Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[rune1107]

Re: Re:

Bjarne Riis made a point about Contador not training correctly, because "his best weapon/tool to make a difference, is when he is standing on the pedals. Now he stands on the pedals while everyone else is sitting down. His power output when sitting down is not good enough" along those lines (not a precise quote). Besides he said that Contador 2017 isn't Contador 2009, as an answer to the presenter's hopeless question, just to provide some context.

What do you guys make of it? Because I don't know what to think, having Alberto's interviews and riding in mind...

I got angry reading that I liked Bjarne but I hate how he makes it sound as if Berto is somehow at fault for not being as strong as in his best years, as if it's just a matter of not training correctly and age doesn't play a part at all

Did you see it yourself, because you are reading a lot into it as if you knew the tone it was said with.

How should I have seen something that was shown on Danish TV? Anyway have read the accounts of several people so I think I know what he said and what he implied.

Easy Flo. Riis and Alberto are still very much friends, and it was not said with hateful undertones to it. He was asked point blank why Alberto has been declining since 2014, and this was his answer. Read into it or not, but after Riis and AC split up, he never reached the same level. Age 33 or 34 is not a bad age to be a cyclist, and to reach your best form in that age is not impossible. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with Riis, but you cannot debate his talent as a mentor/DS. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Easy Flo. Riis and Alberto are still very much friends, at it was not said with hateful undertones to it. He was asked point blank why Alberto has been declining since 2014, and this was his answer. Read into it or not, but after Riis and AC split up, he never reached the same level. Age 33 or 34 is not a bad age to be a cyclist, and to reach your best form in that age is not impossible. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with Riis, but you cannot debate his talent as a mentor/DS. He knows what he's talking about.

No. Nothing to do with hating Contador or not, it's irresponsible. Riis doesn't know if his decline is due to training, yet he throws it out there as if it's fact. I saw that he said Contador should have trained more in the saddle, well on every video he posted he was in the saddle. Riis has the right to think that Contador training incorrectly is the reason for his lesser shape but he's more than likely wrong. Maybe there's some egoism involved in the sense that Riis likes to think if he were guiding Contador, he would still be in his earth-shattering 2009 form. All signs point to a normal, age-related decline. Contrary to what you seem to suggest it is normal to decline after the age of 31-32 especially for a rider that has been at the top since he was 24. Yes there are riders that reach their career peak at 34 or even later but those are exceptions to the rule.
Another question would be, if they are "very much friends", why hasn't Riis given him some friendly advice on how to train?
It's obvious Contador's climbing is more laboured now and perhaps he does climb out of the saddle more now. It is foolish to suggest that's due to a lack of training or incorrect training methods instead of declining power due to age for a 34-year old rider.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Unless AC changed everything since Bjarne and him forcefully parted ways Riis have to accept circumstances such as age/natural decline have changed the circumstances. Its either that or AC have completly forgot how to prepare for a race and only needed the dane to hold his hand for micromanaging his preparation.

I understand people are getting upset cause it paints AC in a very negative light.

 

[Red Rick]

Riis' theory makes perfect sense. You use a few different muscle groups so if those aren't fresh when you're making a peak effort, that effort is gonna be weaker.

It would also explain weaker flat TTs

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Unless AC changed everything since Bjarne and him forcefully parted ways Riis have to accept circumstances such as age/natural decline have changed the circumstances. Its either that or AC have completly forgot how to prepare for a race and only needed the dane to hold his hand and micromanage his preparation.

I understand people are getting upset cause it paints AC in a very negative light.

Indeed. It suggests he's either too lazy, too stubborn or too dumb to train properly. That may not be what Riis meant but that's how it comes across to the audience.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Riis' theory makes perfect sense. You use a few different muscle groups so if those aren't fresh when you're making a peak effort, that effort is gonna be weaker.

It would also explain weaker flat TTs

Yes, it makes sense that if Contador is climbing out of the saddle even while following the Sky train pace, he won't have as much left to accelerate. The issue here is that one, I personally haven't noticed he is out the saddle more now and two, Riis suggests that's a matter of training while Contador has trained in the saddle a lot. Let's assume that he is indeed out the saddle more and earlier now, the most logical explanation would be that (as Riis says) he does not have the power required to follow while seated but that is more than likely down to a physical decline rather than training (contrary to what Riis says).
Riis wants to find an explanation for the pink elephant in the room but looks past the most glaringly obvious one.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Hoping for flashback performance tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

Flo: Not to mention his statement come across as Riis "made" Alberto. As much as i like Bjarne his ego always was HC-cathegory level.

Riis' theory makes perfect sense. You use a few different muscle groups so if those aren't fresh when you're making a peak effort, that effort is gonna be weaker.

It would also explain weaker flat TTs

It does but i wouldnt be too sure the answer is due to "wrong training" or neglecting Riis advices.

 

[Netserk]

It really is impressive how much some people can read into statements.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

It really is impressive how much some people can read into statements.

What would your interpretation be?

 

[Netserk]

That it's perhaps more a critique of those who train Alberto than of Alberto himself.

