Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[DFA123]

Re:

Also, if you look at the names of riders ahead of him, those aren't just the best of the best who are beating him. Many of them he has ridden against competitively earlier in the year.

Yeah, something's certainly not right about him at the moment. I don't think he can compete at the highest level any more, but he's still significantly better than he showed today. He looks like a guy who has returned from injury without enough miles in his legs and with no racing sharpness - something has gone badly wrong somewhere with his training i think.

 

[rune1107]

Re: Re:

I'm entitled to have my own opinion. Just like everyone here. But you really think you are the only one who can have an opinion about him.

Just like Contador, you're sour and past your prime.

I just think it's extremely disgusting for someone to feel entitled to tell a rider he should retire, especially such a big champion as Contador.

Of course he decides when he should retire. I'm not his boss. But when i think of Alberto Contador, i remember his beautiful mountain raids in the Tour 2009, Giro 2011, Vuelta 2012 or Vuelta 2014. Or his mythical performances on Verbier, Plateau de Beille, Etna, Tirreno '14.....

Now i see a rider who's extremely vulnerable. Who rides on a way too heavy gear, and drops with every significant attack.

It's makes me sad

I understand but in the end it's all part of the game.
One thing I know for sure is that cycling will be less interesting for me without him so I'd rather see him like this than not see him at all.

The problem is that without shape, he is not the exciting rider we all know and love him for. He is starting to just see how long he can follow, and then letting go when they accelerate. Today I believe we lost the final hope of a great champion returning to his prime. All the great memories he has brought us are more than anyone could ask of. I hope he rides for another year, if he wants to, but it won't be the Alberto we are used to seeing. Hopefully, we will get one last attack in the Tour from him.

 

[bajbar]

Re:

No shame in being past your prime at ~35 and after 10 seasons at the top of the sport. It happens to everybody eventually. Contador can still do great if he manages to take an honest look at himself and refocus.

As for retiring or not, there's not one single, valid approach to the whole legacy thing. If you feel you should retire while still at a good level, you do that. If you just want to do what you love for as long as you can, that's fine too. Jordan's legacy wasn't diminished in the slightest by his stint playing with the Washington Wizards.

Indeed. If age catches up, nothing you can do about it. But to keep publicly announcing that you are better than ever, that you are going to win the Tour, that you have a special prepariation... That is the thing I don't like...

And really, while doing extensive hours of training and tests, when do you acually realise... yikes, I am really terrible. I can't come close to the times I did three years ago. I mean I wouldn't dare announcing how good I am if I knew what the reallity is... I just don't get what he gets from that??

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He was 4'30 back in the AdH stage, and he wasn 2nd in GC.

Wow, I don't remember that at all. Well, I still don't see them letting him go. Maybe he'll get some freedom for stage 17 and 18 if he loses more time next week.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Also, if you look at the names of riders ahead of him, those aren't just the best of the best who are beating him. Many of them he has ridden against competitively earlier in the year.

Yeah, something's certainly not right about him at the moment. I don't think he can compete at the highest level any more, but he's still significantly better than he showed today. He looks like a guy who has returned from injury without enough miles in his legs and with no racing sharpness - something has gone badly wrong somewhere with his training i think.

Yeah. If I'm gonna guess, based on what he does and what the others show in the Tour and in the spring, is that Contador trains too hard for the spring, is pretty good there, then proceeds to either overtrain for the Dauphine or rest too much, cause ideal Tour buildup doesn't have you go into pre Dauphine training that fatigued.

That would be my explanation. Fact that he crashed and gives that as the reason doesn't change that, though we can't know the effect that two crashes had on him. I doubt he'd be winning the Tour with ideal prep though.

Another year, another what if. It's infuriating.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

One theory I've been thinking about is that maybe AC knew he had no real chance of winning, even before signing with Trek, but after all the pain cycling has brought him (and it has; he has spoken bitterly about pro cycling before), he wanted to milk it for what its worth. A big f u to pro cycling.
Although, i admit, that would be very out of character. Just a thought.

This thought has crossed my mind as well. Although I think it's fair play to him if he has done that, if you've got enough credit in the bank from 5 years at the top, and another 5 years amongst the challengers, that you can get one more big move, then you might as well cash in that credit when you have the chance.

well, another argument to that.. I don't see Contador is a type of rider who wants to retire when he is at the bottom. I think he wants to retire while he is still competitive and at the top. If milking the money is his motivation, then he'll retire while no one even remembers him (just slowly creeping to the sunset) since currently GT performance wise he is getting pummeled by the next generation.

I think that if he wins one more GT, he'll announce his retirement after that. That's the best way for him to leave the sport. Since 2013 he hasn't won TDF, so that door is closed for him, unless some miracles happen in the 3rd week. Vuelta and Giro, he still has a chance. It's not the end of the world for Contador at this TDF. He can stage hunting or try to contest KOM. The question will be, is he motivated to do that? And how to get away from the peloton.

