Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Thirdly, it's not just about the results in this race, it's about keeping morale in the team high and keeping riders motivated - epsecially ones who are a serious long term investment for the team.

Yeah, seems smart to alienate your GC leader à la Tinkoff. It worked wonders for the morale on that team.

To be fair, the only one with low morale on Tinkoff was Contador. Largely because the owner and half the team despised him. They had a superb Tour last year after he crashed out: 3 stage wins, points jersey, mountains jersey and a top 10 on the GC.

Trek would bite your arm off for even half of that this year.

Trek could easily get half that if they wanted to do.

No they couldn't. Not easily. A couple of stage wins, and a jersey of some kind would be a very, very good race for them. The Tour de France is really, really hard to get anything from. Especially for a team who has just one WT stage win all season.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Thirdly, it's not just about the results in this race, it's about keeping morale in the team high and keeping riders motivated - epsecially ones who are a serious long term investment for the team.

Yeah, seems smart to alienate your GC leader à la Tinkoff. It worked wonders for the morale on that team.

To be fair, the only one with low morale on Tinkoff was Contador. Largely because the owner and half the team despised him. They had a superb Tour last year after he crashed out: 3 stage wins, points jersey, mountains jersey and a top 10 on the GC.

Trek would bite your arm off for even half of that this year.

Trek could easily get half that if they wanted to do.

No they couldn't. Not easily. A couple of stage wins, and a jersey of some kind would be a very, very good race for them. The Tour de France is really, really hard to get anything from. Especially for a team who has just one WT stage win all season.

They could get the KOM with Pantano, top 10 with Contador, and maybe 1 stage aswell

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

Terrible post.

The first mistake you make is assuming that teams only care about winning stages and races. They don't - they care a lot about placings an WT points.

Secondly, the weaker Degenkolb is, the more he needs support from his team. I agree he can't beat these guys mano a mano. But with good tactics and utilizing his team well, he has a chance.

Thirdly, it's not just about the results in this race, it's about keeping morale in the team high and keeping riders motivated - epsecially ones who are a serious long term investment for the team.

First - Well, Trek doesn't come to this Tour with the mindset of Emirates, Bahrain or Cannondale. Since last year, Trek and Contador said that they were coming here to fight for the win, and all has been said so far is that the preparation is going according to plan (will it work? Will see in a month). So, between fighting for the Tour win and fighting for a top-5 in a stage, I'm pretty sure what is going to be Trek priority.

Second - What good tactics? Degenkolb's problems are lack of pure speed in the flat and being weaker than the puncheurs in the hilly finishes. Degenkolb won't attack from far out, if he has 2 or 3 guys committed to him, he has 2 options. One: he uses them to build a sprint train. Result? Trek is not used to have a sprint train and they will get swallowed up by Quick Step and Dimension Data. Two: He uses them to get a good wheel. Result? Lack of pure speed prevent him from winning.

Third - That goes both ways.

Once again. No one is denying that Contador will be Trek's priority. But that doesn't mean they are going to completely abandon Degenkolb on stages which suit him. Of course fighting for a tour win is by far the most important thing, but fighting for stage wins or even top 5s are important as well. And the two aims aren't really mutually exclusive. We've seen plenty of teams before split resources well between a sprinter and a GC rider.

And, if we're being honest, Contador is kind of a long shot to win. You clearly don't put all your eggs in the basket of a guy who hasn't come anywhere near winning the tour for seven years now.

To be honest, with Froome's questionable form this year should be wide open. If the team is as confident in Pistolero's buildup as he is, and I think they would be considering that soft pedaling the Dauphine had been the plan all year, then why would they treat him as a 2nd tier GC rider? With Froome's form in doubt, it could conceivably be a wide open race with no standout favorite. Alberto's age is definitely a factor, but neither Porte nor Valverde are young, and it will be a question of whether they are able to maintain their earlier form. Quintana would have to prove an outlier (going for the double) compared to recent attempts (not to mention that he didn't even win the Giro. Contador, if he has the form, won't be as susceptible to Froome's games the way Porte showed he was at the Dauphine.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

It has absolutely nothing to do with disliking Contador or whatever you are trying to spin it. I just called all those out who actually think that Contador is more likely to win the Tour than Degenkolb is winning one single stage. Its not even close.