That, and that he was in a position where he 'had' to give a reason as to why he isn't as good as just a few years ago. He obviously can't say anything regarding clinic, and I do think that he doesn't want to think that Alberto is just too old and can't compete any longer, but that this isn't his 'true' level as of now and that he can still improve ahead of next year. So wishful thinking, probably also in how big a role he played himself. Who knows.

I think it's traceable in various amount of his analyses no matter the rider or team in question and as such not aimed at Alberto.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

That it's perhaps more a critique of those who train Alberto than of Alberto himself.

That, and that he was in a position where he 'had' to give a reason as to why he isn't as good as just a few years ago. He obviously can't say anything regarding clinic, and I do think that he doesn't want to think that Alberto is just too old and can't compete any longer, but that this isn't his 'true' level as of now and that he can still improve ahead of next year. So wishful thinking, probably also in how big a role he played himself. Who knows.

I think it's traceable in various amount of his analyses no matter the rider or team in question and as such not aimed at Alberto.

This is true as well. We only get a take on Riis' probably biased opinion, even though the argument seems reasonable.

We don't know the other side of the story. We don't know Contador's reasons for doing this.

 

[LaFlorecita]

We don't even know if Contador is doing "this".

 

[Climber123]

So where WILL Bertie attack tomorrow and where SHOULD he attack?

 

[Matteo.]

Let's see what happens. But i have the feeling he's worse than he was in PN

 

[Jelantik]

in hindsight, contador seemed to ride on the saddle a lot more while following sky's train. On the other topic in regards of Contador's age, i guess if Froome ends up winning his 6ths TDF win at the age of 35, then everyone would stop saying that Contador is old. Maybe what Bjarne said about the training has merit.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So where WILL Bertie attack tomorrow and where SHOULD he attack?

Where will he attack - have a feeling he might not even attack, if the tempo is too high he'll just barely hang on.
Where should he attack - if he has the legs, with 3-4km to go on Mont du Chat, if he goes too early he risks blowing himself up. If he doesn't have the legs, it doesn't really matter.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

in hindsight, contador seemed to ride on the saddle a lot more while following sky's train. On the other topic in regards of Contador's age, i guess if Froome ends up winning his 6ths TDF win at the age of 35, then everyone would stop saying that Contador is old. Maybe what Bjarne said about the training has merit.

For the 100th time, every rider is different. Chris Horner was at his best when he was in his 40s. That doesn't mean no rider can decline before the age of 40.
Most riders peak between 28 and 32. I'd say it's possible Berto even peaked earlier. So yes, at 34 going on 35, he is likely "old".

 

[Climber123]

Re: Re:

So where WILL Bertie attack tomorrow and where SHOULD he attack?

Where will he attack - have a feeling he might not even attack, if the tempo is too high he'll just barely hang on.
Where should he attack - if he has the legs, with 3-4km to go on Mont du Chat, if he goes too early he risks blowing himself up. If he doesn't have the legs, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah hopefully he will attack somehow. Haven't seen one since March!

 

[Climber123]

Maybe he will attack with the heart like in TdF '15. Underrated performance that one.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

I am just angry at all this negativity. Need Bertie to proof us all wrong tomorrow. Enough is enough, he was excellent in spring I know he has it in him.

I don't think we are being negative. I think it's more about being realistic. Up to this point he didn't look convincing. Even his last interview. Of course we hope we won't see him getting drop (again). Today, he's already grimacing on cat 1. Well, he said this TDF is about consistently and attrition, that's why he prepared the way he was, so tomorrow will be the exam for him.

 

[Climber123]

Re: Re:

I am just angry at all this negativity. Need Bertie to proof us all wrong tomorrow. Enough is enough, he was excellent in spring I know he has it in him.

I don't think we are being negative. I think it's more about being realistic. Up to this point he didn't look convincing. Even his last interview. Of course we hope we won't see him getting drop (again). Today, he's already grimacing on cat 1. Well, he said this TDF is about consistently and attrition, that's why he prepared the way he was, so tomorrow will be the exam for him.

Sure, but until the ship's copious amounts of time he is still in the game. I rewatched Wednesdays stage and he certainly wasn't terrible. If he fails tomorrow though he is in trouble. At this moment I am still confident for a podium.

 

[portugal11]

This tour is already over. I don't care if contador makes second or tenth, I just want him in yellow in paris and he lost his biggest chance in 2014. He would have killed nibali

 

[Valv.Piti]

Why to do you feel the need to take it so personally and get worked up over such a little thing? Its just a theory (altho stated as a fact) that Riis has repeated numerous times. So my guess is he knows what is is talking about. At least to some extent. I posted that exact thing a month ago in this thread. In theory, it makes sense, but we obviously don't know if its correct. And I also do think Riis realises that his decline obviously also is age-related, not only training-related.

 

[lenric]

Problem is, if all remaining things remain, at least, equal (as in, both his and his rivals form), he'll still lose a minimum of 1 minute in the ITT. That would put him around 2 minutes behind Froome.
And there are only 4 mountain stages remaining, apart from tomorrow's one.