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Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.Zinoviev Letter said:LaFlorecita said:Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...
"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99
It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.
trevim said:Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.Zinoviev Letter said:LaFlorecita said:Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...
"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99
It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.
I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.sir fly said:I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.
Bye.Miburo said:Alberto winning the tour is done, I'm stepping out of the genjutsu. I recommend all of you to do the same, it's not worth the pain, trust me
Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.jens_attacks said:VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.
Gigs_98 said:And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.sir fly said:I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.
jens_attacks said:trevim said:Not really, I don't remember Mollema climbing better than Poels in the Tour this year.Zinoviev Letter said:LaFlorecita said:Mollema more or less confirmed Berto will start his season in Argentina and Abu Dhabi. Meh...
"Mollema and Contador will hit some of the early season races together, debuting in Argentina and then at Abu Dhabi and split the European stage race calendar ahead of the grand tours."
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/12/news/mollema-race-giro-support-contador-tour_426165#BMqut2iBHMOguYh1.99
It's a big deal though that Mollema will be a domestique rather than a second protected rider at the Tour. If Mollema is even close to his 2016 level, Sky don't automatically have the strongest lieutenant in the race for a change.
VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.
LaFlorecita said:Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.jens_attacks said:VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.
gregrowlerson said:LaFlorecita said:Well yes but it's his own fault. If it was up to me he'd be on Astana but he chose this crap team instead for some reason.jens_attacks said:VERY big difference between riding le tour while peaking or riding le tour after you peaked in il giro. Mollema never did this. Check what nibali done this year. And it's freaking nibali. Bauke will be nowhere in le tour, no help whatsoever for alberto except maybe, a big maybe in the alps. Alberto won't have any teammate when the sky mountain train will drill it and there will be only 15-20 riders left. No one.
2016 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form)
2015 - Won the Giro (didn't get to see peak form)
2014 - Crashed (didn't get to see peak form...okay, some might argue about those three seconds on stage 8 )
2013 - Simply didn't get to see peak form
2012 - Did not start
We don't really know if the sky train is of the greatest concern for Contador anyway. If he is in good form then he won't be needing to go on any attempted 50km out suicide mountain raids. He won't even be needing to put in any surprise attacks in the beginning of apparently pointless medium mountain stages....
He will just need to sit there, behind the train, getting pretty much the same protection from the sky train that Froome is getting. And then when Froome has no more than one more teammate left - and if Alberto is feeling those sensations - he goes. If he has great form - and perhaps if Froome has also declined just a little - then there is no reason why he can't grab 10, 20, 30 seconds somewhere; maybe even on two or three mountain stages.
Now if there were a 50km ITT then Contador would probably have to look at attacking from further than 5kms out (or from 5kms out from the final climb with a descent finish) somewhere. Oh, but wait....there is duck all ITT in next years Tour!
I don't see how Alberto not having a super domestique greatly impacts on his chances negatively. Okay, it would of course be better if he had Poels, or Landa, or Thomas riding for him, but given the fact that there aren't any sort of serious ITT kms here for Froome to gap Contador in big time, then Alberto doesn't necessarily need a fresh Mollema riding for him.
And he shouldn't have either. Given Bauke's performance this year, he has every right to ride for his own GC in a GT. Good on the team for giving him a shot at the Giro next year.
kingjr said:I think Contador is still the strongest GC rider of the 3. Froome can beat him on a climb when he's super, but not by much, and I think Contador is more consistent over 3 weeks, if he manages to stay on his bike. If Froome has one of his not-so-good days Contador can take more out of him than he will lose in a TT.
Gigs_98 said:And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.sir fly said:I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.
Possibly, but mileage affects each rider differently, and a large part of mileage is gonna be training, and we don't know how those stack up. Then you have riders like Valverde who's got tonnes more mileage and still barely seems to decline.Singer01 said:Gigs_98 said:And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.sir fly said:I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.
but with a lot fewer heavy miles in his legs. i think this may greatly benefit froome when it comes to his decline.
Don't think he can if Contador is at his best. He never has.Jspear said:I highly doubt it. Froome can give a pretty good beating to AC on a climb when he's super. Froome might have a not so good day (maybe), but AC probably will as well.
I've heard this argument over and over again, but can anyone even proof that the length of a career really influences the decline of a rider. It probably does but I think age must be way more important and as RedRick has written, if "mileage" would be so important how can riders like Valverde still be so good.Singer01 said:Gigs_98 said:And let's not forget that Froome is only 2.5 years younger than Contador. It's not completely impossible that he will start to decrease. Not likely but but also not 100% impossible. Quintana however has the perfect age for a gt rider and I doubt he will be worse than this year. Still I think Contador has a chance to win the tour. It's a very very small one, but it is there.sir fly said:I agree.Red Rick said:Froome's peak climbing didn't impress me last year, and Contador didn't ride a GT on a legit peak. There's a few other small reason I think he still has a fighting chance.
The train partially depends on who Sky is sending to the Giro. I hope they send Poels and Landa to the Giro. All in all, I think Quintana is a bigger problem than Froome for Contador.
Not that I'll be watching though, but that has other reasons
Contador has to show he can beat Quintana before he challenges Froome.
And you're right about Froome's climbing. It wasn't really impressive... No one was inspiring enough.
but with a lot fewer heavy miles in his legs. i think this may greatly benefit froome when it comes to his decline.
Agree. He is the one with 3rd best chances of winning, Bardet and Chaves should be relatively close to him, but he isn't that far off of Froome/Quintana either on this route. Needs everything to go his way (which you normally needs to win the TdF, at least if you isn't the outstanding favourite).Durden93 said:Contador can still win the tour. He won the Giro with very little help as recently as 2015. Yes, the Giro is different than the tour, and he wasn't competing against Froome and team sky, but nobody is invincible. I don't think Contador is the favourite, or even the second-most likely winner, but he has a chance.