Anyways, I don't dislike Contador at all. I just dislike his fans.

I have the same feeling about quintana

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

They could get the KOM with Pantano, top 10 with Contador, and maybe 1 stage aswell

Sure, I agree they certainly have the potential at their best. But I don't think it would be easy to get all that - something like that would be a very, very good result for them imo.

 

[hazaran]

Re: Re:

To be honest, with Froome's questionable form this year should be wide open. If the team is as confident in Pistolero's buildup as he is, and I think they would be considering that soft pedaling the Dauphine had been the plan all year, then why would they treat him as a 2nd tier GC rider? With Froome's form in doubt, it could conceivably be a wide open race with no standout favorite. Alberto's age is definitely a factor, but neither Porte nor Valverde are young, and it will be a question of whether they are able to maintain their earlier form. Quintana would have to prove an outlier (going for the double) compared to recent attempts (not to mention that he didn't even win the Giro. Contador, if he has the form, won't be as susceptible to Froome's games the way Porte showed he was at the Dauphine.

Soft pedaling the Dauphine :lol:

Don't believe everything you read in the media. There was nothing "soft" about Contador doing his best Ullrich impression trying to wrench a massive gear with a bunch of other stragglers on Mont du Chat. There is talking and then there is seeing the tell tale sign of Contador just utterly cracked on the mountain on live TV.

 

[Sciocco]

CONTADOR to win CHAMBERY, PEYRAGUDES, and IZOARD stages on the way to winning GC with 6:24 over second place RAFAL MAJKA.

Then easy VUELTA double with victories at CALAR ALTO and ANGLIRUUUU.

2018 GIRO campione with a hilly TT stage win, retire (unless VUELTA 2018 has PINTO stage).

I believe.

FTH

 

[SHAD0W93]

Re:

CONTADOR to win CHAMBERY, PEYRAGUDES, and IZOARD stages on the way to winning GC with 6:24 over second place RAFAL MAJKA.

Then easy VUELTA double with victories at CALAR ALTO and ANGLIRUUUU.

2018 GIRO campione with a hilly TT stage win, retire (unless VUELTA 2018 has PINTO stage).

I believe.

FTH

This is something I can get behind.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

CONTADOR to win CHAMBERY, PEYRAGUDES, and IZOARD stages on the way to winning GC with 6:24 over second place RAFAL MAJKA.

Then easy VUELTA double with victories at CALAR ALTO and ANGLIRUUUU.

2018 GIRO campione with a hilly TT stage win, retire (unless VUELTA 2018 has PINTO stage).

I believe.

FTH

Nice way to get the thread back on topic.

 

[dacooley]

It's a really tough job to keep oneself from thinking on the level of hype and positive expectations after supporting one of the most successful riders ever over many many years. I wouldn't be very much surprised to see a significantly improved Bertie in comparison with what we eyed in the dauphine. the other question is whether it'll be enough against Porte in the shape of his life, Froome who almost for sure will find 30-50 extra watts and Quintana, whose form won't be much different from the Giro. As far as AC dropping intentionally is concerned, I believe him only for the last stage occasion. TT was clearly a big test, so was Mont du Chat. It wasn't softpedaling in any sense. frankly speaking nobody's capable to finish the dauphine amongst 15 strongest riders whilst softpedaling. no need to delude ourselves.

 

[martijnkh]

Have been reading a lot in this thread about the huge gears he has been riding on climbs this season. I think it looks extremely ugly and also doesn't seem to benefit.
Does anyone have an idea why he has been doing this?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

To be honest, with Froome's questionable form this year should be wide open. If the team is as confident in Pistolero's buildup as he is, and I think they would be considering that soft pedaling the Dauphine had been the plan all year, then why would they treat him as a 2nd tier GC rider? With Froome's form in doubt, it could conceivably be a wide open race with no standout favorite. Alberto's age is definitely a factor, but neither Porte nor Valverde are young, and it will be a question of whether they are able to maintain their earlier form. Quintana would have to prove an outlier (going for the double) compared to recent attempts (not to mention that he didn't even win the Giro. Contador, if he has the form, won't be as susceptible to Froome's games the way Porte showed he was at the Dauphine.

