Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[bambino]

Re: Re:

But I think people are fairly tired to the fact that AC's fans tends to have a mindset that says "Berto would've easily won the GT, but because of x, y and z mistake/bad luck, so some other driver won with luck". That kind of says the winner is not worthy for the win.

The alternative would be: "Berto selected the wrong gear, chapeu for the ones who selected better. They deserve their lead and win, because they played the game better".

I don't think anyone believes Contador would have "easily" won this race under any circumstances.

As for the second part of your post, this is the Contador thread so logically the focus is on Contador and not on the other contenders, they have their own threads.

You can't even believe that yourself. There are loads of one eyed people in this thread who simply thinks AC has been superior, but only because of shitty team/dehydration/crash/wrong gear he is not in 5 minute lead.

And those are btw. all just part of racing and others have done it better, thus they lead.


As for the second part of your reply, that is exactly the mindset I'm talking about. Don't talk here about AC losing because others were actually better, because the only purpose of this thread is to worship a god called Albero Contador.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No offense but it infuriates you ? No offense but that makes no sense. It is still a fact whatever way you want to take it but of course it is small potatoes when you look at his entire career.

Not the fact itself infuriates me, the way that fact is presented as if it were some sort of accomplishment and worthy of praise infuriates me, Contador was on the top of the podium 9 times in 9 years, that is a grand achievement, degrading his previous results to make it seem like this podium somehow adds a whole bunch to his legacy "10 podiums in 10 years" (!?!?) stinks of a lack of respect to me. I know gregrowlerson doesn't dislike Contador which makes it worse, he should know better.

It's fair to applaud a rider who's finished 3rd 4 times, 2nd 5 times and 1st once in 10 years for getting 10 podiums in 10 years. It's fair to say a 3rd place would be a good result for Contador under these circumstances (still one stage to go, he might as well finish 4th). However; to claim this is a great result and Contador can be proud because he now has "10 podiums in 10 years" as if there's some kind of continuity? That's just really silly.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

You forgot the 200 HR. :lol: :lol:

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

No offense but it infuriates you ? No offense but that makes no sense. It is still a fact whatever way you want to take it but of course it is small potatoes when you look at his entire career.

Not the fact itself infuriates me, the way that fact is presented as if it were some sort of accomplishment and worthy of praise infuriates me, Contador was on the top of the podium 9 times in 9 years, that is a grand achievement, degrading his previous results to make it seem like this podium somehow adds a whole bunch to his legacy "10 podiums in 10 years" (!?!?) stinks of a lack of respect to me. I know gregrowlerson doesn't dislike Contador which makes it worse, he should know better.

It's fair to applaud a rider who's finished 3rd 4 times, 2nd 5 times and 1st once in 10 years for getting 10 podiums in 10 years. It's fair to say a 3rd place would be a good result for Contador under these circumstances (still one stage to go, he might as well finish 4th). However; to claim this is a great result and Contador can be proud because he now has "10 podiums in 10 years" as if there's some kind of continuity? That's just really silly.

Growler is usually a fair poster and I don't think it is meant to denigrate Contador in any way. Maybe it could have been worded better.

 

[Red Rick]

There usually is something to keep hope alive. Malhao, Col d'eze, and the backside of the Arrate for example. I'm not praising his tactical brilliance here. He's been riding more on guts and heart than on brains. I don't think the gearing cost him a minute. I think the tt reflects his current form fairly well. It's a relatively flat, windy tt, and with his best flat tt days long behind him, I think getting 8th is a respectable result. Only 30s off from 3rd. Maybe the gearing will cost you the odd 20 seconds if its true. Seems to me can bee too stubborn to make certain adjustments.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

l
You can't even believe that yourself. There are loads of one eyed people in this thread who simply thinks AC has been superior, but only because of shitty team/dehydration/crash/wrong gear he is not in 5 minute lead.

Are you serious? To me it seems like most of his fans in this thread feel he's past it and should retire

As for the second part of your reply, that is exactly the mindset I'm talking about. Don't talk here about AC losing because others were actually better, because the only purpose of this thread is to worship a god called Albero Contador.

