Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Well we know he's here to win, so that's why he ain't gonna drop back in the sprints.

Do we know that? The last I heard from him, he was just hear to get some spark in the legs and to possibly help Mollema. Surely you're not saying that he wasn't being entirely truthful about his reasons for going? :surprised:

The key word in your post is "possibly". That leaves his options open and leaves your last sentence as simply creating drama where there is none.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Well we know he's here to win, so that's why he ain't gonna drop back in the sprints.

Do we know that? The last I heard from him, he was just hear to get some spark in the legs and to possibly help Mollema. Surely you're not saying that he wasn't being entirely truthful about his reasons for going? :surprised:

I'll talk to you tomorrow.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/abu...h-call-sprint-teams-out-for-dangerous-riding/

Contador and Mollema not happy with the way the last 10km were raced. I wonder if there is some sense in Contador just dropping off the back at the end of the flat stages like this. With the stage so easy, and the circuits as they are, it's always going to turn into a frenetic crit at the end - especially with so many top sprinters all wanting to prove a point. Not sure it's worth the risk of mixing it and fighting for GC when crashes are such a high probability. Especially if Mollema is going to be leader - Contador surely should sit out the closing stages and just roll in safely.

Also from the article, I see Contador says he has picked up a throat injury from the hotel air conditioning. :Neutral:

To be fair, Nibali also said that the Hotsteppers train was really reckless and caused the crashes.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/abu...h-call-sprint-teams-out-for-dangerous-riding/

Contador and Mollema not happy with the way the last 10km were raced. I wonder if there is some sense in Contador just dropping off the back at the end of the flat stages like this. With the stage so easy, and the circuits as they are, it's always going to turn into a frenetic crit at the end - especially with so many top sprinters all wanting to prove a point. Not sure it's worth the risk of mixing it and fighting for GC when crashes are such a high probability. Especially if Mollema is going to be leader - Contador surely should sit out the closing stages and just roll in safely.

Also from the article, I see Contador says he has picked up a throat injury from the hotel air conditioning. :Neutral:

To be fair, Nibali also said that the Hotsteppers train was really reckless and caused the crashes.

Sure, I don't dispute that they were reckless. But, I'm just not sure why Contador needs to put himself in that position. The sprinters and trains will always be a bit reckless on stages like these, that are so easy so everyone still has loads of energy and adrenaline coming into the final few kms.

For a rider who crashes way more than most, and who seems to struggle a lot with the effects of them, it seems a strange race to be coming to and then riding amongst the sprint trains. What's the point? Even if he hasn't genuinely come to help Mollema and has ambitions to end up on the overall podium; I'm not sure it's worth the risk for a race which isn't important and isn't offering any decent training benefit.

Anyway, at least tomorrow we should get to see some proper racing. Is it the same climb where Poels crashed on the final corner a couple of years ago? If so, that was quite a tough climb and should at least show us where Contador is at in relation to Nibali and Quintana right now (unless he actually does work for Mollema)!

 

[Flamin]

Bit unrespectful towards a race to just let go off the peloton on an easy flat stage because you're afraid of crashing, but you nailed it that it was a poor call to start in the first place.

 

[rhubroma]

Well that depends on today's outcome. He's come to "work for Mollema," or work for Mollema (I'll let the reader decide), though in either case he has the perfect alibi to just to sit on Quintana and follow his accelleration/s. If he and Mollema can follow, then they have the advantage. If Mollema can't follow then he can play poker for the stage, while being in a good position to win.

Naturally there may be others (Nibali, I doubt he has the form at the moment; Aru, perhaps; Kruljswijk should surprise; Bardet, same as Nibali...).

Whatever the scenarios, AC doesn't have to do anything but mark Quintana. Now we can see if the good form Quintana previously showed was decidedly superior to the good from AC recently showed, or not. At all events, the spectators win, win.

PS: If in the end the outcome is favorable to Contador, then Paris Nice should be sensational.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Well that depends on today's outcome. He's come to "work for Mollema," or work for Mollema (I'll let the reader decide), though in either case he has the perfect alibi to just to sit on Quintana and follow his accelleration/s. If he and Mollema can follow, then they have the advantage. If Mollema can't follow then he can play poker for the stage, while being in a good position to win.

Naturally there may be others (Nibali, I doubt he has the form at the moment; Aru, perhaps; Kruljswijk should surprise; Bardet, same as Nibali...).

Whatever the scenarios, AC doesn't have to do anything but mark Quintana. Now we can see if the good form Quintana previously showed was decidedly superior to the good from AC recently showed, or not. At all events, the spectators win, win.

PS: If in the end the outcome is favorable to Contador, then Paris Nice should be sensational.

Not really. Shape varies quite a bit from race to race. I'd expect Quintana to have turned it a bit down after his sensational effort on Mas de la Costa.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Well that depends on today's outcome. He's come to "work for Mollema," or work for Mollema (I'll let the reader decide), though in either case he has the perfect alibi to just to sit on Quintana and follow his accelleration/s. If he and Mollema can follow, then they have the advantage. If Mollema can't follow then he can play poker for the stage, while being in a good position to win.