Soft pedaling the Dauphine :lol:

Don't believe everything you read in the media. There was nothing "soft" about Contador doing his best Ullrich impression trying to wrench a massive gear with a bunch of other stragglers on Mont du Chat. There is talking and then there is seeing the tell tale sign of Contador just utterly cracked on the mountain on live TV.

You are clearly clueless.

 

[Roku]

I do think Contador softpedalled in the Dauphine to a certain extent. Despite his statements on interviews (we all know he is sort of a compulsive liar), it is obvious he tried to stay in the wheel of Porte/Froome for as long as possible, but I think he did not want to blew himself (the perfect example was the stage to Plateau de Solaison. When he was at his limit and got distanced, he did not give his maximum to limit the losses).

What position on GC would have achieved or what was his real level on Dauphiné? I rate him similar to Bardet, a notch below the main favourites. Come July he should be fighting for podium, reallisticaly. However, Contador excels in getting the most of his chances. He has been doing it since 2015.

 

[kingjr]

Let Contador stay in Dege's wheel on the flat stages problem solved.

 

[Baldinger]

Contador will be surfing around in the peloton on his own, even if Degenkolb takes on the nursing role. Perhaps a relaxed approach like in Dauphine will pay off. Better loose 15 sec in a split than crash.

 

[Nacho]

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

A top-3 or even top-5 on GC is more valuable to the team and sponsors than a handful of top-10's in sprint stages.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Contador will be surfing around in the peloton on his own, even if Degenkolb takes on the nursing role. Perhaps a relaxed approach like in Dauphine will pay off. Better loose 15 sec in a split than crash.

I hope so. I noticed he did the same in Pais Vasco, although he did crash in that race so it isn't a perfect solution.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

A top-3 or even top-5 on GC is more valuable to the team and sponsors than a handful of top-10's in sprint stages.

And what exactly is a problem with Degenkolb going to the Tour? He needs 2-3 guys in the last 5km of couple of stages, what's a big deal about that? He probably won't win a stage, but why don't try, you never know. It's not that he needs all team to work for him entire stage. Contador is not at his very best, you can clearly see that, so why don't bring Degenkolb then? I certainly would. And that same Degenkolb might be very useful to Contador in some stages, I'm sure he'll be glad to work for him if he's given a shot at couple of stages.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Well, then turn the supposition around: The most likely situation is that Degenkolb won't win a segment, nor Contador be the GC.

In that instance it appears to me that Degenkolb is more likely to get a good placement on a sprint and win a few points than Contador is to get anything. So, then give Degenkolb a few supporters at the last few kilometers of a flat stage in hopes of salvaging something.

A top-3 or even top-5 on GC is more valuable to the team and sponsors than a handful of top-10's in sprint stages.

And what exactly is a problem with Degenkolb going to the Tour? He needs 2-3 guys in the last 5km of couple of stages, what's a big deal about that? He probably won't win a stage, but why don't try, you never know. It's not that he needs all team to work for him entire stage. Contador is not at his very best, you can clearly see that, so why don't bring Degenkolb then? I certainly would. And that same Degenkolb might be very useful to Contador in some stages, I'm sure he'll be glad to work for him if he's given a shot at couple of stages.

Read the last five pages of this thread and you'll see all the pros and cons of taking or leaving support for Degenkolb.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

And what exactly is a problem with Degenkolb going to the Tour? He needs 2-3 guys in the last 5km of couple of stages, what's a big deal about that? He probably won't win a stage, but why don't try, you never know. It's not that he needs all team to work for him entire stage. Contador is not at his very best, you can clearly see that, so why don't bring Degenkolb then? I certainly would. And that same Degenkolb might be very useful to Contador in some stages, I'm sure he'll be glad to work for him if he's given a shot at couple of stages.