What? I've said many times that Alberto is simply not good enough for some reason. I don't know what reason, but I know he does not look as strong as I (and many others probably) expected him to be. I can only speculate. Did he go through an intense and rapid age-related decline since spring? Did he mess up his preparation? Did the crashes hurt him more than we think/know? Did he get infected by a mysterious virus? Did aliens amputate his legs and sew on a different pair? Is his dog ill?
Personally I feel it is a mix of the crashes and his age, I think his age made it so he didn't recover from his injuries in the Tour as quickly as he would have liked and with a slightly lower level plus another crash at the Vuelta he simply isn't strong enough to win. Could he have beaten Froome and Quintana if he'd been as strong as I'd expected? I have no clue and we will never find out.

Of course you can post about Contador losing in here, however I don't see why everyone in this thread (the Contador discussion thread) should stop focusing on Contador's performance and instead focus on praising Froome and Quintana. It seems to me there are other threads more suited to those kinds of posts.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Seems to me can bee too stubborn to make certain adjustments.

Oh I agree, he is very stubborn and just flat out refuses to change to more modern or better approaches.

I also agree that the TT reflects his form but he could have gone a little faster if it's true he started with a 54x11.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

You forgot the 200 HR. :lol: :lol:

what the hell, I also can not get nearly 200...and i was born in 1989, seven years after him. He risked a heart attack :lol:

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I call it ******. There's always an excuse.

Its really laughable to think about. Contador, being the great, great champion that he is and winner of 7 or 9 GTs has made these almost amateurish mistakes which has hampered his chances greatly of winning according to some:

- Dehydrating on stage 2, apparently
- Crashed without reason on stage 7
- Bonked on Covadonga after apparently being the 2nd best climber
- Choosing wrong gears in an ITT

Have I forgot anything? There's ALWAYS something to keep the hope alive, the dream going. Ugh.

You forgot the 200 HR. :lol: :lol:

what the hell, I also can not get nearly 200...and i was born in 1989, seven years after him. He risked a heart attack :lol:

That's just so dependent on genetics and says very little imo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

That's just so dependent on genetics and says very little imo.

Well after the Burgos TT he said his HR had been quite high for his standards, 182 BPM (IIRC) so with him reaching 200 BPM on Ezaro I guess we should be happy he didn't drop dead

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

No offense but it infuriates you ? No offense but that makes no sense. It is still a fact whatever way you want to take it but of course it is small potatoes when you look at his entire career.

Not the fact itself infuriates me, the way that fact is presented as if it were some sort of accomplishment and worthy of praise infuriates me, Contador was on the top of the podium 9 times in 9 years, that is a grand achievement, degrading his previous results to make it seem like this podium somehow adds a whole bunch to his legacy "10 podiums in 10 years" (!?!?) stinks of a lack of respect to me. I know gregrowlerson doesn't dislike Contador which makes it worse, he should know better.

It's fair to applaud a rider who's finished 3rd 4 times, 2nd 5 times and 1st once in 10 years for getting 10 podiums in 10 years. It's fair to say a 3rd place would be a good result for Contador under these circumstances (still one stage to go, he might as well finish 4th). However; to claim this is a great result and Contador can be proud because he now has "10 podiums in 10 years" as if there's some kind of continuity? That's just really silly.

Flo, I meant no offence. I wasn't attempting to degrade his career as a whole by lumping in this Vuelta with his previous GT accomplishments. Although rereading what I wrote I can see how you could see it that way.

I think that when we rate a rider and their career, much of it can be based on a) peak level, and b) longevity of a very good level. Clearly this isn't Contador at peak level, but it's still a very good level. Especially given the bad crash at the Tour, plus another crash at the Vuelta in stage 7 (when at that moment a top five finish looked almost out of the question); his overall performance at this Vuelta has been somewhat heroic, and has - IMO - only added to his legacy. As a Contador fan I also rate his overall results at the 2011 and 2015 Tours highly. And especially the way that he rode them, his attacking attitude, was most admirable.