I wonder what will be the talk on the rest day when he signs with Trek.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Ok, so now we now. Contador really is past his prima. Definately now, no excuses.
Wonder if he continues in some other role (stage hunter) or that he retires after this year?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I'm entitled to have my own opinion. Just like everyone here. But you really think you are the only one who can have an opinion about him.

Just like Contador, you're sour and past your prime.

I just think it's extremely disgusting for someone to feel entitled to tell a rider he should retire, especially such a big champion as Contador.

Of course he decides when he should retire. I'm not his boss. But when i think of Alberto Contador, i remember his beautiful mountain raids in the Tour 2009, Giro 2011, Vuelta 2012 or Vuelta 2014. Or his mythical performances on Verbier, Plateau de Beille, Etna, Tirreno '14.....

Now i see a rider who's extremely vulnerable. Who rides on a way too heavy gear, and drops with every significant attack.

It's makes me sad

I understand but in the end it's all part of the game.
One thing I know for sure is that cycling will be less interesting for me without him so I'd rather see him like this than not see him at all.

The problem is that without shape, he is not the exciting rider we all know and love him for. He is starting to just see how long he can follow, and then letting go when they accelerate. Today I believe we lost the final hope of a great champion returning to his prime. All the great memories he has brought us are more than anyone could ask of. I hope he rides for another year, if he wants to, but it won't be the Alberto we are used to seeing. Hopefully, we will get one last attack in the Tour from him.

Next season I think he should screw the GTs and go for an all two week peak at the Italian fall classics, Lombardia and the WC. Sure, it's unlikely to work, but you never know, and it would be a new, fresh and kind of exciting challenge for him rather than riding GTs as a shadow of his former self - which must be really morale destroying.

He might even learn to have fun on the bike again that way.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Ok, so now we now. Contador really is past his prima. Definately now, no excuses.
Wonder if he continues in some other role (stage hunter) or that he retires after this year?

He'll target the Tour next year

 

[benzwire]

Right now he just doesn't look right. As far as him not being able to compete at the top level? He lost Paris-Nice by 2 seconds, was better than Martin, had very close results all spring, etc. I think if he stays for another year, he can still get results. Hell, I bet he can podium in the Vuelta this year. He's not the machine that he was years ago. No shame in that. What I think diminishes his greatness is the excuses that seem to always be there. He is getting older, but 34 is usually not really old in this sport, but everyone is different.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He might even learn to have fun on the bike again that way.

Wow, big assumption there

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

No shame in being past your prime at ~35 and after 10 seasons at the top of the sport. It happens to everybody eventually. Contador can still do great if he manages to take an honest look at himself and refocus.

As for retiring or not, there's not one single, valid approach to the whole legacy thing. If you feel you should retire while still at a good level, you do that. If you just want to do what you love for as long as you can, that's fine too. Jordan's legacy wasn't diminished in the slightest by his stint playing with the Washington Wizards.

Indeed. If age catches up, nothing you can do about it. But to keep publicly announcing that you are better than ever, that you are going to win the Tour, that you have a special prepariation... That is the thing I don't like...

And really, while doing extensive hours of training and tests, when do you acually realise... yikes, I am really terrible. I can't come close to the times I did three years ago. I mean I wouldn't dare announcing how good I am if I knew what the reallity is... I just don't get what he gets from that??

I guess it depends on what tests exactly he's talking about. Just saying "tests" doesn't prove anything. If nothing else, one of the downsides of growing old is you tend to become more irregular, so even if his performance and values on a good day are still great, there's going to be more days when you're just bad on the road. In Contador's case however, I think it'll also be very hard for him to do the whole "taking an honest look at himself" thing. His mentality has helped him win some races he should have lost, but that same winning mentality might well be an obstacle now to continue his career with a different role.

 

[movingtarget]

Next year I think he will do the Giro and Vuelta and then probably retire. Bit late for him to consider riding the classsics. Some bad luck today but it was even worse for others.

 

[Carols]

I've seen it happen to many times...... Cycling is a Cruel sport and it never ends nicely for the very best who once soared away from the rest. Always a Legend!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No shame in being past your prime at ~35 and after 10 seasons at the top of the sport. It happens to everybody eventually. Contador can still do great if he manages to take an honest look at himself and refocus.

As for retiring or not, there's not one single, valid approach to the whole legacy thing. If you feel you should retire while still at a good level, you do that. If you just want to do what you love for as long as you can, that's fine too. Jordan's legacy wasn't diminished in the slightest by his stint playing with the Washington Wizards.

Indeed. If age catches up, nothing you can do about it. But to keep publicly announcing that you are better than ever, that you are going to win the Tour, that you have a special prepariation... That is the thing I don't like...