I never had an issue with Degenkolb being on the team IF he is happy to help Contador out when necessary. However, he can't get much support because Contador needs all the support he can get on the flat stages.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

And what exactly is a problem with Degenkolb going to the Tour? He needs 2-3 guys in the last 5km of couple of stages, what's a big deal about that? He probably won't win a stage, but why don't try, you never know. It's not that he needs all team to work for him entire stage. Contador is not at his very best, you can clearly see that, so why don't bring Degenkolb then? I certainly would. And that same Degenkolb might be very useful to Contador in some stages, I'm sure he'll be glad to work for him if he's given a shot at couple of stages.

I never had an issue with Degenkolb being on the team IF he is happy to help Contador out when necessary. However, he can't get much support because Contador needs all the support he can get on the flat stages.

Well I'm sure that's doable. Contador is priority of course, but why don't give Degenkolb a chance when opportunity arises. Heck if Valverde and Quintana can work together, while both being GC riders, I don't see one good reason why GC guy and a sprinter can't work together.

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

To be honest, with Froome's questionable form this year should be wide open. If the team is as confident in Pistolero's buildup as he is, and I think they would be considering that soft pedaling the Dauphine had been the plan all year, then why would they treat him as a 2nd tier GC rider? With Froome's form in doubt, it could conceivably be a wide open race with no standout favorite. Alberto's age is definitely a factor, but neither Porte nor Valverde are young, and it will be a question of whether they are able to maintain their earlier form. Quintana would have to prove an outlier (going for the double) compared to recent attempts (not to mention that he didn't even win the Giro. Contador, if he has the form, won't be as susceptible to Froome's games the way Porte showed he was at the Dauphine.

Soft pedaling the Dauphine :lol:

Don't believe everything you read in the media. There was nothing "soft" about Contador doing his best Ullrich impression trying to wrench a massive gear with a bunch of other stragglers on Mont du Chat. There is talking and then there is seeing the tell tale sign of Contador just utterly cracked on the mountain on live TV.

Was just listening to the Cycling Podcast with Richard Moore and Peter Cossins. They met with Contador and De Jong during the Dauphine and De Jong mentioned that Alberto was under strict orders to lay off, and no attacking under any circumstance. This was before the final stage.

 

[hazaran]

Re: Re:

To be honest, with Froome's questionable form this year should be wide open. If the team is as confident in Pistolero's buildup as he is, and I think they would be considering that soft pedaling the Dauphine had been the plan all year, then why would they treat him as a 2nd tier GC rider? With Froome's form in doubt, it could conceivably be a wide open race with no standout favorite. Alberto's age is definitely a factor, but neither Porte nor Valverde are young, and it will be a question of whether they are able to maintain their earlier form. Quintana would have to prove an outlier (going for the double) compared to recent attempts (not to mention that he didn't even win the Giro. Contador, if he has the form, won't be as susceptible to Froome's games the way Porte showed he was at the Dauphine.

Soft pedaling the Dauphine :lol:

Don't believe everything you read in the media. There was nothing "soft" about Contador doing his best Ullrich impression trying to wrench a massive gear with a bunch of other stragglers on Mont du Chat. There is talking and then there is seeing the tell tale sign of Contador just utterly cracked on the mountain on live TV.

Was just listening to the Cycling Podcast with Richard Moore and Peter Cossins. They met with Contador and De Jong during the Dauphine and De Jong mentioned that Alberto was under strict orders to lay off, and no attacking under any circumstance. This was before the final stage.

Well a guy cracked can hardly attack. None of this changes the very obvious live TV images of Contador churning a big gear seated long dropped from the front group.

If he was soft pedalling, surely he would be dancing behind Valverde. Not so.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Well a guy cracked can hardly attack. None of this changes the very obvious live TV images of Contador churning a big gear seated long dropped from the front group.

If he was soft pedalling, surely he would be dancing behind Valverde. Not so.

"Soft-pedaling" isn't literally spinning a small gear it's not going too far into the red.
He used a big gear to build power in his legs. It was obvious from his body language that he never cracked during this Dauphiné so not a clue how you reached that conclusion.