Now should he continue on beyond this season? Well of course he should if he wants to, that is his right. But how/will it affect his legacy? To me it won't degrade it no matter what he does, though I wouldn't want to see him dropping five plus minutes on every high mountain stage either. But let's say that he earns another GT podium next year, and then a top five finish in 2018, then that's pretty awesome. We could even then include his much derided 2013 Tour result and say "twelve consecutive years with a top five GT GC result".

But nine grand tours in nine years is of course even better.

And he hasn't 100% lost this Vuelta yet, and if he races next season then there is a chance that he can win another GT then also.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Isn't it very common to have that high (also higher) BPM on a TTT when you fx. take a pull? My only reference is myself and taking pulls in group rides is around 170-185 BPM. Then you factor in how explosive such a TTT is compared to 70 km in decent amateur tempo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Right, that's fair enough I suppose. Sorry for jumping on you

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

That's just so dependent on genetics and says very little imo.

Well after the Burgos TT he said his HR had been quite high for his standards, 182 BPM (IIRC) so with him reaching 200 BPM on Ezaro I guess we should be happy he didn't drop dead

I meant comparing to other people means very little. Obviously, Contador should know his own heart rates and what they mean. But something like max heart rate alone says nothing. That said, hear rate should max out higher during shorter efforts and interval like stuff generally.

 

[buchanan]

Alberto would have known exactly what gears to ride on that course. He would have reconnoitered it a few times. Absolute nonsense that someone as experienced as him, with input from his team and teammates as well, would suddenly find himself riding the 'wrong' gears. To his credit, he hasn't used that as an excuse (as far as I'm aware).

His form simply isn't there and we've seen it all Vuelta. Not sure why that should be, because he should have been relatively fresh and he was also coming off a confidence boosting win in Burgos. Maybe the accident on stage 7 had some effect, but he was already off the pace on the climb on stage 2. And his team have not made a thing of the crash affecting him. Just seems the form is not there. I was actually quite shocked to see Froome take 2 minutes on him, given how tired Froome ought to be at this stage of a long season. That is pretty demoralising.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

l
You can't even believe that yourself. There are loads of one eyed people in this thread who simply thinks AC has been superior, but only because of shitty team/dehydration/crash/wrong gear he is not in 5 minute lead.

Are you serious? To me it seems like most of his fans in this thread feel he's past it and should retire

As for the second part of your reply, that is exactly the mindset I'm talking about. Don't talk here about AC losing because others were actually better, because the only purpose of this thread is to worship a god called Albero Contador.

What? I've said many times that Alberto is simply not good enough for some reason. I don't know what reason, but I know he does not look as strong as I (and many others probably) expected him to be. I can only speculate. Did he go through an intense and rapid age-related decline since spring? Did he mess up his preparation? Did the crashes hurt him more than we think/know? Did he get infected by a mysterious virus? Did aliens amputate his legs and sew on a different pair? Is his dog ill?
Personally I feel it is a mix of the crashes and his age, I think his age made it so he didn't recover from his injuries in the Tour as quickly as he would have liked and with a slightly lower level plus another crash at the Vuelta he simply isn't strong enough to win. Could he have beaten Froome and Quintana if he'd been as strong as I'd expected? I have no clue and we will never find out.

Of course you can post about Contador losing in here, however I don't see why everyone in this thread (the Contador discussion thread) should stop focusing on Contador's performance and instead focus on praising Froome and Quintana. It seems to me there are other threads more suited to those kinds of posts.

I think you are right. Crashes and age. Fitness wise he should be good but the body always make adjustments for injuries and this effects recovery. Even bruising and cuts can take a toll when you are talking about athletes that are closely matched and of course riding in pain also has to have an effect. The fact that he had crashes in the Tour and the Vuelta was not ideal for recovery. Age of course is something that can't be controlled and riders feel the difference but may think it is just tiredness or fatigue but when the performances don't improve then it becomes more obvious. Contador has not reached that level yet otherwise he would not be riding for a podium.

 

[lenric]

Re:

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

Now personally I feel he lacks the stamina (he even said so himself), it was very similar to the climbs in this race, he goes too deep and can't keep up the same pace, but the gearing might have played a role as well. I suppose that is an "excuse" as well.

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

This is the Alberto Contador discussion thread. Not the Alberto Contador appreciation thread, so everyone's entitled to criticize/praise him. Which is perfectly normal.

By the way, the tendency of the Contador horde to look for explanations is so ridiculous that makes rocket science seem a piece of cake.
If Contador chose wrongly the gear, that isn't an explanation for underperforming yesterday. It's even worst than not having the legs. Which he didn't. A guy like him with all the experience he has and making rookie mistakes is just plain stupid and completely irrational.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

That's just so dependent on genetics and says very little imo.

Well after the Burgos TT he said his HR had been quite high for his standards, 182 BPM (IIRC) so with him reaching 200 BPM on Ezaro I guess we should be happy he didn't drop dead

Brava. Well said .

 

[Red Rick]

Absolutely, but that also means everyone should be able to think what they want without being referred to as a 'horde'

 

[lenric]

Re:

Absolutely, but that also means everyone should be able to think what they want without being referred to as a 'horde'

Don't know what's wrong with it, but if you don't like it, then add it to the list of forbidden words. It isn't the first time that word has appeared here, yet it's the first time its appearance has been criticized.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

Now personally I feel he lacks the stamina (he even said so himself), it was very similar to the climbs in this race, he goes too deep and can't keep up the same pace, but the gearing might have played a role as well. I suppose that is an "excuse" as well.

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

This is the Alberto Contador discussion thread. Not the Alberto Contador appreciation thread, so everyone's entitled to criticize/praise him. Which is perfectly normal.

By the way, the tendency of the Contador horde to look for explanations is so ridiculous that makes rocket science seem a piece of cake.
If Contador chose wrongly the gear, that isn't an explanation for underperforming yesterday. It's even worst than not having the legs. Which he didn't. A guy like him with all the experience he has and making rookie mistakes is just plain stupid and completely irrational.

I completely agree with this post - basically what I've said.

 

[Miburo]

Really ashamed to be a fan of Contador today, wtf is this?

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

What the hell. We know Froome and Quintana rode with 56x11. We know Contador loves to ride TTs with a 54x11. We know Contador struggled to keep the same pace in the flatter part of the TT which is where a bigger gear would have been more useful. Is the conclusion that he could have picked the wrong gear really so out of this world?

Now personally I feel he lacks the stamina (he even said so himself), it was very similar to the climbs in this race, he goes too deep and can't keep up the same pace, but the gearing might have played a role as well. I suppose that is an "excuse" as well.

I know some really hate all the "excuses" but it's normal behavior to look for an explanation when something defies expectation.

This is the Alberto Contador discussion thread. Not the Alberto Contador appreciation thread, so everyone's entitled to criticize/praise him. Which is perfectly normal.

By the way, the tendency of the Contador horde to look for explanations is so ridiculous that makes rocket science seem a piece of cake.
If Contador chose wrongly the gear, that isn't an explanation for underperforming yesterday. It's even worst than not having the legs. Which he didn't. A guy like him with all the experience he has and making rookie mistakes is just plain stupid and completely irrational.

I completely agree with this post - basically what I've said.

He didn't choose the wrong gear. There is no evidence that happened. Someone just made it up and decided to post it here as a 'fact'.

Agree that this is supposed to be the Alberto Contador discussion thread - not the Alberto Contador appreciation thread. It's actually probably a good idea to have two separate threads: - a discussion thread and an appreciation/worship thread.

 

[LaFlorecita]

 

[Matteo.]

Very bad. It was almost impossible lose the podium , but he did. I really can't understand how people continue to believe he could WIN another GT.
i think he can entertains us with some good actions like stage 15 or small race win , but GT's matter is gone