Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Nacho]

Re: Re:

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

A top-3 or even top-5 on GC is more valuable to the team and sponsors than a handful of top-10's in sprint stages.

I'm talking the likely hood of 1 or 2 top 3's for Degenkolb VS the possibility Contador gets a top-3. I think Degenkolb is more likely. Who do you think more likely?

 

[bajbar]

Re: Re:

Well a guy cracked can hardly attack. None of this changes the very obvious live TV images of Contador churning a big gear seated long dropped from the front group.

If he was soft pedalling, surely he would be dancing behind Valverde. Not so.

"Soft-pedaling" isn't literally spinning a small gear it's not going too far into the red.
He used a big gear to build power in his legs. It was obvious from his body language that he never cracked during this Dauphiné so not a clue how you reached that conclusion.

Indeed. Contador cracking - Ax-3-Domaines 2013 or 2015 PSM (to a lesser extent). Contador NOT cracking but simply not following - Mont du Chat 2017... There is A BIG difference. When he cracks he is dead. Head tilted, shoulders rocking... It was not the case in the Dauphine (even though he looked quite bad in the last stage).

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

A top-3 or even top-5 on GC is more valuable to the team and sponsors than a handful of top-10's in sprint stages.

I'm talking the likely hood of 1 or 2 top 3's for Degenkolb VS the possibility Contador gets a top-3. I think Degenkolb is more likely. Who do you think more likely?

I don't know which is more likely, I think both aren't that unlikely, but:
A 50% chance at a top-3
vs
A 75% chance at 1 or 2 top-3's in stages

The first will be the team's focus

 

[slim charles]

Also, soft pedalling [or however you want to call it] doesn't mean he wasn't feeling it at all. Don't be too literal. It means that he didn't put too high a priority on getting a result at Dauphine.
It is clear, even without him saying it, that he did not prepare to win the Dauphine. Whether that will help him get the result in TdF is another story [hopefully it will], but I absolutely do believe he didn't care much about losing whatever time he lost and ending up outside of top 10

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Well a guy cracked can hardly attack. None of this changes the very obvious live TV images of Contador churning a big gear seated long dropped from the front group.

If he was soft pedalling, surely he would be dancing behind Valverde. Not so.

"Soft-pedaling" isn't literally spinning a small gear it's not going too far into the red.
He used a big gear to build power in his legs. It was obvious from his body language that he never cracked during this Dauphiné so not a clue how you reached that conclusion.

Indeed. Contador cracking - Ax-3-Domaines 2013 or 2015 PSM (to a lesser extent). Contador NOT cracking but simply not following - Mont du Chat 2017... There is A BIG difference. When he cracks he is dead. Head tilted, shoulders rocking... It was not the case in the Dauphine (even though he looked quite bad in the last stage).

He didn't look bad to me in the final stage, honestly

 

[Singer01]

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

Surely there was only one team; a Schleck-led Saxo team. Or, indeed, a Schlecks-led Saxo team.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

Surely there was only one team; a Schleck-led Saxo team. Or, indeed, a Schlecks-led Saxo team.

Well I was really referring to the era he won his Tours in, from 2007 to 2010 (and probably including 2011 in there), so he had to compete with Schleck teams and Trek teams, and Saxo teams and RadioShack teams, and Astana teams, Skil-Shimano teams and Caisse d'Epargne teams.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

CSC? Cancellara had his moments to pursue his interests in time trials and the rare cobbled stage but the team was unified behind the Schlecks.

 

[s.i.]

CSC/Saxo was a good team, but they were nothing like Sky. They had strong captains (Schlecks and Sastre), but not a mountain train controlling the race. Their domestiques where either power houses, like Cance, Larsson and Zabriskie, or mediocre climbers like Cuesta and Anker Sørensen.

 

[skippo12]

Re: Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

I would say that he had the most dominant team during his most dominant years. Having Leipheimer and Klöden in the mountains was huge on occasions although only Klöden really went deep for him while Leipheimer just followed wheels to finish in the top 5. Nevertheless he entered many grand tours knowing that he had two top 10 climbers at his side. The arrival of Armstrong changed the dynamic in 2009 because he took his best helpers with him the year after but in the 2008 Giro and Vuelta + 2009 Tour his team was dominant.

 

[s.i.]

Also remember Navarro destroying everyone except Andy Schleck in the 2010 Tour.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

CSC/Saxo was a good team, but they were nothing like Sky. They had strong captains (Schlecks and Sastre), but not a mountain train controlling the race. Their domestiques where either power houses, like Cance, Larsson and Zabriskie, or mediocre climbers like Cuesta and Anker Sørensen.