Naturally there may be others (Nibali, I doubt he has the form at the moment; Aru, perhaps; Kruljswijk should surprise; Bardet, same as Nibali...).

Whatever the scenarios, AC doesn't have to do anything but mark Quintana. Now we can see if the good form Quintana previously showed was decidedly superior to the good from AC recently showed, or not. At all events, the spectators win, win.

PS: If in the end the outcome is favorable to Contador, then Paris Nice should be sensational.

Not really. Shape varies quite a bit from race to race. I'd expect Quintana to have turned it a bit down after his sensational effort on Mas de la Costa.

I don't think so. Quintana had more time to absorb that effort and build up for this event, which in any case was planned all along. By contrast, Contador went straight from race to race with only time to rest between and this event was a last minute decision (unless, of course, he and Trek thought they'd wait and see how he went in Spain before deciding to bring him or not to the Persian Gulf).

 

[TheYouyou7]

He just made a "Quintana" :lol: :lol:

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

That was quite funny to watch.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

yea its all Mollema's fault

As I said originally Contador will only be looking at Quintana

 

[DFA123]

What a waste of time this has been for Contador, from a sporting perspective. A crash, no significant WT points, soft pedalling up most of the only climb, not really helping Mollema and travelling half way across the world to do rides easier than he would do in training.

Same goes for Quintana and Nibali. It seems like Froome and his team (and maybe Chaves!) is the only top GC rider who actually does the best races for his development rather than following the money. Not sure how the other three expect to surpass him at the Tour, if they're basically taking a week off proper riding at this stage.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

yea its all Mollema's fault

As I said originally Contador will only be looking at Quintana

I don't blame Mollema. Maybe it wasn't the right moment before then. Maybe he should've followed the earlier move. It's a thing he could've done, but tha'ts all in hindsight, and I think the differences in the decision are rather small rather than that it's a huge error.

Contador didn't believe he could drop Quintana, and Quintana didn't want to drag Contador and Nibali to the finish. Fair from both sides.

 

[Matteo.]

nothing to say.
an easy climb in an even easier route, impossible to judge. we'll see in PN

 

[LaFlorecita]

I saw a very strong Berto today

he looked so smooth in the first half of the climb, yes in the final kms I saw a slight grimace on his face when following Quintana's attacks but this must have given him a lot of confidence

as expected he only followed Quintana's wheel, and by shutting down his attacks like this he also helped Mollema, he knew Quintana wouldn't ride on with him on his wheel
I'd say Berto won the psychological battle with Nairito, in the last 2 years Quintana could drop Berto at will but not now

Looking forward to Paris-Nice

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

yea its all Mollema's fault

As I said originally Contador will only be looking at Quintana

I don't blame Mollema. Maybe it wasn't the right moment before then. Maybe he should've followed the earlier move. It's a thing he could've done, but tha'ts all in hindsight, and I think the differences in the decision are rather small rather than that it's a huge error.

Contador didn't believe he could drop Quintana, and Quintana didn't want to drag Contador and Nibali to the finish. Fair from both sides.

I think it's ridiculous from all of them - especially Quintana as he was probably strongest. You put yourself in a position to win the stage first - then start cat and mouse games. Quintana's seen Contador blow up before when following at a steadyish pace (e.g. Covadonga / Formigal); he should have just gone at his own pace - it's not like he offers a massive drafting benefit anyway.

And Contador could have at least tried to attack if he was working for Mollema - to set up the counter on Quintana. Nibali perhaps didn't have the legs. But it was a big fail by all of them really. Can't imagine any of them (or their teams) will be happy with their performance today.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

What a waste of time this has been for Contador, from a sporting perspective. A crash, no significant WT points, soft pedalling up most of the only climb, not really helping Mollema and travelling half way across the world to do rides easier than he would do in training.

Same goes for Quintana and Nibali. It seems like Froome and his team (and maybe Chaves!) is the only top GC rider who actually does the best races for his development rather than following the money. Not sure how the other three expect to surpass him at the Tour, if they're basically taking a week off proper riding at this stage.

Not everything can be objectified into points. I think it was a wise decision to take part in this race - he got to compare himself with Nairo and managed to get some accelerations into his legs along with all the other race kilometers. He did his best to give Mollema a chance to win by keeping Quintana's back, but Mollema failed to respond when Dumoulin sneaked away, unfortunately.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

nothing to say.
an easy climb in an even easier route, impossible to judge. we'll see in PN

Pretty much this. I think this was a test for himself. He'll know more than what we've seen. This race isn't too much of a disruption of training rhythm, it's the first WT stage race after TDU, so I imagine it matters to Trek.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Well that depends on today's outcome. He's come to "work for Mollema," or work for Mollema (I'll let the reader decide), though in either case he has the perfect alibi to just to sit on Quintana and follow his accelleration/s. If he and Mollema can follow, then they have the advantage. If Mollema can't follow then he can play poker for the stage, while being in a good position to win.