And really, while doing extensive hours of training and tests, when do you acually realise... yikes, I am really terrible. I can't come close to the times I did three years ago. I mean I wouldn't dare announcing how good I am if I knew what the reallity is... I just don't get what he gets from that??

I've said it before, it's possible he still reaches 2014 numbers in training. He just can't push those numbers after several hours in the saddle anymore. It's obvious when you compare his MTT's with his regular mountain stage results

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Ok, so now we now. Contador really is past his prima. Definately now, no excuses.
Wonder if he continues in some other role (stage hunter) or that he retires after this year?

Prime ended years ago.

Don't see Contador hanging on for too long if he doesn't believe he can do anything anymore.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

No shame in being past your prime at ~35 and after 10 seasons at the top of the sport. It happens to everybody eventually. Contador can still do great if he manages to take an honest look at himself and refocus.

As for retiring or not, there's not one single, valid approach to the whole legacy thing. If you feel you should retire while still at a good level, you do that. If you just want to do what you love for as long as you can, that's fine too. Jordan's legacy wasn't diminished in the slightest by his stint playing with the Washington Wizards, people were just happy to have the chance to see him continue doing his thing even if at a lower level.

He should target smaller stage races and go stage hunting in GTs if he can no longer win them.

 

[benzwire]

Re: Re:

Next season I think he should screw the GTs and go for an all two week peak at the Italian fall classics, Lombardia and the WC. Sure, it's unlikely to work, but you never know, and it would be a new, fresh and kind of exciting challenge for him rather than riding GTs as a shadow of his former self - which must be really morale destroying.

He might even learn to have fun on the bike again that way.

That would be awesome. He really should. I would love to see him try to expand his palmares and mix it up. I think he really still loves to ride and race. I don't care if he wins another GT, he has enough of those. I would just love to see him ride some of these other races. He brings so much to the races he enters, even if he is not winning like he did in the past. Maybe next year it can be the Contador and Valverde retirement tour. Ripping it up one last year!

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

He should target smaller stage races and go stage hunting in GTs if he can no longer win them.

I think he should try to stay in the GC of GTs only to go kamikaze, blow the race up and make the favourite lose. Every time.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He might even learn to have fun on the bike again that way.

Wow, big assumption there

Just looks to me like he's not enjoying his racing much. Like he's putting too much pressure on himself to be the rider he used to be, rather than the rider he is right now. A change of focus and goals could be good for motivation and give him a chance to ride with little expectations.

Going for the Tour again next year just looks like masochism on his part.

 

[Fergoose]

Re:

Ok, so now we now. Contador really is past his prima. Definately now, no excuses.
Wonder if he continues in some other role (stage hunter) or that he retires after this year?

He hasn't been at the same level since his year out. But with the success of riders like Horner and Valverde in their twilight years I wouldn't rule out the comparatively young Contador just yet.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I'm kinda sad he crashed again. Both because I feel his confidence will have gotten another hit but also because it gives him something to cling onto. I get the feeling he's too stubborn to accept he is past it. Hopefully someone can talk sense into him.
I wonder what Uncle Bjarne will have to say this time? If he had training correctly, would he have been right up there?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Next season I think he should screw the GTs and go for an all two week peak at the Italian fall classics, Lombardia and the WC. Sure, it's unlikely to work, but you never know, and it would be a new, fresh and kind of exciting challenge for him rather than riding GTs as a shadow of his former self - which must be really morale destroying.

He might even learn to have fun on the bike again that way.

That would be awesome. He really should. I would love to see him try to expand his palmares and mix it up. I think he really still loves to ride and race. I don't care if he wins another GT, he has enough of those. I would just love to see him ride some of these other races. He brings so much to the races he enters, even if he is not winning like he did in the past. Maybe next year it can be the Contador and Valverde retirement tour. Ripping it up one last year!

Indeed. He could just have fun in the races and sees where it takes him. If Trek want him to ride a GT then he could stage hunt, get in breaks and just have fun again, or maybe ride for Mollema a bit. Just something different to focus on with less pressure and more freedom.

 

[benzwire]

Re:

I've seen it happen to many times...... Cycling is a Cruel sport and it never ends nicely for the very best who once soared away from the rest. Always a Legend!

Hinault did it right. Many other just don't know when to back away. I guess it's that super competitive mentality. Champions can be their own worst enemy. Oh well, it's their choice.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I've seen it happen to many times...... Cycling is a Cruel sport and it never ends nicely for the very best who once soared away from the rest. Always a Legend!

Hinault did it right. Many other just don't know when to back away. I guess it's that super competitive mentality. Champions can be their own worst enemy. Oh well, it's their choice.

Again, there's no single way to do it right. Bugno kept riding well past his prime and earned a very different kind of respect for that, which came to the fore when he won a stage of the 1998 Vuelta from a breakaway and everybody was like "damn Bugno is class, always was, always will be".