the past years we've said "he's won 9 GTs in 9 years"; "he won at least 1 GT in every year since 2007 except for 2013" and now for once he doesn't win and it gets changed to "he's been on the podium every year except 2013"

No offense but that really infuriates me, he's a great champion and this degrading his entire career and legacy based on a single season in the twilight of his career in which he's had loads of bad luck is really ridiculous.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

But I think people are fairly tired to the fact that AC's fans tends to have a mindset that says "Berto would've easily won the GT, but because of x, y and z mistake/bad luck, so some other driver won with luck". That kind of says the winner is not worthy for the win.

The alternative would be: "Berto selected the wrong gear, chapeu for the ones who selected better. They deserve their lead and win, because they played the game better".

I don't think anyone believes Contador would have "easily" won this race under any circumstances.

As for the second part of your post, this is the Contador thread so logically the focus is on Contador and not on the other contenders, they have their own threads.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

Don't worry he is expected to improve next year ! Everyone improves near the end of their career of course. Okay there was Horner and Cadel won the Tour at 34 but he came close before that of course.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Really. Contador should be very proud of himself. It will mean that he will have been on the step of a GT podium every year for the past ten years (except for 2013 of course).

Oh my gosh, can you believe it really some of us fans are just embarrassing: for the past years we've said "he's won 9 GTs in 9 years"; "he won at least 1 GT in every year since 2007 except for 2013" and now for once he doesn't win and it gets changed to "he's been on the podium every year except 2013"

No offense but that really infuriates me, he's a great champion and this degrading his entire career and legacy based on a single season in the twilight of his career in which he's had loads of bad luck is really ridiculous.

No offense but it infuriates you ? No offense but that makes no sense. It is still a fact whatever way you want to take it but of course it is small potatoes when you look at his entire career.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

Now personally I feel he lacks the stamina (he even said so himself), it was very similar to the climbs in this race, he goes too deep and can't keep up the same pace, but the gearing might have played a role as well. I suppose that is an "excuse" as well.

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

But you can clearly see where I am going, can't you? Its just the same over and over again and it is tiring to read. I don't consider myself a fan of his, but I like him and its extremely hard at times to do that when there is found an excuse for performing badly/worse than expected consistently. Its the same pattern.

But if its true, well, he ONLY has himself to thank for that. Danish commentators saying he and Quintana even reconned it in winter and he has most likely been out on the course before this Vuelta again. Considering he has won 7 or 9 GTs and has the most experience out of any in the peloton of anything related to winning GT's, this can't happen. But how much are we talking about - 20, 30 seconds? As you said his ITT looked very familiar to his climbing in this Vuelta, lacking a bit stamina in the end to keep it going.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

But I think people are fairly tired to the fact that AC's fans tends to have a mindset that says "Berto would've easily won the GT, but because of x, y and z mistake/bad luck, so some other driver won with luck". That kind of says the winner is not worthy for the win.

The alternative would be: "Berto selected the wrong gear, chapeu for the ones who selected better. They deserve their lead and win, because they played the game better".

I don't think anyone believes Contador would have "easily" won this race under any circumstances.

As for the second part of your post, this is the Contador thread so logically the focus is on Contador and not on the other contenders, they have their own threads.

You can't even believe that yourself. There are loads of one eyed people in this thread who simply thinks AC has been superior, but only because of shitty team/dehydration/crash/wrong gear he is not in 5 minute lead.

And those are btw. all just part of racing and others have done it better, thus they lead.


As for the second part of your reply, that is exactly the mindset I'm talking about. Don't talk here about AC losing because others were actually better, because the only purpose of this thread is to worship a god called Albero Contador.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No offense but it infuriates you ? No offense but that makes no sense. It is still a fact whatever way you want to take it but of course it is small potatoes when you look at his entire career.

Not the fact itself infuriates me, the way that fact is presented as if it were some sort of accomplishment and worthy of praise infuriates me, Contador was on the top of the podium 9 times in 9 years, that is a grand achievement, degrading his previous results to make it seem like this podium somehow adds a whole bunch to his legacy "10 podiums in 10 years" (!?!?) stinks of a lack of respect to me. I know gregrowlerson doesn't dislike Contador which makes it worse, he should know better.

It's fair to applaud a rider who's finished 3rd 4 times, 2nd 5 times and 1st once in 10 years for getting 10 podiums in 10 years. It's fair to say a 3rd place would be a good result for Contador under these circumstances (still one stage to go, he might as well finish 4th). However; to claim this is a great result and Contador can be proud because he now has "10 podiums in 10 years" as if there's some kind of continuity? That's just really silly.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

You forgot the 200 HR. :lol: :lol: