Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

This thread should start to go into hibernation soon considering it's finally over with Tinkoff unless they force him to ride Lombardia like they did with the Vuelta.

Huh? Pretty sure it was his own choice to ride the Vuelta

If you say so but he wanted to end his season at the Olympics. Unable to ride them, he had to ride Vuelta. He wasn't in the conditions to ride the race, not in his state.

Afaik, Contador has mentioned the Vuelta as likely all season long

 

[trevim]

Today is obviously a bad day for Contador but the truth is while he had a decent first part of the season that could have given him 3 WT major stage races, he never showed anything like that in the Tour or this Vuelta. I don't think he would've beaten Froome or Quintana but those crashes and a really bad team took something out of him both mentally and phisically.

Still Alberto is my favourite rider and I'm sure he'll entertain us all tomorrow trying to "lead out" Bennatti

 

[Red Rick]

Still Alberto is my favourite rider and I'm sure he'll entertain us all tomorrow trying to "lead out" Bennatti

Oh yess, forgot that. Should be awesome. Adam Hansen is already practising his 'go home Alberto, you're drunk' face

 

[fantomas]

Crashes are no serious excuse, other than the fact that they take an increasingly hard toll, the older you get.

AC is no longer the rider I fell for in 2005, and I started coming to terms with that in 2012 - seeing him not being able to drop J-Rod and Valverde - even more so in 2013, then seeing my hopes rise again in 2014, only to have any hope crushed since then.

No matter what happens from now on, he'll still stand out, when history is written. Seeing Froome trying to drop Quintana made me think of Contador and Rasmussen in 2007, only back then in 2007 Contador did multiple sustained efforts. Epic.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

Crashes are no serious excuse, other than the fact that they take an increasingly hard toll, the older you get.

AC is no longer the rider I fell for in 2005, and I started coming to terms with that in 2012 - seeing him not being able to drop J-Rod and Valverde - even more so in 2013, then seeing my hopes rise again in 2014, only to have any hope crushed since then.

No matter what happens from now on, he'll still stand out, when history is written. Seeing Froome trying to drop Quintana made me think of Contador and Rasmussen in 2007, only back then in 2007 Contador did multiple sustained efforts. Epic.

Yep, Contador hasn't been the same rider since 2011. But the best don't give in easily. He kept trying to get back that level and covered his decline through attacking no matter what and he won my respect for that. He won three more Grand Tours with attacking riding and superior 3rd week recovery rather than shear strength that he had up until the 2011 Giro. Some claim he was at pre ban levels for 2014. I don't buy that minor stage races are not an indication of form needed to win the Tour de France against Sky or even Nibali in that year.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Really ashamed to be a fan of Contador today, wtf is this?

Why ashamed ? He gave it his best. What it does highlight is how mediocre his team is. Some people have been saying that Orica have been bad ! Tinkoff were rubbish in the Tour and have been just as bad in the Vuelta apart from one or two stages. Too bad Sanchez crashed out as I think he would have given some help to Contador, enough to make a difference to make the podium.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Crashes are no serious excuse, other than the fact that they take an increasingly hard toll, the older you get.

AC is no longer the rider I fell for in 2005, and I started coming to terms with that in 2012 - seeing him not being able to drop J-Rod and Valverde - even more so in 2013, then seeing my hopes rise again in 2014, only to have any hope crushed since then.

No matter what happens from now on, he'll still stand out, when history is written. Seeing Froome trying to drop Quintana made me think of Contador and Rasmussen in 2007, only back then in 2007 Contador did multiple sustained efforts. Epic.

I beg to differ with your opening statement (bolded). I don't know if you remember the nights after the last time you fell, or if you ride at all. Falling is serious. Not resting at night, no recovery because you can't find a good spot is serious. And when you finally fall asleep, then you wake up and you have to pull the glued sheet from your body, it's serious. C'mon man...

Having said that, I stand by my statement: if you're Alberto Contador, famous for "second place is not good", how about fourth? I was predicting/wishing that Berto would win the TdF, then the Vuelta, leave on top. Instead, if he continues, we'll see Ali in the '80's or Borg's failed comebacks, it will be painful. Federer. Or Merckx in '77: 6th place is not good. Is it?

Contador is the third best GT rider, right now. Hoping that he dodges the other two and win another GT is setting the bar really low IMO. The tales of going for a polka dot jersey ("he would look good"), give me a break . He's not Roche or Delgado: he's fre..ing Alberto Contador.

I understand his fans. I was watching the Borg comebacks, I wanted him to win again. In retrospect, that was selfish of me. Nostalgia. Yes, Contador will decide, he's not going to listen to me. His call. Not ours, not mine. I think he's smart enough to draw his own conclusions.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

There's two things that could be going on here

1) He's at his current best and he went from winning one of the stage races with the best field in convincing fashion to getting dropped all over the place by the likes of Chaves in little over 4 months.
2) He's not as good as he can be right now, in which case the following questions are a) Why? and b) by how much?

He's been affected by either crashes or fatigue in all GT's he's done in the past 2 years. The question is how much that affected him.

I would like to see him take a page out of the Froome play book, and do a slower build up toward the GTs he contests. I don't think his days of winning GTs are definitely behind him, but it's clear that the days in which he could miss his peak slightly and still win because of sheer class definitely are. He should do everything to maximize his chances of peaking right. I remember being pretty mad when he missed out on PN and very excited when he won PV, but frankly now these results matter very little. For a rider like him, the GTs are what matters.

I'm kinda in dubio whether I'd rather see him go to the Giro or the Tour. Mostly because I'm kinda unsure about what his peak level is right now. I'm leaning toward the Giro, but nevertheless I'll be excited for the any GT he'll ride anyway. Unless it's once again the Tour after riding the Giro. I'd rather not see that again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Contador probably had the most chance of winning the Giro this year as it was probably the weakest of the three races performance wise and without Froome or Quintana but I have the feeling he will target the Tour next year and look for the podium at least which realistically is probably his best level at the moment. But as we have seen with the Giro and the Vuelta both races turned on one stage and in a three week race most things have to go right to win as Contador understands better than most people.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Rough year. Hate to say it, but I guess I agree with (almost) everyone else: he should target the Giro next year. While it's sad to see him targeting the race the top two current GC riders are not targeting, he for whatever reason seems unable to peak and stay on his bike for the Tour. Better to go for the victory in the prestigious 100th Giro. I really hope his only goal for this next team, whoever it may be, is strength of team. Forget the money, forget the friendships, forget the personal issues; make whatever sacrifices are necessary to get a strong, balanced team focused 100% on supporting him. One can only hope. It's ridiculous watching him ride with seemingly B-level teams year after year. While I think he's definitely past the height of his powers, he surely could pull a Wiggo 2012 if he had Sky 2012 (and Froome 2012) dragging his ass through. Plus he has the magic that wiggo never had.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re:

Contador and Nibali on one team is like a dream.

yup. just like fignon and bugno.

de vlaeminck and moser.

those worked out stunningly well, if i recall.

;-)

 

[gregrowlerson]

So Contador failed to finish on the podium because of the team time trial, the lack of work done by Moviestar to Formigal, and their lack of support for Alberto on stage 20???

No. If Contador had done just a half decent (for his standards) individual time trial then he would have finished third. Froome is good, but almost two minutes behind over 37kms is not good.

And Moviestar owed Contador nothing. Tinkoff worked on stage 15 because it was in their own best interests. In fact if Moviestar hadn't also acted in their own best interests (with Valverde driving the second group so as to destroy Sky) then the entire ambush would have likely amounted to nothing, and Contador would have ended up losing time to both Quintana and Chaves on the final climb. Also the suggestion that Moviestar might have helped Contador when Chaves was five minutes behind on GC and only two minutes up the road is absurd, especially given that Froome was still a minor threat for the red jersey.

 

[Billie]

Surely the most dissapointing GT for Contador. In 2011, 2013, 2015 Tour he was always unlikely to win but this Vuelta should've always been his

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

I would prefer to see Contador and Nibali in the same team.

Would be nice but I don't see it happening now, it really sounds like the deal with Trek is done and dusted. I hate hate hate where the money for the Bahrain team comes from but it seems like a nice bunch of riders and for some odd reason I'd like Contador to be a bit of a "bad guy" and go for the big bucks.

Let's not pretend the money of other teams is so clean, putting yourself in a socalled righteous position is typical for the left.

Money is money.

first time I read a good post by miburo

 

[Pricey_sky]

Not sure if already mentioned but did anyone else catch his interview at the end of the ITV 4 highlights show last night?

At the end the reporter (I think Friebe) asked if he can come back and win the Vuelta next year. He simply replied 'The Tour, The Tour'.

Seems he has his target for next season.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Not sure if already mentioned but did anyone else catch his interview at the end of the ITV 4 highlights show last night?

At the end the reporter (I think Friebe) asked if he can come back and win the Vuelta next year. He simply replied 'The Tour, The Tour'.

Seems he has his target for next season.

Of course it's his unfinished business and he made it clear he was finished with the Giro when he won last year. His new team will expect him there anyway. When you look at his record it's quite strange to see the success in the Vuelta and Giro and nothing at all in the Tour for six years for a guy of his ability i mean. But it also underlines how hard it is for everything to go right for three weeks. Reputations are meaningless.

 

[rhubroma]

The moment Ivan Basso became a key figure in Tinkoff's staff I thought AC is doomed.

I don't agree that it's mostly age--Froome is just two years younger, while Valverde 2 years older--but the team, staff, environment, owner. The moment he lost Riis, furthermore, the whole environment was inimical to him winning a GC, or being at his best level. 2014 he was there (poor gearing, and a mechanical on the pave notwithstanding).

True he was already having trouble droping Schleck at the 2010 Tour, but ever since Tinkoff arrived the situation around him deteriorated and, in the meantime, Sky became supersonic. His Giro win last year was a gift from Astana.

As time passes, whether or not AC can return to his best level on a new team and different environment at this stage in his career is questionable. But something major's got to change in the way he's prepared and the support he gets, both in and outside races, for him to have any shot at winning the Tour again. But at this stage of his career...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Not sure if already mentioned but did anyone else catch his interview at the end of the ITV 4 highlights show last night?

At the end the reporter (I think Friebe) asked if he can come back and win the Vuelta next year. He simply replied 'The Tour, The Tour'.

Seems he has his target for next season.

Well yeah, he's said it many times. It's frustating but not unexpected. His pride won't allow him to avoid Froome and Quintana and moreover his team and the sponsors will expect him to be present in the biggest race of the year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

The momment Ivan Basso became a key figure in Tinkoff's staff I thought AC is doomed.

I don't agree that it's mostly age--Froome is just two years younger, while Valverde 2 years older--but the team, staff, environment, owner. The momment he lost Riis, furthermore, the whole environment was inimical to him winning a GC, or being at his best level. 2014 he was there (poor gearing, and a mechanical on the pave notwithstanding).

I don't see why Ivan Basso of all people is the issue in your view? Seems to me like you're rather pointing at the departure of Riis.
As for his age, you can't compare him with other riders, everyone is different and he's been at the top of GC racing for 10 seasons. Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, none of the greats managed to win GTs over a period of 10 or more years. I think that is something to keep in mind.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

The momment Ivan Basso became a key figure in Tinkoff's staff I thought AC is doomed.

I don't agree that it's mostly age--Froome is just two years younger, while Valverde 2 years older--but the team, staff, environment, owner. The momment he lost Riis, furthermore, the whole environment was inimical to him winning a GC, or being at his best level. 2014 he was there (poor gearing, and a mechanical on the pave notwithstanding).

I don't see why Ivan Basso of all people is the issue in your view? Seems to me like you're rather pointing at the departure of Riis.
As for his age, you can't compare him with other riders, everyone is different and he's been at the top of GC racing for 10 seasons. Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, none of the greats managed to win GTs over a period of 10 or more years. I think that is something to keep in mind.

Basso is a lackey and not what AC needs at the moment. He'll be joining Trek-Segafredo though, so no change there.

AC's problem isn't so much age these days (athletes no longer retire at 32, look at Froome), but the complicated nature of his career. He should have had more stability and total focus around him, as per Froome and Sky, but that's always been an issue. Now you can't beat the likes of Sky, if you don't have everyone focused and in top shape. In fact AC and Tinkoff have pretty much been clobbered by the British team as a result.

If I were AC, I'd seriously consider how a hypothetical new situation is going to get the job done and, even, if I'm up for that kind of maniacal perfectionism and sacrifice. Since anything less won't cut it, or even come close to doing so.

The answer to such reflections, should be the criteria upon which he bases his future.

 

[Adam78]

Time to say goodbye

 

[Cookster15]

Yes Froome is just 2 years 5 months younger than AC. But Froome didn't become competitive in Grand Tours until 2011 - at 26. Contador was winning the Tour de France at 24 - that's 9 years. I'm reading a lot of complicated excuses for what we have just seen this Vuelta - remember this is the rider who beat Armstrong in '09 despite the whole team against him and who won the Giro in '08 after sitting on a beach. I prefer occam's razor. Great rider great career a wonderful racer but the writing really is on the wall now. Yes it might be time for his fans to prepare for the inevitable.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think most of us are prepared & bracing ourselves for one more season of heartbreak and the occasional euphoria and then a sad goodbye.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Yes Froome is just 2 years 5 months younger than AC. But Froome didn't become competitive in Grand Tours until 2011 - at 26. Contador was winning the Tour de France at 24 - that's 9 years. I'm reading a lot of complicated excuses for what we have just seen this Vuelta - remember this is the rider who beat Armstrong in '09 despite the whole team against him and who won the Giro in '08 after sitting on a beach. I prefer occam's razor. Great rider great career a wonderful racer but the writing really is on the wall now. Yes it might be time for his fans to prepare for the inevitable.

No excuses, just critical analysis. AC simply doesn't cut it. Now either he's just physically outclassed (which could well be the case), or he's been on the wrong end of things. My feeling is that if he were able to reach a certain competative level as late as 2014, then it's more to do with the latter. But at this stage of his career the obvious question becomes, can he rebuild himself to a level he needs to reach to be competative against Froome and Quintana?

If he honestly thinks he can, then have another go. If not, then he should retire.

 

[LaFlorecita]

This rethoric that he should retire if he can't compete with Froome and Quintana anymore makes me sad. If he enjoys racing and is content with smaller and less important victories as well, then by all means he should continue.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

This rethoric that he should retire if he can't compete with Froome and Quintana anymore makes me sad. If he enjoys racing and is content with smaller and less important victories as well, then by all means he should continue.

Come on, he's a champion. Second is not good.