Naturally there may be others (Nibali, I doubt he has the form at the moment; Aru, perhaps; Kruljswijk should surprise; Bardet, same as Nibali...).

Whatever the scenarios, AC doesn't have to do anything but mark Quintana. Now we can see if the good form Quintana previously showed was decidedly superior to the good from AC recently showed, or not. At all events, the spectators win, win.

PS: If in the end the outcome is favorable to Contador, then Paris Nice should be sensational.

Not really. Shape varies quite a bit from race to race. I'd expect Quintana to have turned it a bit down after his sensational effort on Mas de la Costa.

I don't think so. Quintana had more time to absorb that effort and build up for this event, which in any case was planned all along. By contrast, Contador went straight from race to race with only time to rest between and this event was a last minute decision (unless, of course, he and Trek thought they'd wait and see how he went in Spain before deciding to bring him or not to the Persian Gulf).

I wish I was able to post before the stage, but obviously, it does. You don't stay on that level for so long, as early as a GT-contender. ESPECIALLY when you seriously are targeting a Giro-Tour double. That would be suicide if Quintana would have held his form/peak for a shitty race such as Abu Dhabi, he would simply burn himself out before the important target, mainly the Tour. There would be nothing in the tank.

I know, everything to make Contador look better. I understand. But form/shape isn't linear - depending on where you are at and most importantly, where you want to at, you increase and decrease your training load. Quite a bit I must add.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What a waste of time this has been for Contador, from a sporting perspective. A crash, no significant WT points, soft pedalling up most of the only climb, not really helping Mollema and travelling half way across the world to do rides easier than he would do in training.

Same goes for Quintana and Nibali. It seems like Froome and his team (and maybe Chaves!) is the only top GC rider who actually does the best races for his development rather than following the money. Not sure how the other three expect to surpass him at the Tour, if they're basically taking a week off proper riding at this stage.

No offense but what a load of rubbish. The riders are pros they know what is best for them. What races does Froome even do?! Apparently, for him, it's best to loaf around in Aus, hide in South Africa for 2 months, get beaten in Catalunya and then finally show his face in Romandie.
Berto, he says he needs races to get speed in his legs, let's believe him
Training for base form, racing for speed. That's it.
He doesn't give a monkey's about WT points of course and he helped Mollema by bringing back Quintana

Paris-Nice will be interesting

 

[Climber123]

Re: Re:

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

yea its all Mollema's fault

As I said originally Contador will only be looking at Quintana

I don't blame Mollema. Maybe it wasn't the right moment before then. Maybe he should've followed the earlier move. It's a thing he could've done, but tha'ts all in hindsight, and I think the differences in the decision are rather small rather than that it's a huge error.

Contador didn't believe he could drop Quintana, and Quintana didn't want to drag Contador and Nibali to the finish. Fair from both sides.

I think it's ridiculous from all of them - especially Quintana as he was probably strongest. You put yourself in a position to win the stage first - then start cat and mouse games. Quintana's seen Contador blow up before when following at a steadyish pace (e.g. Covadonga / Formigal); he should have just gone at his own pace - it's not like he offers a massive drafting benefit anyway.

And Contador could have at least tried to attack if he was working for Mollema - to set up the counter on Quintana. Nibali perhaps didn't have the legs. But it was a big fail by all of them really. Can't imagine any of them (or their teams) will be happy with their performance today.

Contador looks significantly stronger now than at Formigal/Covadinga. He followed him with real ease. Of the three Alberto would be the happiest i reckon.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yeah, only there to test himself. Not losing a psychological game more important than winning the race it seems. Once Mollema went, it was solid tactics, but Mollema went at it too late.

yea its all Mollema's fault

As I said originally Contador will only be looking at Quintana

I don't blame Mollema. Maybe it wasn't the right moment before then. Maybe he should've followed the earlier move. It's a thing he could've done, but tha'ts all in hindsight, and I think the differences in the decision are rather small rather than that it's a huge error.

Contador didn't believe he could drop Quintana, and Quintana didn't want to drag Contador and Nibali to the finish. Fair from both sides.

I think it's ridiculous from all of them - especially Quintana as he was probably strongest. You put yourself in a position to win the stage first - then start cat and mouse games. Quintana's seen Contador blow up before when following at a steadyish pace (e.g. Covadonga / Formigal); he should have just gone at his own pace - it's not like he offers a massive drafting benefit anyway.

And Contador could have at least tried to attack if he was working for Mollema - to set up the counter on Quintana. Nibali perhaps didn't have the legs. But it was a big fail by all of them really. Can't imagine any of them (or their teams) will be happy with their performance today.

Contador looks significantly stronger now than at Formigal/Covadinga. He followed him with real ease. Of the three Alberto would be the happiest i reckon.

Well, it was a medium mountain, relatively comfortable gradients and with all the riders completely fresh, so you'd expect him to follow with ease. Ultimately they both finished a minute behind Rui Costa and are nowhere in the GC in a World Tour race - pretty poor show all around.

 

[Red Rick]

That's what you get by looking at results in isolation.

 

[dacooley]

lame stage. no need to throw coal in anyone's hypetrain.