The last time there was something like Sky was US Postal/Discovery. CSC was the closest thing to a super team from that period. They were contending for grand tours, winning grand tour stages, winning classics and week long stage races.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

CSC/Saxo was a good team, but they were nothing like Sky. They had strong captains (Schlecks and Sastre), but not a mountain train controlling the race. Their domestiques where either power houses, like Cance, Larsson and Zabriskie, or mediocre climbers like Cuesta and Anker Sørensen.

They had the Schlecks and Sastre, all grand tour podium riders, all made the Tour podium at some point in their career. That is quite a hand to play in the mountains. A mountain train is not the only way to control a race when the road points upward.

 

[s.i.]

I already wrote that they had strong captains. It's the same hand Movistar has now with 2 strong GC riders in Valverde + Quintana. But were they controlling the race? No imo.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I really don't think contadors team matters that much, he will either have the form or not, when he has won he has generally done it by himself anyway.

When he won the Tour, there wasn't a single dominant team in the race. Movistar or Sky, as they are now, unified behind a strong GC leader, will be a different proposition to the Schleck-led Saxo teams he beat in 2009.

Having Pantano and/or at least one other alongside, or up the road in the break, to help out will make a huge difference to his GC chances in the Tour. We saw the difference it made with Dumoulin in the Giro on stages when TenDam could keep up, vs stages when he couldn't. And no way would Froome have won his 3 Tours as comfortably as he did without Poles, Porte etc.

CSC? Cancellara had his moments to pursue his interests in time trials and the rare cobbled stage but the team was unified behind the Schlecks.

What? Cancellara didn't win the cobbled stage because of andy (tour 2010). He was baysitting andy all the time. The 2010 cancellara is the most insane rider I ever seen, the guy smashed everyone in time trials and cobbles

 

[Blanco]

Re:

I already wrote that they had strong captains. It's the same hand Movistar has now with 2 strong GC riders in Valverde + Quintana. But were they controlling the race? No imo.

They controlled the Tour 2008 just fine. The thing is Contador in those days was out of control Btw I agree there was no team like Sky then, like Movistar yes, CSC was not weaker than Movistar today.

 

[s.i.]

True, but in 2008 Contador didn't ride the Tour, though.

 

[Forever The Best]

One last great show Alberto, please. He didn't look very good the whole year but maybe he will do a super-peak, probably not but there are some slim hopes at least. He is probably counted out as a TDF winner, maybe that will motivate him even more. After a horrible 2nd half last year where everything went terrible with many crashes and many 2nd places this year, maybe he has broken down mentally. Or maybe he is relaxed more than ever. Hope he has enough form to contend for the win and not crash this time.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Well a guy cracked can hardly attack. None of this changes the very obvious live TV images of Contador churning a big gear seated long dropped from the front group.

If he was soft pedalling, surely he would be dancing behind Valverde. Not so.

"Soft-pedaling" isn't literally spinning a small gear it's not going too far into the red.
He used a big gear to build power in his legs. It was obvious from his body language that he never cracked during this Dauphiné so not a clue how you reached that conclusion.

Indeed. Contador cracking - Ax-3-Domaines 2013 or 2015 PSM (to a lesser extent). Contador NOT cracking but simply not following - Mont du Chat 2017... There is A BIG difference. When he cracks he is dead. Head tilted, shoulders rocking... It was not the case in the Dauphine (even though he looked quite bad in the last stage).

He didn't look bad to me in the final stage, honestly

Towards the end of the stage he looked bad but nothing major

 

[perico]

Peter Cossins sees Alberto continuing for possibly 3 more years, says he sounds nothing like a rider who is planning on one last hurrah or the last big one before a final farewell Giro/Vuelta in 2018.

 

[StryderHells]

Peter Cossins sees Alberto continuing for possibly 3 more years, says he sounds nothing like a rider who is planning on one last hurrah or the last big one before a final farewell Giro/Vuelta in 2018.

I highly doubt he races on for another 3 years, why would he want to do that? He strikes me as a rider who would like to go out while he's still competitive.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Peter Cossins sees Alberto continuing for possibly 3 more years, says he sounds nothing like a rider who is planning on one last hurrah or the last big one before a final farewell Giro/Vuelta in 2018.

Who is Peter Cossins?
I really don't see him continuing till 2020

 

[Pantani_lives]

Peter Cossins sees Alberto continuing for possibly 3 more years, says he sounds nothing like a rider who is planning on one last hurrah or the last big one before a final farewell Giro/Vuelta in 2018.

Who is Peter Cossins?

A journalist for a quality cycling website.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/author/peter-cossins-1/